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The Liquidizer Herb2Vapor System - Safety Butane Extractor & Mini-vaporizer

Discussion in 'Portable Vaporizers' started by Liquidizer, Apr 14, 2013.

  1. vaporonly

    vaporonly Well-Known Member

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    407
    couldn't agree more...I think this is an interesting product but I just can't balance this idea of hanging it out a window suggestion with the company trying to make butane extractions safer.

    the whole point of the device was to put it in a safe area away from potential ignition sources and have the user leave the area to further eliminate the chance for danger right?

    why put the danger zone next to your apt building?

    thanks for the info on the e-mix stuff.
     
    Cheerful Dub likes this.
  2. Liquidizer

    Liquidizer Manufacturer Manufacturer

    Messages:
    58
    Safety was our core concern in creating the Liquidizer, window use is designed as a convenience for homeowners and we explicitly warn apartment tenents not extract from the window. On page 13 of our instructions, before making any mention of window use we have a very visible disclaimer stating: "WINDOW USE DISCLAIMER: do not use the Liquidizer suspended from a window over two stories in height, or that presents a falling hazard to pedestrians below. Do not use from windows in multi-tenant buildings as cigarette butts may be tossed out of upper story windows. Do not use from windows within 50 feet of air conditioning units due to spark hazard from compressors. Do not use in conditions of high wind or extreme weather. Use in the evenings or night to avoid direct sunlight."

    That having been said, and largely owing to the feedback from this forum, we will shortly discontinue the cable and nylon ropes from our standard kit. We appreciate your feedback and take it seriously.
     
  3. vaporonly

    vaporonly Well-Known Member

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    407
    sounds like the instructions do cover the potential dangers of the window option but i think your decision to stop offering the cable and ropes is a good one...if someone wants to try it with their own hanging materials then it's on them...

    have you tried using some everclear in the collection beaker? the discussion earlier was about purging completely, which blasting into warm everclear or re-disolving bho into later and then evap/double boiling off will do.
     
  4. Breathemetal

    Breathemetal Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    The Mitten
    cool to see a company take what we say and make a positive safer change!
    +1 for Liquidizer
    i'll be getting one of these as soon as i get a new pad...need more room to actual utilize this

    i love bho, hard to get a steady supply around here.
    this can change that for me!
     
    poonman and Yoshimattsu like this.
  5. Wicksy

    Wicksy Member

    Messages:
    31
    Location:
    Canada, Ont
    I think I may be in love ... Definitely time to start saving up for one of these baby's. I'll be able to be that much more stealthy vaping at school! But ... I still love my oil rig, would you be able to drop a dab from the syringe onto a T-nail? Making these QWISO batches takes way to many steps to get a really nice end product, this would simplify everything.
     
  6. Yoshimattsu

    Yoshimattsu Well-Known Member

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    193
    So with winterized "virgin" oil then mixed with the EJ, we can use it in larger quantities without the flavor degredation, in the included clearomizers? Could I load maybe a day's worth of "juice" into the clearomizer and be satisfied with the flavor?
     
    mvapes likes this.
  7. darkrom

    darkrom Great Scott!

    Messages:
    3,586
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    I've got one on the way.

    I'll try a few things many different ways when I get the time to experiment. I'll be trying winterization for sure at some point. I'm hoping to try this in the ejuice form and then also try making just pure oil without any additives. Then I'll try the pure extract in a cera EO (which I can't afford for a bit) and then compare that with the ejuice.

    Ejuice WILL be more stealthy. I'm thinking of saving the ejuice for the stealthy things like travel and concerts and vaping straight shatter or whatever concentrate I get at home other ways.

    I'm so excited. No longer will I be at the mercy of others to TRY and create some safe BHO.
     
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  8. mvapes

    mvapes Surrounded by the healthy!

    Messages:
    4,473
    Location:
    On Shakey Ground
    haywood, I'm from NYC originally too. Can you get roof access in your building? It literally only takes 10 minutes to run the extraction.
     
  9. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    12,350
    Location:
    Left Coast
    I think this is an extremely wise thing to do. I'd suggest you go a step further in fact, dump the lot and replace it with 'don't extract within XX feet of a building'. Much like your current '50 feet from an air conditioner'.

    My current house has no basement, only a crawl space. Nothing down there of interest (except the spiders....). My last house had one, being on an upslope lot. A lovely concrete pad with walls around it for the gas to collect on.....with the house heater and hot water heater, both gas fired with full time pilot lights. The house is, of course, ringed with vents at ground level so the Butane vapor can get in easily to flow to the low point and collect. If I let the vapor out the bathroom window (the logical place I think) this would be in a six foot square 'sun well' in the side of the building facing West (into the prevailing wind for the left coast). With 3 such vents six feet below the widow at the bottom of the well. The vapor would be guaranteed to find it's way in to some level.

    I say if it's too dangerous to do within 50 feet on an A/C unit, it's dangerous within the same distance to the stuff under that house. Or other ignition sources you don't recognize right off.

    Safety, in general, is a tough nut to crack if the stakes are this high. Dropping the 'hang it out the window' idea is a good step forward IMO. However there's going to be a lot of pretty uneducated folks using this (some of them 'under the influence' as it were). Sound judgement about the dangers is not a given. Liability aside, I'm sure we'd all be bummed out if there was an accident this way? By it's nature, venting Butane is a dangerous thing to do (and often illegal for that reason). Some will understand that, few, I think, will give proper concern.

    Life is a compromise.

    OF
     
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  10. mvapes

    mvapes Surrounded by the healthy!

    Messages:
    4,473
    Location:
    On Shakey Ground
    I agree with OF, I think you guy's are headed in the right direction. Personally, I have a storage shed in my yard that isn't used at all due to a large hole in the side. I go in there to extract, I set up my Liquidizer, leave the door open for extra ventilation and go on the house for 10 minutes to allow the allow the process to finish.

    I wish there was a something to include with the kit like a poncho. I may be crazy but would it work for people in specific scenarios to have some like a cover (poncho) with a hole that allows access to the release handle? This could somehow catch butane and prevent it from making to your vents or anyplace for that matter?

    Just asking, I may be totally way off.
     
  11. Quetzalcoatl

    Quetzalcoatl SPACE GOD 宇宙

    Messages:
    4,482
    Location:
    SDCA, 3rd Planet
    Only when you're pushing 90%... Oil has a special place in my heart! Plus it's incredibly refined, need less hits, and a incomparable taste. I would like to see stronger tinctures in the future that don't require special setups, as I don't see me giving up on my TV Ultra until I'm pushing daisies. I don't want to carry around a pocketful of carts to use when I'm out!
     
    ataxian, Tom Funk and OF like this.
  12. darkrom

    darkrom Great Scott!

    Messages:
    3,586
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    This would work just fine on the TV products though, just don't mix the ejuice. My first run with this I'm only mixing some of it with ejuice and the rest I'm going to play with to purify and get great BHO. Unless the ejuice setup blows me away I plan on stopping with the pure concentrate most of the time. Its all personal preference.
     
    Tom Funk and OF like this.
  13. vaporonly

    vaporonly Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    407

    butane gas is heavier then air so it sinks, and collects in low spots...whatever containment system you setup would have to take that into effect.

    also anytime you 'capture' butane gas you pretty much have an explosion in a bag and one static spark could mean a boom!

    fans blowing the gas away from buildings and vents might be the way to go
     
  14. mvapes

    mvapes Surrounded by the healthy!

    Messages:
    4,473
    Location:
    On Shakey Ground
    ^^^this is the kind of chat we need here^^^

    I'm sure we could figure out something, between all of us. These guy's are still developing and maybe we could put our heads together and come-up with a solution.
     
    momofthegoons and Tom Funk like this.
  15. darkrom

    darkrom Great Scott!

    Messages:
    3,586
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    I'm wondering what you guys think about this idea. In the dish that you blast into put some iso already. Blast the BHO directly into a pool of iso. Will this help me purge it easier? Then just evaporate it as if it were QWISO?
     
  16. vaporonly

    vaporonly Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    407

    yes it will help you purge the butane easier BUT if you just evap off the ISO there will still be some residual ISO in it.

    many people prefer everclear for this because it is safe for human consumption so any residual leftovers won't harm a person like iso or the petro solvents that are used in extraction.

    if you just evap off butane or iso or even everclear, what happens is past a certain point the amber like oil begins to trap the solvent in it's 'stickyness' so that it can't evap out. Like i mentioned everclear is safe for consumption any residual it leaves won't be harmful.

    when you dissolve bho into everclear (or iso) then the butane that was trapped is released.
     
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  17. darkrom

    darkrom Great Scott!

    Messages:
    3,586
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    I can't get everclear from ANY of my surrounding states :/
     
  18. Quetzalcoatl

    Quetzalcoatl SPACE GOD 宇宙

    Messages:
    4,482
    Location:
    SDCA, 3rd Planet
    I meant for me to switch from oil pen to tincture pen. I'm not so sure that this stuff, when mixed, is more potent than just oil in my DART. That's what I was getting at. I could just easily drip it into the DART or AVA or even just buy a carto and put it on my Ultra.

    I'm curious to hear why Liquidizer thinks juice is the way to go.
     
  19. vaporonly

    vaporonly Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    407
    i have read that you can have everclear shipped to you in states that don't sell it, but i'm not sure because I can go into just about any grocery store or liquor store here and buy it.

    good luck!
     
  20. Liquidizer

    Liquidizer Manufacturer Manufacturer

    Messages:
    58
    Yes, with Virgin Ejuice you'll be able to enjoy two to three times as much Ejuice/vapor before the flavor degradation catches up to the atomizer. There will still be some degradation, you are still working with a natural extract with a wide range of compounds, albeit significantly less wax. Something we've experimented with it during winterization, is after the first filtering, collecting the dewaxed extract / ethanol mix back in the syringe, cleaning off the stainless steel filter, and returning everything to the freezer again for a second filtration the next day and then even a third. The amount of wax removed during the second and third filtration is minimal, but the result was an Ejuice you can vape almost until the coils are red and still enjoy the flavor. Due to the diminishing returns and effort involved, we haven't mentioned it in our instructions yet, but we've heard of people purging wax under a vacuum for 12 straight hours so better to spend your time wax filtering rather than purging.

    You are absolutely correct that extracting into ISO then leaves you with the trouble of purging ISO. The solution we provide to "purging" problem is EJmix and going liquid. EJmix prevents the oil from becoming waxy and "sticky" allowing other solvents with lower boiling points (such as butane, ISO, ethanol) to escape leaving only extract and EJmix behind.

    Going liquid you'll have the added convenience of no more oil vials or dabbing tools, but rather dispensing syringes and droppers for accurate and mess free dosing. Lastly EJmix acts as a temperature moderator on atomizer coils, it's boiling point of 380F is in the same range as the desired flavors and oils, and as it is vaporized it carries the good stuff away with it. With extract alone we find the flavor is more muted due to the higher coil temperatures.

    And speaking of flavor, we strongly strongly recommend toasting your herbs before extraction (20 minutes at 210F). It is like comparing the flavor of raw garlic to roasted garlic, raw onions to grilled onions, the change is a profound improvement. The oil will be darker and the sharp green aroma gone, but just as there are blonde beers and dark beers so there should be such variety with extracts. These are artisanal Ejuices that we hope will someday be elevated to same level of recognition and respect that wine or scotch receive.

    mod note: Please avoid back-to-back posts, use Edit instead. Two posts merged.
     
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  21. Dreamerr

    Dreamerr Always in a state of confusion and silliness♀

    Messages:
    5,353
    I am very ignorant about this stuff so here is my question. When I filled lighters in the past, I did it anywhere in my house without thought. From reading I guess this was dangerous. From what I read you need to be far from the house or any spark source, not in the full day sun and not in a storm. I am unsure how long it takes for the butane to go away that it is now a safe space?

    Also if you are outside why do you have to be so far from the thing since it only takes ten minutes? I am slightly considering this but for me with my mobility issues that may even be to hard for me.
     
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  22. ataxian

    ataxian California

    Messages:
    6,053
    I like your view point!

    Inspired to make more as I adjust my formula.
     
    mvapes likes this.
  23. mephisto

    mephisto Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    540
    The EJ mix also makes it easy to adjust your strength. My last batch was very weak, so I heated it over a coffee mug warmer/petri dish and added another 1/2 g of extract. Stir and cool, Done!
     
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  24. Haywood

    Haywood Onward Thru the Fog

    Messages:
    552
    Absolutely too visible. My building is pretty much surrounded with other taller buildings, and anyone looking out any of hundreds of windows could easily see what I'm doing. Plus I'm in an area of Manhattan that has a zillion surveillance cameras, due to its value as a target.

    Next time you're in NJ, you can get it there. That's where a friend gets mine for me. (I realize it's not an adjacent state, but it's close enough that you might find yourself there one day). Make sure you get the 95% (190 proof) version of Everclear; there's a lower proof version (I think 150 proof) too.
     
  25. mvapes

    mvapes Surrounded by the healthy!

    Messages:
    4,473
    Location:
    On Shakey Ground
    Shit, I used to live off Chambers and West Broadway - I know the feeling.
     
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