Discussion in 'Portable Vaporizers' started by magicflight, May 16, 2009.
thanks. after looking into it more, i will be avoiding the maud dib because of the brass bowl. to make things worse, i specifically asked the MFLB customer service what metals are used in the maud dib and their reply was just "the pins and screens are made from stainless steel".
im looking at the TRVP and Dynavap right now. probably going to get a dynavap and shove a mighty concentrate pad in the cap. still researching though
@cawshook IMHO the Dynacoil is worth every penny. The DC can crank out bigger tastier clouds than any coil I have ever tried. Its my go to after quartz banger. Its also nice to have a dedicated DV concentrate setup.
@cawshook the brass in the Muad-dip never gets above room temperature and has nothing to do with the act of vaporizing your concentrate.
The brass is 100% cosmetic, it just lines the 'cup' under the "pins and screens" so it's easier to keep it clean.
im considering it for sure, probably will end up ordering it if i get the dynavap (if not initially then later on), but i have a decent amount of crumble and its very "crumbly" so not sure the dynacoil will be able to hold it or if the crumble will just fall through. i was told i could heat the coil to get the crumble to stick, but it sounds like a bit of a pain in the butt. that is kind of why i like the maud-dib. you can easily load anything (crumble/shatter) that isnt super sticky.
one downside to the dynavap is that im also worried about burning myself by putting the heated end in my mouth. I've done stupider things while stoned. I could always use a small water pipe get around that, but i'm looking for something portable.
sorry for all these questions guys i promise i tried the search function, but its not that great and there's a lot of info to go through. i've been trying to research as much as possible, but i cant spend multiple hours everyday researching vapes. if anyone has anymore vapes to suggest i look at, let me know.
thanks. i will reconsider in that case, but still disappointed that they didnt answer the question fully. i understand its not involved in the vaporization process but i did not know how hot the box gets during use and whether the brass heats up as well.
its not easy choosing a vape that is perfect for you when you cant try them out. i appreciate the help
@cawshook Thats why everyone ends up with like 10 vapes!!
I think I remember you asking about crumble. Check out the Humbolt Vape Tech Sai Doughnut coil if you are not familiar. It would be one of the best devices to handle crumble giving you excellent flavor but not huge clouds.
I'm definitely interested in the Maud Dib based on how much I like the LB.
Ten? Only the new guys.....and wimps of course.
It's your duty to support our Makers you know..........
im fine with a device that doesnt produce huge clouds. I look more for efficiency. I will check it out, thnx.
The brass doesn't heat up at all, it' the same temp as the wooden launch box.
The brass would need to be heated near smelting temps for anything to leach off of it so the wood box would be ash long before that happened.
Took a break on a 30 mile bike ride to take two pulls on my LB. One long pull and I put it away for a nicely elevated 15 mile ride back home. That one pull was all I needed.
I took three pulls through the Orbiter. After that I was so happy with the couch, because those hits "floored me". Still love my Launch Boxes
Color me a newbie and hooked on the MFLB! Someone posted up a 'thing' that caught my eye... turned out to be a simple vape-funnel. Asked a few questions and started looking at cheap portable vapes. Somehow the MFLB came into view and that was that. Found one with a V1 PA and made an offer. The poor thing was not in great shape; carbon encrusted and a hole in the screen; old cells; basically 'tired'. But it was enough to tell me this was the right tool for me. And I inquired about that 'Limited Lifetime Warranty' with regard to this box's condition not expecting much. It took MF a couple of days and I thought maybe they were having a good laugh at my claim. Turns out they had a tough decision as carbon encrustation is not functionally flaw. I guess the hole in the screen is. Of course I went through the process of dismantling the LB and waiting yet a few more day for the reply. And now I await the arrival of a new LB.
So what would you do? You just discovered vaping ...and liked it! You have perfect combustion tools at hand that have served you for years. The warranty was assured after a few days but now the wait with no LB in hand... would it be days? Weeks? ...yes.
What started out a curiosity with a $100 budget is turning out to be an investment. The initial buy was pretty much what a new kit was. Got the extras such as the metal box and the grinder (which rocks BTW), and the V1.0 PA so overall, this wasn't too bad with the replacement coming. Still would have been under a bill. And it turns out the cells I had were perfect temp-regulators since they were well used. So, for under $100 I was introduced to vaping herb and introduced to Magic-Flight. All good experiences in a short quest.
How long did it take to go absolutely stupid not having my MFLB? Day 1 - Back to combustion; Day 2 - threatened with combustion again... fired up Google; 'where to buy MFLB'. Turns out a shop 2 miles from here had one old unit on display. It was a recent model with the bag and a pair of crusty batteries in Walnut. Made a deal and haven't looked at combustion again, except to get use to new batteries. It's been almost a week and the screen in the new LB still looks new. And a spare LB in the mail should I ever have to give up another MFLB. You might have guessed... I'm closer to 2 bills now ;]
And that may not be the last of the relation w/ MF. I promptly order a pair of 'new' cells! Along with a spare brush and a spare glass straw. I need to throw away all the old cells so I also ordered the PowerEx Pro cells. Why am I not using the V1 PA? That's another long story not worth expanding here. It may well be available soon. Turns out the new battery charger with the new LB has an AC/car adapter port! And I happened to have both! So that and 6 new batteries should far outweigh dragging an adapter along.
And now I want the Orbiter ;p
I find this topic interesting. I was trying to find out what MF used for their AC adapters just to get a ballpark of what the MFLB draws with a NiMH cell.
I've stated above that I received a V1.0 PA with my used LB. I quickly determined the min and max voltages of the unloaded output. The max was up around 1.9V and the bottom was around 1.1V IIRC. I have not done any load measurements as yet.
What prompted me to comment was an interesting finding on the AC adapter ratings. And I know my PA is used, but the adapter/wall wart I received is only rated to 12v@1250ma. And it will combust herb! That means the most it will deliver is around 15 watts. I also know the head of the unit gets quite warm, so there are losses there too. I can certainly provide more power, but do I need to? It keeps up perfectly with brand new batteries. And yes, it looks identical to all the images I've seen.
Edit: I had to modify one of my wallwart adapters to get some measurements... my 12V, 1250ma wallwart puts out a solid 2 amps and then some and the voltage stays up at 11.7VDC. So this v1.0 PA device will easily deliver 24+ watts.
Can anyone with a V1.0 PA confirm the output rating as marked on their AC adapter?
Admins, please feel free to merge... No edit option.
It has been barely 2 weeks now that I've hooked myself on vaping. Or better said, when I stopped combusting. I find it odd that I don't miss the 'other' high; I don't miss the ritual; and I certainly don't miss the stink-eye from the missus over the lingering spent smoke smell.
I wanted to give an updated review of what I've found out about using the MFLB with some comments as a beginning vapor'r. First of all, I've placed a couple of orders with MF. I've received my warranty LB which is now on 'backup duty' in case I ever have to give up my Walnut LB. And I've prepared my disabled LB to try concentrates but hadn't obtained any yet. I may wait until this lung issue is identified with more confidence. Also received the Orbiter which I have yet to use. Maybe you have already figured out that my private space is not conducive to openly vaping or combusting. You'd be right. The stalemate is a lot more manageable with the vape option. Still, raw cannabis and smoke-breath will not be tolerated. Vape breath is acceptable apparently. There are two schools of thought on this kind of arrangement. I'll leave it to your imagination.
The Launch Box itself: I am very glad I started this journey referencing the barbarian age of vaping. The Launch Box is somewhat unique in how the mechanisms of vaping was implemented. I fully appreciate the evolution of bringing hot air through your source matter rather than contacting the source matter on a hot surface. Not having experience [yet] in the nuances of other vape paraphernalia, I will provide some comparisons but only in reference to gleaning and applying the wealth of information found here and elsewhere. I am still very happy that I started with the MFLB. This journey has only just begun.
Stealth and convenience are not synonymous with the MFLB. This device falls more in the steampunk and ritual category. And I love the Dune-theme behind this company's product line. Bottom line, Magic-Flight put together an idea worthy of a patent while the simplicity of the device is stunning. As a designer, I see this as genius at work.
How much do you vape in a day? Do you find your daily loading efforts significant? Is maintenance a chore or simply a moment of time? Do you get everything out of your source matter? Those are the comparison questions I can come up with now that I understand a little more about the subject matter. And I ask them with a purpose, not to shout out about the LB but to know if these are real advantages as I see them. I know how much I was combusting in a day which added up to 1/2 to 1 gram of flower per day. This has been my routine for years when legal use was granted in our state. This has been a boon for my chronic medical conditions that I've suffered with for better than half my life. For the past two weeks I've used less than 1/2 gram per day in the LB, often only a couple of trenches. A trench is a solid 0.1 grams of finish-ground dry cannabis. I had started with just finishing a trench and waiting an hour or so for the next one. All too often I'd never make it to that next one for many hours and a third was way more than I needed. And as for chronic medical conditions, so far so good. One element is key to making this a full success and I think I am getting a handle on that as well. So basically I've cut my usage down to 1/2 or better than before. Never thought that vaping would pay for itself, but that is what the data shows.
As to the level of effort required for the Launch Box there are mixed feelings but maybe not as bad as I imagine or as good as it can get. The first obstacle is the grind. The stash must be free from moisture. Even the sticky is a problem [...never thought I'd say that out loud!] but the sticky will remain! So I do a ritual of breaking up nice buds and sifting them through a strainer when they have dried overnight from the initial grind. This is much simpler than using the finish grinder from MF. Another cool device for the ritual, but certainly not required. My hold-out on the finish grinder is that you have to do something with the stems that remain in the grinder, and that was a turn-off for me. Also the fact that I can load a trench more consistently with prepared source matter than with the finish grinder. Therefore, I shall remove source matter consistency as a pro or con. I always get a picture in my head of a 6" cola being dropped in a pop-corn maker and locking yourself in a closet with it. I suspect every device has a preferred grind in mind associated with ease-of-use. The finish grinder gets a neutral rating because if you need it, you need it now. But general processing of source matter is still a matter of preference. Once this preparation routine has been established, loading the LB is a breeze and spillage is absolutely minimal due to the extra space in the vape chamber.
Maintaining a MFLB appears to be very simple. A brush and a blow and ready for the next load. Okay, it has only been 2 weeks and the screen looks new with this simple maintenance technique but it is suggested that some carbon will build up over time. Then one breaks out the IPA and a careful process of cleaning without damaging the screen. And to be sure, MF has you covered in case you get carried away with that cleaning. Bottom line, that screen is a lot tougher than one would think. Just stick with the original brush and you shouldn't have issues. Don't pick at the o-ring either!
When is that source matter fully 'expressed'? This is a biggy with the Launch Box. As stated before, I was sitting down to finish a trench at each sessions. Then I started enjoying the flavors. The LB is great at storing that 0.1 grams of material for later use. The one niggle I can share is the fact that some very small portion of the load can sneak out the intake air path. Just a fact but nothing serious unless your spillage can alert a LEO that may have something to say about that. I noticed the 'odd' sprinkling of fine leaf matter on a table when I figured it out where it was coming from. But here is where MF and the LB seem to be loosing ground. And it is not so much due to the mechanics [...and the horde of alternatives!] as the loss of a technology. The NiMH cells originally termed 'Glyph cells' for their logo stamp on the bottom of the cell seem to have died out and replaced with Li-Ion. But the LB doesn't work with higher voltages. It needs that raw high short circuit current of the Ni-MH cells. These original cells easily provide 20+ watts of near-instant warms. MF means it when they say 5 seconds to begin a pull. Those older cells are really something. I ordered a set of their replacement cells from MF and I can tell you they are not even close to the Glyphs. But there is a bright side to this that I'll try to get to. I needed to put this background there because people using LB's with crappy cells are missing out on some of the power of this device. Reference for me is 2x very used glyph cells; 2x new Glyph cells that came with the current LB; and 2x cells from MF with Powerex stamped on them. They new Glyph cells will combust my source matter! The weaker cells are perfect to get the basics vaped from the source matter minimizing the risk of combustion. The first pull is that sweet trichome flavor; the second pull delivers they first real potency surge; then the 3rd and consecutive pulls are increasingly more potent and will eventually become harsh. Now consider getting to this level with a weak cell. You will get a nice browning of the source matter. Then I swap to the super-cell. Now these draws are harsh and they deliver the most potency. This level of bake will get you a very dark ABV and the chances of combustion is much greater. Mind you that I do put ABV matter to culinary use. Therefore, the not-quite-finished status is acceptable for those days when the final heavy draw or the hassle of extracting it is more than I want to deal with. So the question stands for me... when is a load actually spent?
That covers the 4 questions as other compare their vape with this dinosaur, as it has already been referred to recently. But there are a few observation I wish to share as well. Gleaning vape construction, I notice there is very little in the way of keeping particulate from entering your lungs with portables. One of the things i noticed about the LB is that the fine screen is what stands between your lungs and the plant matter. Still a huge aperture for what is considered a safe size for particulate matter but a far cry denser than the screens I am seeing in other devices. Barring filtering and other means to manage this by the user, how well do other units do when it comes to passing particulate through their screens and filters? This would be the the second concern I would address with any vape device right after the toxicity of materials used in the heat path or where temperatures may be elevated.
...admin; 10,000 character limit reached.
There is one annoyance about the LB that I will share. And it is likely something that makes or breaks longevity of the box. Basically, good herb is never 'dry'. It can be devoid of moisture but the resins still keep things stuck together. That means that after the 1st draw, the matter in the trench does tend to adhere to the screen itself, and basically becomes 'unshakable'. Follow on draws will generally shake these loose but if not, you do have a change to generate a hot-spot that will lead to combustion. Therefore I find it mandatory to intervene with the brush just to break up the bits now 'stuck' to the screen. Part of the ritual and not a big deal, but one that each user will learn to contend with. Basically, shaking a LB and ensuring free-moving materials in the trench make for a really good draw. This is especially true for the second draw where shaking during the draw just makes this vape shine to no end! Super tasty and effective cloud if you want! You could empty the trench after this and call it done. But there is at least one more very good draw after that. But to get everything... you'll be sucking on it for a few more draws before the really heavy stuff comes out of the flower.
I've flamed-out the first MFLB twice; the new one once. Not bad. The cherry did not start at the screen but in the load itself. No damage but what a horrible flavor. This is a good reason to have characterized cells... or you could use the power adapter and set the temps... but I am not a fan of the power adapter as yet. I got it working with a Li-Ion battery source, but the convenience of cells is too great.
In case I wasn't clear before, the MFLB was a perfect starting point for me. I can go from here and see what surfaces. The question of particulate matter filtering is one that I may have trouble gleaning from other reports and reviews. Anyone care to weigh in on this concern?
As far as I'm concerned, the load is spent when it stops producing vapor.
Definitely need to look at some different tech to know when that state is reached. I know I can get more of something out but it is no longer pleasant at that point. I'm thinking the spent dry flower is just singeing on the hot screen.
Oh, it's not particularly pleasant to get the last bits out. You're in overdone popcorn territory by that point. But your herb won't get black unless you are overheating.
The line between full extraction and accidentally burning your herb is a very fine one, especially with a manual vape like this. But with practice, you can definitely learn to do it.
In all my vapes, it's not done until the herb stops producing vapor. With conduction vapes like this though, you have to learn how to ride that fine line without combusting.
I suggest you consider buying a Vapor Genie. Low in cost, very effective and flexible. You are in very direct control of the heat, and being convection it responds instantly to changes. If you let it it will teach you a lot about vaping. For many of us it's 'a main vape', for others relegated to backup status (you should always have a backup for mission critical gear.....).
VapMan is a similar unit, although conduction, also well worth considering. It can be very frugal with the goods and is a personal favorite of mine.
Best wishes in your explorations. The goal is well worth the effort.
Both Vapman and Vapor Genie have been on my list of vapes I plan to eventually get.
Thank you both for the great insight. Knowing this is a dance helps immensely.
You're quite welcome. Remember the secret to winning/surviving it 'when the music stops, keep dancing'.
A reading on the v1.0 PA to the LB:
... okay, that's suppose to be an image Imageview is a sanctioned site?
Modnote: Edited to display image
FUN FACT: Mflb used to be a supplier for the Vapman in NA. It's also a coincidence that the accessories and stems fit both units!
Also that performance is VASTLY boosted with the finishing grinder (coffee grinder or card grinder do the same in a pinch) in both vaporizers.
I also love that you can pack so much material in a single trench and sip on it throughout the day.
As for the Vapman, I love the lack of stirring since it's so little material being sandwiched in with a small mix of convection. With it's high heat it is the king of hash with no additional mods (tied with Vaponic)
The launch box is a device that I wish I got when it first came out. I'd have a lot less Vapes personally. My first LB was a maple that I rescued from kijiji that had a tires battery and a dead one. Ended up loving it so much that I got the Tri wood..... shortly after they made the Canada flag ones... either way still a relevant vape that's aged well compared to its competitors Wispr or Pax1 and Davinci.
Just some information and thoughts; as always
420 in the 204!
Too funny. Well, this is my only vape ATM. The PA is almost a must to get dark ABV out of it. Figured out the trick to combustion issues - remove power while drawing - just bake; shake; draw; bake shake draw... I'm well kitted out by now. Batteries are a real issue. Their glyph cells appear to be aged-out of a useful life. trying to get some real info from MF on this. I like using batteries but I want a full bake, you know?
I do pulverize my source matter by forcing it through a screen. It also protects the screen from stems.
You have really thrown yourself into this, and it's fun to watch, but maybe i should attempt to assist instead of letting you flail around indefinitely. ..
I have a powerex battery charger which has a feature called 'break-in' which can be used to rejuvenate ni-mh batteries. I have found this feature really does bring some old batteries back to peak performance, or very much closer to it. It has worked with mflb batteries for me. Maybe this trick could work on the old glyphs you have? It takes about 36 hours of slow charge/discharge cycles.
Other chargers have similar features. A french sounding brand like le cross or something like that maybe, too.
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