The Herbalizer
- Thread starter nopartofme
- Start date
jazzyvapeman
Well-Known Member
I see a lot of people saying they use the whip to connect to components. When I got the Herbie a couple years back I exclusively used the whip all day every day (I was working from home). I read somewhere on this thread long ago that someone thought the whip took away potency, and they feel the effects much more so with bags.
Am I the only one that notices a huge potency difference in the bags versus whip? To me it seems the silicone is absorbing some of the active ingredients.
Am I the only one that notices a huge potency difference in the bags versus whip? To me it seems the silicone is absorbing some of the active ingredients.
MinnBobber
Well-Known Member
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My take on the whip vs bag on absorbing active ingredients:
the bag clearly "absorbs" (condenses out) more actives than the whip BUT the bag also cools the vapor so you can take bigger hits/ plus the bag has bigger outlet than the whip so allows more airflow. Plus, the Herbie whip is minimal inner diameter IMO which adds to the feeling that the bag is more potent.
Bag allows bigger hits BUT from pure efficiency, it also absorbs more actives. I found it very interesting that one vape company's engineers (Aromed I believe) compared the vape pathway "surface area" of different vapes. The more surface area, the more vapor that condenses out (is absorbed). Their focus was to reduce this surface for more efficient herb extraction.
Bags, of course, had a huge surface area compared to a whip or glass mouthpiece. But bags have the advantage of cooling/allowing much bigger comfortable hits.
You have to take into consideration the thermal mass, the surface area and volume. It's not as simple as determining the surface area.
The ratio of surface area to volume is important. The more surface area you have compared to the volume, the larger the % of vapour that is contacting the sides. In the case of the whip there's a small amount of volume compared to the surface area. The bag however has a much higher volume to surface area ratio.
When you consider that ratio plus the thermal mass of whip vs the thin milar, the whip is far more likely to condense out vapour. As is evident by the amount of reclaim that collects on the inside of the whip.
jazzyvapeman
Well-Known Member
Could't the different materials have something to do with it? Totally unscientific, but couldn't it be possible that silicone absorbs more than the heat resistant plastic of the bags?
The potency difference is really huge. I can sip on the whip for a long period and it gets me nowhere as close to as lit as a bag.
MinnBobber
Well-Known Member
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Respectfully disagree as there is no way the whip condenses out more vapor than the bag.
Actually the most important variables are surface area, and two you left out-- dwell time and temp differential.
The bag is much worse on all three:
- surface area is no contest as bag has maybe 100X the surface area for condensation
- dwell time is no contest as bag has vapor resting in it for 10X-100X the time the vapor is in the whip (1 second)
- temp differential of bag is much greater too. The greater the temp diff, the more condensation that takes place. The bag stays much cooler, for more condensation
Also, when being used the whip heats up MUCH more than the bag so temp diff in whip gets lower and lower as it heats up for less and less condensation effect.
Amount of reclaim in the whip is "optical illusion/ deceptive"
as it is much thicker because is clings to 1/100 ? the surface area of bag. Reclaim on bag is spread out over 100X the surface area so, of course, LOOKS less but in reality, the bag condensation is much more.IMO, best way for minimal condensation with Herbie is HT directly connected, small volume can, using hot water for least temp differential. Small surface area vs bag, minimal dwell time, and minimal temp differential.....and soooo smooth and moisturized
6079Smith
Well-Known Member
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Respectfully disagree as there is no way the whip condenses out more vapor than the bag.
Actually the most important variables are surface area, and two you left out-- dwell time and temp differential.
The bag is much worse on all three:
- surface area is no contest as bag has maybe 100X the surface area for condensation
- dwell time is no contest as bag has vapor resting in it for 10X-100X the time the vapor is in the whip (1 second)
- temp differential of bag is much greater too. The greater the temp diff, the more condensation that takes place. The bag stays much cooler, for more condensation
Also, when being used the whip heats up MUCH more than the bag so temp diff in whip gets lower and lower as it heats up for less and less condensation effect.
Amount of reclaim in the whip is "optical illusion/ deceptive"
IMO, best way for minimal condensation with Herbie is HT directly connected, small volume can, using hot water for least temp differential. Small surface area vs bag, minimal dwell time, and minimal temp differential.....and soooo smooth and moisturized
I see your reasoning and mainly agree with the principles but think a large factor is that in the whip all of the vapor must run through a narrow and long conduit, meaning much more vapor has actually been exposed to the surface area of the whip. The small diameter of the whip and the constant movement of vapor through it brings more interaction between the two versus the bag where the air is very stagnant and does not have vapor being concentrated and actively coursed through it. Most the vapor in the bag interacts with.. nothing, from my way of thinking.
I would think the temps would be similar of the two materials but maybe not. I definitely see the difference in claim that wood to glass makes in my Bricks and it is shocking, a good example of the results of different temps.
In short, I think much less vapor has been exposed to any surface area at all via the bag by having mainly stagnant vapor residing in it versus being used as a more concentrated length of conduit. The concentrated, active exposure to vapor in the whip seems to trump any extended dwell time in the bag for producing claim IMO. I've never attributed any more or less effects to using one or the other. My
, fun to think about and nice to have the versatility, regardless 
kcmochris
Well-Known Member
Man, I've been on the fence deciding on when and what to get for glass with the Herbie...this legitimate concern we all have with the water over the unit has finally tipped the scale of mine. I'm just about to go ahead and get the bundle. Have been eyeing the steamroller for awhile now.
I did want to mention this as it's been on my mind regarding the steamroller. In a video by Herbalizer promoting the Chong Choice option when it first came out I noticed something on the table in front of the presenter. I have included the link to the YouTube video directly below, from where I took a couple of screen grabs (immediately below link)....Bent steamroller...
Zoom:
2nd frame:
For those saying the bag gets them more high. It's most likely because it gets the material hot for longer than if they were drawing on the whip. Even with fan assist a person cannot keep up the temps inside the bowl like filling a bag.
If you want to see for yourself you should "finish" a bowl with your whip then blow a bag. You should see a whole bunch of vapour that you missed out on.
If you want to see for yourself you should "finish" a bowl with your whip then blow a bag. You should see a whole bunch of vapour that you missed out on.
MinnBobber
Well-Known Member
Bag vs whip:
for those that use both methods, how about an apples to apples test-
- measure out same source bud into two equal loads ( or three equal?)
- load one into bowl and fill a bag, count how many seconds fan assist is on. Enjoy the entire bag and take note of the high and time the fan was running.
- day two, load the second herb and use the whip with fan assist. In a series of fan driven intakes, take the same time total as the bag took to fill. Enjoy bag #2 and take note of the effects.
And the conclusion is?????
- day three, use a hydratube with warm or hot water on Herbie. Again, use fan to pump out the vapor for the same amount of time. Enjoy and compare.
EDIT- @turk , bent neck water tool would be nice. Bong style/straight glass tube is not ergonomic with Herbie---must be bent over the unit.
I didn't like that setup so had @Ratchett do an adapter where whip comes off the top of the straight HT--mouthpiece comes to you instead of you hunching over your piece.
Ooops, pic shows HT adpater with glass mouthpiece but whip can be inserted as an option.
Both result in much better ergonomics
for those that use both methods, how about an apples to apples test-
- measure out same source bud into two equal loads ( or three equal?)
- load one into bowl and fill a bag, count how many seconds fan assist is on. Enjoy the entire bag and take note of the high and time the fan was running.
- day two, load the second herb and use the whip with fan assist. In a series of fan driven intakes, take the same time total as the bag took to fill. Enjoy bag #2 and take note of the effects.
And the conclusion is?????
- day three, use a hydratube with warm or hot water on Herbie. Again, use fan to pump out the vapor for the same amount of time. Enjoy and compare.
EDIT- @turk , bent neck water tool would be nice. Bong style/straight glass tube is not ergonomic with Herbie---must be bent over the unit.
I didn't like that setup so had @Ratchett do an adapter where whip comes off the top of the straight HT--mouthpiece comes to you instead of you hunching over your piece.
Ooops, pic shows HT adpater with glass mouthpiece but whip can be inserted as an option.
Both result in much better ergonomics
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turk
turk
....I hear you man...however, I'm a guy who's been using weed since 1969... believe me I have indulged under more difficult conditions ...lol....but yeah a bent neck or side neck is definitely more comfortable...and they know that...she intimated that it would have water ability...we shall see....never thought I would live long enough to see all this before my eyes .....my...my.
...stilll with alll that...fuckin love the steamroller .
...stilll with alll that...fuckin love the steamroller .
Radiocitysuicide
Well-Known Member
That's awesome about the bent neck water tool the lack of a bend is what made me rule out the steamroller. I wish it had a little bit more of a bend from what I could see in the picture but cool nonetheless.
stickstones
Vapor concierge
If you're using the whip a ton and then switch to bags, you are likely experiencing a signature change. Another benefit of dual delivery vapes!
jivebuggered
Well-Known Member
Am I the ONLY one here that has been "hounding" Herbalizer for a International version? I think anyone interested in a Herbalizer outside of USA/Canada should really start doing everything they can (email, twitter facebook etc etc ) to get Herbalizer to get there finger out and produce one for us that can`t have one. Let`s face it there is no way I would buy one now (plus a transformer) with the cost of freight and risk it blowing up with wrong frequency and no warranty. I am so sick of hearing the same lame excuse "busy behind the scenes" or "we are busy working on it" etc, etc. I am on there case all I can and have been hearing the announcement of a International version for over two and half years. They say they still have most of there original tecky`s well what the hell have they been doing for all this time? They quickly cut me off all conversations because they are sick of hearing me.
You would think for a company to exist they would have to go outside of USA but all you get is "we are a small company" or "we are doing our best" or some other crap. I thought when they had a company reshuffle a LONG while back that here might have been some sensible changes but still nothing and most definitely no news what so ever if they are even trying to produce a Int model. I wish every day that SOMEONE else will produce a unit similar so I can tell herbalizer what to do with there`s!! They dont deserve me as a customer anyway, the way they treat me . I would think I have a right to be treated a bit better as a potential customer inquiring about one of THERE products.
Please FC members start fighting in every way you can to force there hand OR someone please develop a model similar so I can buy yours instead with my hard saved money.
You would think for a company to exist they would have to go outside of USA but all you get is "we are a small company" or "we are doing our best" or some other crap. I thought when they had a company reshuffle a LONG while back that here might have been some sensible changes but still nothing and most definitely no news what so ever if they are even trying to produce a Int model. I wish every day that SOMEONE else will produce a unit similar so I can tell herbalizer what to do with there`s!! They dont deserve me as a customer anyway, the way they treat me . I would think I have a right to be treated a bit better as a potential customer inquiring about one of THERE products.
Please FC members start fighting in every way you can to force there hand OR someone please develop a model similar so I can buy yours instead with my hard saved money.
jivebuggered
Well-Known Member
No, you might not be up to scratch on it but some members have bought step down transformers and with the very few replies I received concerning the issues with them I have come to the conclusion long ago that it is not worth it. It is not the lower voltage that you need it is the different frequencies of the countries power that kills them. The herbalizer is very specific to the frequency everything runs by it. Some members said it went ok (herbalizer) with a step down transformer others never replied enough. There is NO warranty outside of USA/Canada. Seems there tecky`s just don`t have the brains to make one that runs on a different frequency. To buy a frequency/ voltage converter you are looking at thousands of dollars.
MinnBobber
Well-Known Member
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@jivebuggered.
I agree 100%, intl model is long overdue. I may bug them too, even though I'm in US---let them know i have intl vaping friends that REALLY want a Herbie so they need to get their act together.
@cobra505 ,
Herbie was found to be very sensitive to HZ, 60 HZ frequency is standard here but many countries have 50 HZ standard I believe.
Inexpensive transformers are available to get the proper V in other countries but changing the HZ to 60HZ is difficult/ expensive/ etc.
Some have succeeded but some have gone "poof"--- an expensive lab experiment
Maybe it is the halogen bubl or the control electronics but Herbie is a fussy bastard
stressed
Well-Known Member
i'm a balloon guy. i've tried the whip again and again but a full balloon will give me many hits and get me higher every time. doing the whip is quicker but slow is fine with me.
i see many of the folks here vape concentrates at 445. i cough my guts out at that temp. for me, 415 degrees with a little bud, the concentrate holder thing with a little hash on it is perfect. i get 2 bag fulls at this temp and lower.
love my herbie!
445°F was only my recommendation for those who have wispy vapour and desire a thicker result.
Lower temperatures will work just fine.
jazzyvapeman
Well-Known Member
I typically vape at 330 always and have great success. If I want some additional mild psychedelia I'll go up to 350, and if I'm feeling like soaring with the stars I'll do 380+, but for temps above 330 I have to water cool to avoid coughing. I have asthma and am sensitive.
yadoofer
Member
I've been using the herbalizer since 6/16 under all sorts of different parameters. While the exercise wasn't scientific in any way, it sure was fun. I tend, now, to follow the temperature ranges you have described. Mostly.
@stickstones suggestion to run flat out does have an appeal at bedtime, though. It really helps, with the right strains, to medicate me. And that is strictly why I am here and using Herbie.
Prefer bags to whip.
Justpassedu
Well-Known Member
I see with the Chong's choice version of the Herbalizer there is a on/off button. Is there anyway to turn the OG version on/off without having to close/open the lid ?