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Discontinued The Herbalizer

Discussion in 'Plug-in Vaporizers' started by nopartofme, Apr 7, 2013.

  1. matey

    matey Active Member

    Messages:
    23
    YES!! Perhaps a hair dryer to help you get the bottom padding off somewhat cleanly.

    DOUBLE YES!! :clap:
     
    arb likes this.
  2. jivebuggered

    jivebuggered Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    191

    Ok thanks for the reply, you are right I`m just pissed for a while (A LONG WHILE) now that they refuse to make a overseas version. REALLY wish there was some opposition to them for someone to design a decent vap with halogen bulb. Nothing out there (even with a halogen) seems to match the Herbie or am I wrong?
     
    arb likes this.
  3. matey

    matey Active Member

    Messages:
    23
    Yes sorry I jumped the gun on my judgment on the bag material after just a couple bags. You're right - I take it all back and can report back after some more experience. The volcano valve is clearly superior. Altho I am impressed with the latest batch of herbalizer bags because the "core" of the green valve extends further than the earlier model bags that my unit shipped with. this seems to protect the plastic bag at that critical part where my original set of bags always got burn holes basically. Perhaps the volcano bags last way longer - we shall see - thanks for the sanity check.
     
  4. MinnBobber

    MinnBobber Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,046
    ..........................................................................................
    What Herbalizer stated some time ago was that it is the mis-matched power frequency that really kills Herbie in other power grids. I see Australia is 230 v and 50 hz (vs 60 hz in US). Changing the voltage is the easy part. Changing the frequency is the tough and expensive part.
    It's a bummer as Herbie is a great vape.
     
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  5. matey

    matey Active Member

    Messages:
    23
    If that's the case, perhaps that UPS he was using wasn't 110V 60Hz pure sine wave etc etc? I bet you could get a battery pack that had the right specs that wouldn't harm Herbie. Besides overseas, it could be good for camping or boat use too. ;)

    I wonder if the microprocessor it uses only works on 110/60?
     
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  6. ViCKi LEEKX

    ViCKi LEEKX Fuck Vaporizer Combustion

    Messages:
    84
    How you go about doing that will depend on which valve system (Solid Valve or Easy Valve) you choose for the Volcano. I have both, but I preferred the Solid Valve because the only “consumable parts” that I had to order for maintenance were the rolls of plastic to make bags out of. If you want to use the dosing capsules (for convenience or to reduce the bowl size) you will want to go with the Easy Valve.

    My method of using the Solid Valve bag with the Herbalizer was super simple and requires no extra equipment: remove the mouthpiece and hold the bag on top of the Herbalizer bowl. It won’t lock onto the Herbalizer bowl like it does the Solid Valve bowl so it is necessary to hold the bag there while filling. I had to do that with Herbalizer bags anyway so I didn’t consider it a dealbreaker. Other people around here have more sophisticated methods; I’m sure you’ll find a way that suits you.

    Nah, they’re both highly effective. They’re different under the hood but the end result is quite similar, IMO.

    The biggest downside of the Volcano to me is the loudness. In a party situation it’s NBD (not loud enough to drown out conversations or anything), but I generally paused any TV/movies while filling bags because it was simpler than jacking with the volume.

    I can’t comment on any use with water pieces, but on both the Volcano and the Herbalizer I ran 2-3 bags per bowl, with the first bag being the densest.
     
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  7. matey

    matey Active Member

    Messages:
    23
    I'm appreciating the sturdy design and high power - watching the digital temperature gauge slowly count down as it sits there is quite charming.

    Thank you that sounds like an excellent method! And I appreciate your second comment because that's good to know to gain perspective. I am guessing that the list of vapes in your signature is sorted perhaps by preference or simply chronologically. Do you really currently own all of those amazing high quality vaporizers? Wow you have such good taste!
     
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  8. fishkid

    fishkid Active Member

    Messages:
    40
    I'm with you. I use Herbie mouthpieces with "vapebags" aftermarket replacement bags and both mouthpieces and bags do fall apart. My tricks to extend life are:
    - water filter/cool vapor (heat is a big part of the problem)
    - arrange rig so bag hangs down instead of pointing up
    - when plastic around mouthpiece begins to leak I disassemble, cut around 1/2inch off the end of the bag, and reassemble. Basically consuming the bag material a half inch at a time. You can do this many times.

    Clearly I'm a cheap bastard but with this method I can go months on a bag with daily use (I also rotate use between two bags).
     
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  9. matey

    matey Active Member

    Messages:
    23
    I noticed that humidity has an effect too. The drier the air, the crunchier sounding the bag is and more brittle. Moister air softens it and makes it more quiet. I'm talking about herbalizer plastic material.
     
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  10. fishkid

    fishkid Active Member

    Messages:
    40
    I took that effect to be heat rather than moisture, but since my rig is rehydrating the vapor this could totally be an additional factor for the (relative) longevity of my bags. My bags just kind of get gross and fall apart - they never get brittle like they did when I ran them unfiltered/uncooled.
     
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  11. ViCKi LEEKX

    ViCKi LEEKX Fuck Vaporizer Combustion

    Messages:
    84
    The Volcano is definitely built to last. Mine was my first vaporizer and it’s still going strong.

    The order of the list in my signature was probably stream of consciousness. And yeah, I do own technically all those vapes (except the Herbalizer bc it caught fire), though several of them are scattered between various friends’ houses. A bunch of my friends primarily smoke but also enjoy vaporizing if there’s equipment around; I have asthma and strongly prefer vaporizers. Anything I’m not using much at home anymore gets left at someone’s house which saves me the trouble of dragging around a vaporizer with me.

    I wish I could claim great taste or that I’m some sort of a vape psychic, but the truth is that I’ve been semi-lucky and have truly benefited from others’ experiences here.

    The Volcano was my first vape years ago and it was a very simple choice because it was the only vaporizer I knew existed. Having it led me to find FC, where I learned about the Cloud and thought it sounded really neat (and was excited to get some use out of my glass again) so I pre-ordered it. Funnily enough, a couple years later I met a cool dude who also had a Cloud and we bonded over that and ended up married. The Herbalizer sounded like a super-modern take on the Volcano, so I decided to try it when it was released.

    It’s a little bizarre to me that those three vaporizers have had such longevity in the market, but I’ve used the heck out of all of them because they’re awesome so in that sense I’m not shocked that a bunch of other people out there still enjoy them too. The most intriguing desktop vape to me right now is the Glass Symphony, so that’s what I ordered to replace the Herbalizer. It should arrive in the next few days and I can’t wait!
     
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  12. fishkid

    fishkid Active Member

    Messages:
    40
    I'm just a hobbyist but AFAIK microprocessors typically work on DC, not AC. Here's the quote from the member who's unit died in Costa Rica, about his UPS:
    I still haven't cracked one open to be sure but my guess is that Herbie's halogen bulb runs on 120vac / 60hz while there's probably an AC-DC converter to run the LCD, CPU, and other typically-DC components. Halogen bulb is likely to draw a ton of current when turning on from cold, which will probably screw up most UPS' outputs enough to fry the AC-DC converter. Just spitballing here, though.

    Please share your initial experiences with us! Particularly in the context of a Herbie/Volcano user.
     
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  13. fishkid

    fishkid Active Member

    Messages:
    40
    Alrighty friends, as promised!

    Innards, revealed: https://imgur.com/a/EZ1lBR4
    Water rig, documented: video (password is just two lowercase letters: fc)
    Realtime power consumption, displayed: video (same pass)

    Right off the bat I could see some aesthetic differences...
    - H logo inlay on top is updated but not better IMO (mine came a few degrees off center)
    - Packing foam is white instead of black
    - Bowl assembly feels slightly lighter, indeed new one weighs half a gram less than old
    - Operating noise is quite different than before, there's a warble to the fan noise I don't recall
    - It's a little quieter in general than the unit that died

    Surprises/notes:
    - I used my reptile heating pad to soften adhesive on bottom pads, its sticky but not strong
    - Only four screws, easy to open
    - After four screws are out, entire vape comes apart easily, no further adhesive
    - Counted three cooling fans and one blower fan for a total of 4 fans; only one seemed to have a filter
    - One two-pin connector is present but with nothing plugged into it - debug?
    - New serial number is approx 100,000 higher than old serial number... if they're sequential then that's a nice chunk of change that Herbalizer has taken home (if they made $100 per device that's over $10m in profit; if they sold them for an average of $400 each that's $40m in gross sales)


    As for fire risk, I have a script running every 60 seconds that probes the current consumption of the device and kills power if it exceeds 320 watts. I also get a text message when that happens. A cursory inspection did not reveal a thermal fuse but that doesn't mean its not in there somewhere - still haven't heard back on that question.

    I'm still running it dry/empty to get rid of the damn plastic smell but sure excited to have that first bag with every single part of the vapor and airpath brand new!!

    Edit: Bowl magnet on new Herbie feels significantly less strong than original. I consider this an upgrade.

    Edit2: Bonus photo of my day-to-day setup with, yes, string and rubber bands to help make spills and falls less catastrophic. I use a 14mm display stand with a 14-18 LoPro on it to hold the water rig comfortably while I'm switching bowls: https://imgur.com/a/yVVhLle

    Edit3: Ahhhhhhh.....
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2018
  14. Stu

    Stu Maconheiro Staff Member

    Messages:
    9,174
    Location:
    southeast of disorder
    I'm curious if you found the Jimi Hendrix easter egg while breaking the unit down?

    :peace:
     
    fishkid likes this.
  15. fishkid

    fishkid Active Member

    Messages:
    40
    No :(
    For obvious reasons, I was really rushing the whole thing. Im sure I'll be back in there sooner or later and I'll give it a better once-over.
     
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  16. lazylathe

    lazylathe Almost there...

    Messages:
    3,979
    Location:
    SouthWest Ontario, Canada
    Has anyone checked the herbalizer website lately?
    Seems to not exist anymore.

    Can someone with more snooping power find out what's going on?

    https://www.herbalizer.com/
     
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  17. Shredulous

    Shredulous Vapornucopian

    Messages:
    16
    Location:
    Washingfun
    wow, no DNS or social media presence. Usually a bad indicator for an e-commerce company. Just got my first herbie about 12 days ago from the SoCal factory, so I hope they emerge from this disruption in their state of being.

    another plausible explanation for pulling their public face is a complete makeover is imminent, but that is wishful.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 22, 2018
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  18. fishkid

    fishkid Active Member

    Messages:
    40
    Time to start hoarding Herbalizers?
     
    arb likes this.
  19. ViCKi LEEKX

    ViCKi LEEKX Fuck Vaporizer Combustion

    Messages:
    84
    Could it be related to their current lawsuit with Storz & Bickel? Storz & Bickel (Volcano, Plenty, Mighty, Crafty) filed against 1Ready, LLC (Herbalizer) claiming that 1Ready, LLC is violating their US patent #6,513,524.
    https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/case/23789236/Storz__Bickel_GmbH__Co_KG_v_1Ready,_LLC

    Storz & Bickel list this patent as being for the Volcano Classic and Volcano Digit:
    https://www.storz-bickel.com/media/dl/sb/sb-patents.pdf

    The patent itself:
    https://patents.google.com/patent/US6513524B1/en
     
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  20. lazylathe

    lazylathe Almost there...

    Messages:
    3,979
    Location:
    SouthWest Ontario, Canada

    Not sure...
    But if it is true then S&B should have beef with a few other manufacturers as well:
    Arizer V-Tower and EQ
    Herbalaire...
    And anything else that uses hot air through a device to hold material.

    You may be right though!
     
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  21. arb

    arb Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    307
    Location:
    Montana
    Poachers should be held accountable if that is the case.
     
  22. sixstringsmash

    sixstringsmash Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    420
    This sounds like bad news if true. I find it hard to believe that S&B can sue over such a broad application such as simple forced hot air through an airpath, but this is America again, the country where you can sue a restaurant if you spill hot coffee on yourself, so I guess I can't be too surprised.

    I love my herbie to death and consider it a worlds better device than the Volcano, I hope they end up surviving this.
     
  23. Shredulous

    Shredulous Vapornucopian

    Messages:
    16
    Location:
    Washingfun
    im 3 weeks into my herbie relationship and i can only hope there will be a Customer Service if and when i need it. Im curious, has the company ever provided any new features, SW or Firmware updates since the herbie was released? Any sign of product development ever?
     
    ViCKi LEEKX likes this.
  24. ViCKi LEEKX

    ViCKi LEEKX Fuck Vaporizer Combustion

    Messages:
    84
    This definitely isn’t S&B’s first rodeo - they’ve tangled in the courts with a few companies and generally settled on favorable (to them) terms.

    Here’s an example from when they filed against Vapir for infringing upon the same patent they are accusing 1Ready, LLC of infringing upon (summary from Vapir SEC filing):

    https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1489588/000121390015003884/f10q0315_vapirenterprises.htm

    Notwithstanding the foregoing, on November 3, 2014, the Company was served with a lawsuit from Storz & Bickel, a German competitor of the Company. The lawsuit claims patent infringement of Storz & Bickel’s German patent no DE 198 03 376 C1. The lawsuit was filed in Germany with the regional court of Mannheim. The lawsuit alleges estimated damages in the amount of 750,000 euros. The Company has filed a notice of its intent to defend the lawsuit and has filed an answer to the complaint requesting additional time. The lawsuit is still ongoing and the Company is working to settle the matter.



    Additionally, on October 15, 2014, Storz & Bickel filed a lawsuit with the United States District Court, Central District of California against the Company alleging patent infringement of Storz & Bickel’s US patent no. 6,513,524, which is the US counterpart to the German patent. The US District lawsuit seeks injunction against distribution of the Company’s VapiRise product, damages, interest, costs, treble damages, and attorney’s fees.



    Storz & Bickel has not yet served the US District lawsuit; Storz & Bickel’s US counsel has contacted the Company to initiate settlement discussions, but it is anticipated that Storz & Bickel will serve the US District complaint if settlement discussions are not productive.



    The Company has a proposed settlement agreement which provides for payment of $40,000 by Vapir and the transfer of its trademark for release of all claims under the lawsuits. As of March 31, 2015, such amount of $40,000 has been included in accrued expenses. In April 2015, both parties entered into a settlement agreement to release and dismiss the Company from all claims against the Company. The Company paid the settlement amount of $40,000 and assigned certain trademark rights to Storz & Bickel pursuant to the settlement agreement.
    The “certain trademark rights” that Vapir gave to S&B were for mark “Vapormed”, which is the mark that S&B distributes their medical products under in Europe, Canada, and Israel:
    https://www.plainsite.org/trademarks/assignment.html?id=859354
    http://www.vapir.com/about-us

    So where does this go from here? Considering that S&B settled with Vapir for $40k and the US trademark “Vapormed”, maybe they’re interested in one of 1Ready, LLC’s trademarks? Those are the “H” logo, the mark “Vaportherapy”, and the mark “Herbalizer”:
    http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4808:y7k1w.2.1
    http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4808:y7k1w.2.2
    http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4808:y7k1w.2.4

    Maybe Storz and Bickel is angling to settle for (cash plus) the ability to use the mark “Vaportherapy” in the US market, or maybe it’s as simple as they think of the Herbalizer as their most direct competition to the sales of their Volcano Classic and the Volcano Digit in the US market.

    I’m curious to see how it shakes out either way because it’s a weird situation given the history of the companies behind the Herbalizer. 1Ready, LLC is in the position of defending intellectual property transferred to them by Clovershield during the hostile takeover in which they forced out the inventors behind their patents and reorganized the company.

    The Herbalizer’s inventors are long gone from the company (and were never part of 1Ready, LLC, that I can see). The only newer model was a stripped down version of the original, and there have been no significant technological improvements or new products for years. I think it’s safe to say that at this point the company’s driving force isn’t innovation or engineering, nor is it a passion project. So when you’re in it for the money (investor ROI in a VC setup), at what point do the time and money costs of defending legal issues pertaining to an aging product line (of one model) become not worth it?
     
  25. Hey Nineteen

    Hey Nineteen Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    82
    I was wondering if there were more Herbalizers catching on fire than the ones we know about on here. I thought may be that is why the site is gone. Just speculation though.
     
    arb likes this.

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