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The Herbalizer

Discussion in 'Plug-in Vaporizers' started by nopartofme, Apr 7, 2013.

  1. trypto

    trypto New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Hi everyone, I'm sorry to make my first post a critical one.

    I've read much of the thread and purchased an Herbalizer today. I'm disappointed about a couple of things, and I'm wondering if it's normal. I have searched the thread and found some discussion, but nothing definitive. Also, the Herbalizer support email is bouncing as undeliverable.

    The first concern is a rattle or rapid popping sound when the unit is heating. Someone else may have described this as an electrical contact sound. It coincides with the bulb flickering on and off. This may be normal, but I think it should be identified in the manual, which is insubstantial for such a high-end device.

    The second is the fan when the unit is heating. Leaving the bowl in place while raising the temperature blew vapor unexpectedly through the bowl. Again, if this is unavoidable, why not a caution in the manual?

    I'm also disappointed that a lightly packed bowl doesn't vaporize completely (or evenly) in one big hit at the high temp, 445 F. I liked that feature, touted by the Sublimator, although I've never tried one. I was turned off by the Sublimator's industrial appearance. Anyway, judging by ABV and effect, the highest setting on my Pax seems to produce a higher temperature at the herb without combustion. Finally, the flavor seems fine to me, but unexceptional.

    Other vaporizers I've used include Pax, MFLB, Eclipse (similar to MFLB) and several DIY vaporizers. About twenty years ago, I made my own version of the BC vape. More recently, I've been using my version of the hot glass vape. It produces high temps and big hits with it's 40W Hakko ceramic element, but the heat is focused in the center of the bowl.

    If this unit isn't defective, I'll see if I can get used to it or consider selling it. For the price, I expected it to be no-contest compared to what I'm used to. I have the impression that it's very efficienct.

    Again, sorry to be so negative. I'll try calling the company tomorrow.
     
  2. nigel

    nigel And shepherds we shall be,for Accuracy & Discovery

    Messages:
    845
    Email shouldn't be bouncing. Perhaps you have a typo in there?? I'll PM you another eddress.

    Sheila is really good about taking care of people, so maybe a phone call tomorrow is your best bet (as it is after 5pm and I hear tell she likes to go home from time to time :) )

    I haven't noticed this. I haven't listened for it either. I'd do so right now, but my Herbie is staying at a friend's for a while. :)


    This device works by a bulb heating the air before the bowl and then maintaing the precise temp by moving said air into the bowl by means of the fan. So this is BY NO MEANS a bug nor unexpected, but rather EXACTLY how it is designed to work. What it really comes down to is that one wants the bowl to be at the temp one expects it to be at, and this device does so in a manner that exceeds other products.


    Is the problem that you expect the whole extraction to be done in one hit? I rather like the fact I can I get many bags off of a small amount of product. I think what you need to look at is the over-all efficiency.

    The PAX very well might be. But, that's not necessarily a good thing. Please see this article on why the max point of the Herbalizer is where it is:
    https://www.herbalizer.com/so-what-really-is-combustion-why-herbalize/


    I can't comment on the clicking, but if there is anything wrong with it, they will take care of you.

    You might just need a little while to adjust to it, perhaps?? (That is: If there is no defect.)

    We have hear very little in terms of problems with units over-all, so I would hope your also is problem-free.

    But play with it, and have fun. Keep an eye on how much you can extract.

    Cheers
    :cheers:
     
  3. trypto

    trypto New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Thanks for that link. I'll have to look at some ABV under a microscope. Those last, darkest hits are the most efficacious for me. It's too bad if they're no better than burning.
     
  4. toros23

    toros23 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    955
    Location:
    West Coast
    I think this may be the fan that runs when the bulb is on. I had an issue with the SS washer loosening (the one the bowl sits on) and was told that could eventually lead to the "popping" sound you describe if things get out of alignment. Like Nigel said, give em a call but I don't think it is anything electrical or dangerous.

    @trypto - When you look at the SS washer is it aligned properly?
     
  5. trypto

    trypto New Member

    Messages:
    10
    It looks fine to me. It's definitely not loose.
     
  6. toros23

    toros23 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    955
    Location:
    West Coast
    Actually, I shouldn't have said loose - more like off center. I'll let Josh diagnose for you but the potential noise Josh mentioned to me had something to do with the magnetic field of the transformer interacting with the magnet that holds the bowl. I should just be quiet, this device is way too complicated for me to try to diagnose!! Good luck, but you won't need it with the Herbie crew!
     
  7. Been Vapin

    Been Vapin Fringe Class

    Messages:
    496
    Location:
    USA
    Just did my first full cleaning after about a week of use. I was worried about cleaning the whip, but it was super easy.

    I collected a nice sized dab of condensed vapors from the whip and put it on the concentrate pad at 445.
     
  8. letter never sent

    letter never sent reckoner

    Messages:
    358
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    I guess I can see where you're coming from in describing the sound of the fan while the unit is heating. However, I don't find the sound very irritating myself, so it could also be that there is something wrong with your unit. Best to check with Josh & Co.

    Nothing you can really do about this, it's part of the design. I usually take the bowl off while the unit is heating up.

    While I've never been able to completely cash a bowl in one hit, I routinely find myself finishing most of the extraction after three or so hits from my bubbler with the fan assist on. This is with .05-.1g packed in the bowl. The Herbalizer can be a one hitter quitter if your tolerance is low enough, but I don't think it's going to give you Sublimator-like hits, given the limited knowledge I have about that unit.

    Flavor wise, I will say that I don't get as intense of a flavor as I do from the first few hits of a Solo stem, but the flavor is solid. The best thing about flavor with this unit is that the flavor retention is outstanding. Even at the highest temps, the taste never becomes offensive. I love that aspect. Also, the vapor is extremely cool and smooth, especially with the whip + fan assist. There is something to be said about the vapor consistency afforded by precise temperature control.

    I definitely get where you're coming from here. It's easy to experience buyer's remorse when you drop a large sum of hard earned cash on a product and it's not quite what you expected. I will admit I had some second thoughts immediately after receiving my Herbalizer. There were things I didn't like about it, things that annoyed me. I even contemplated selling it for a brief period of time. Now, I don't regret my purchase one bit. I love this vaporizer. Are there things that still bug me a bit? Sure, I absolutely think there are details that could be tweaked, modified, and/or improved. But that can be said about pretty much any product, let alone the first high-tech offering from a small startup company.

    I'd recommend giving yourself some time to warm up to the unit, as your feelings may change. In my opinion, the positives greatly outweigh the negatives with this device. Also, give Sheila a call tomorrow, I'm sure they'll help you out!
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2014
  9. Vapodudule

    Vapodudule Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    500
    Location:
    centered
    It is subjective way to compare unseen things but Dang dang mofos. :rockon:

    PV shot a package to me, inside, chips and crackers and herbalizer.:bowdown:

    I would like everybody know that the first European herbalizer is running under bronson++ AVT-800 volt transformer like a charm, i kept some wattmeter to keep an eye on instant W. :cheers:

    So i am confident for all international customer to jump on herbalizer now through PV (what else?). The risk is about the warranty.

    You can see i can compare it to many vapes i know from, i think VAS hunted the big boss with this one.

    To compare with sub, Not the same bet nor level of answer. Sub approaches vaporisation by the upside and with basic material and partial conception. herbalizer is a fully designed 300W light bulb driven by a computer and assisted with 3 fans. Within two weeks of use i found sub too agressive for lungs (even with two stages of percolation) and taste lacking (need of clean the unit but the stain/metal taste is here for sure, not talking about CS). My lung still make me pay for this. Yes, i chase for clouds but for health too.

    I blew bags and bags from a single load and made my adaptaters for water. More information to come.

    I really think that device answers completely to the problem of modern vapes: how to extract precisely and progressively.

    HIP HIP HURRAY FOR THE MAGIC CLAM :dog::cheers::whip::razz:

    EDIT: 2 nd round for one bubler attached and full blast from scratch. I had to stop because it was to rich. the bowl was generous. Result n°2 it milks as ever.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2014
    poonman, nigel, lazylathe and 3 others like this.
  10. Mister G

    Mister G Council Elder

    Messages:
    666
    Location:
    Title Town
    Mine makes a sound but I find it more like an engine revving up than a popping noise.

    I've found Herbie has it's own vape signature, but that I like the sig from my other vapes just as well, but they all have different modes of use (I am so thankful to be spoiled with such choices and variety :evil::evil::evil:).

    For me, I've still experimenting but have found I am getting the best effects from starting at lower temps and working my way up on the same bowl, i.e. a couple fan assists at 389 (highest temp in the 'balanced range') and then I kick it up for a fan assist or two at higher settings, usually 400, 410, 420 and 445max. Then as Vito instructed, after I get no more visible vapor, I let the fan assist just run at 445 and take inhales off the running hose to finish it off completely. If you go straight to 445 or other Intense temps, you'll probably get bigger clouds right off the bat.

    I want to go to the real low temps, but I need to find the additional faith to believe the lack of visible vapor and faint taste at those temps is going to do something. I will get there, just too tempted to go higher when I use Herbie.
     
    lazylathe, Been Vapin and Engineer like this.
  11. grokit

    grokit power cosmic

    Messages:
    5,514
    Location:
    the north
    For one-hitters, the sublimator is pretty unique as it uses conduction and radiation in addition to convection to fully extract a single load, unlike pure convection vaporizers like herbie and evo. The evo does a better job than herbie is this respect as well, it's a different design. But herbie has other capabilities that are unique to it, mainly the precise temperature control but also of course the aromatherapy and balloon modes.

    I always load 1-hit bowls with the sub,
    sometimes but not often with the evo,
    and with herbie I do like to milk a bowl,
    usually about 1/2 to 2/3 full;
    sometimes I sip and other times I gulp.
     
  12. JoshyBalls

    JoshyBalls Just Vape It!

    Messages:
    14
    Location:
    Calgary

    Hi Mister G

    When I'm Vapin Like a Boss, and I'm settling in for a long sesh with Herbalizer this is how I do it. I mostly use the balloon unless I'm watching a movie or trying to be sneaky. But I start at 290 and I'll tell you why. It's not about the smoke. It's all about the flavor. I have one balloon at 290 to capture the kindest essence. I believe if you begin Vaping at 300+ degrees there is a chance you'll overheat the more delicate essences too quickly. My second balloon and sometimes my third as well, would be vaped at 334. It really depends on the type of Branson too. Then I'll go to 375 and finally clear out the bowl with one or two bags at 420. Obviously me and you vape on a different scale. I only vape at 445 for hashish.

    The first time I heated up my DaVinci set at 334degreesF, the chamber was already packed with herbs. I walked into my kitchen to grab a drink while it heats up. In about 15 seconds I could begin to smell my herbs heating up at only 160degreesF so I started puffin on it and I got the nicest flavors of any herb I ever smoked. So I wanted to know how low does my bud begin to vaporize.

    From my hash making days I remembered the magic number 80degreesF. The best hash makers in the world use their hands because the body transfers approximately 80degrees. At this point cannabinoids begin to activate without diminishing the most delicate oils and maintaining the most flavor. Therefor if some cannabinoids are more delicate they should be extracted first at low temperature, then elevating gradually to higher temps. I generally vape between 260-420, and I like a gradual increase from low to high. Usually if I'm Vaping indoors in public I'll maintain a temp below 334 to avoid heavy vapors; while I would usually cash the bowl at 385 tops. All that being said the temp of a vape is dependent on the heat delivery systems, like you said each vape has it's signature. Also each vaporist has their own style. I'm a vape explorer, but it's all about the flavor to me. Vaporizing is like perfect tea.
     
  13. stickstones

    stickstones Eccentric of mist Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,351
    I've used a ton of vapes for a long time and herbie is challenging my conceptions about vaping. Looking at the list of mostly conduction vapes you have tried, I can't help but think it will change your thinking as well.

    were you saying the evo is better at 'convection only' than herbie?
     
  14. grokit

    grokit power cosmic

    Messages:
    5,514
    Location:
    the north
    No. I was speaking of full one-hit extraction capability.

    The evo can do it the best for a pure convection vape,
    better than herbie can but not as well as the sublimator.
    Soon I will find out if the G1 can hang with this company:worms:!

    Not that herbie can't do it, but it seems to require a bit of a modification as @Vitolo demonstrated a while back with his conical screen mod. The ssv is like this as well, using @Tweak's elbow screen mod.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2014
    Mister G likes this.
  15. stickstones

    stickstones Eccentric of mist Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,351
    I find the one hitter thing depends more on my load size. The Sub was a good one hitter that only took small loads. The cloud works great with any size load. Herbie can do just fine with a small one hitter size load, but may take two hits.
     
    grokit likes this.
  16. trypto

    trypto New Member

    Messages:
    10
    I accidentally deleted a paragraph when I fixed the video. Anyway, I think I mentioned that Sheila and Josh were very gracious this morning and asked me to send a recording, a portion of which I include here.


    grokit - the Evo is another vape I considered along with the Herborizer (or Roor). Can the Evo reach higher temps than the Herbalizer (judging by the color of ABV)? I know it's not as healthy, but I like the effects. Does it vape more evenly? I haven't found the Herborizer locally. I think it's mainly a Euro product.

    stickstones - most of the ones I've tried are portables, and that's how I've used them. My DIY hot glass has seen by far the most use and it's pure convection. Basically just a stripped down Hakko 40W soldering iron with a 24/40 glass joint over the element. I use an adapter as a bowl for bong hits. This has worked surprisingly well for years, except for uneven heating.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2014
  17. grokit

    grokit power cosmic

    Messages:
    5,514
    Location:
    the north
    ^ your video seems "private".

    The evo seems to reach higher temperatures,
    but not as evenly as herbie and can char part of the load.
    I find this charring undesirable as far as taste goes,
    so it's a delicate balance to use it this way.

    Herbie vapes more evenly,
    and is definitely capable of full extraction,
    but as @stickstones said it can take more than one hit.

    I need to get the conical screen that @Vitolo pictured early on in this thread,
    so I can give it a try. I have the smaller and larger sizes but not the 15 mm one.

    [​IMG]
     
    Been Vapin and Snappo like this.
  18. trypto

    trypto New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Sorry about that. It should work now. I'll have to look up that part of the thread.

    That mod does look interesting and delicious!
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2014
  19. JoshyBalls

    JoshyBalls Just Vape It!

    Messages:
    14
    Location:
    Calgary
    [​IMG]

    I'm very curious to hear about the different temperature scales and vaporist preferences, especially regarding the Herbalizer. This is a visual diagram of what I've learned about vaporization. I need feedback, please criticize the shit out this! How do you like your tea?
     
    white russian, nigel and Engineer like this.
  20. trypto

    trypto New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Doesn't THC come off at lower temps than the others? This is another chart, I found. I don't how accurate it is. I can't answer your question because I'm still afraid to go below 380. I'm not a fan of nervous energy effects.

    I just received one PM emphatically stating that her or his Herbalizer does not sound like mine. Please listen to my 10 sec recording and message me with your confirmation. Another way to describe the sound is a bicycle wheel with a card in the spokes.

    I haven't heard back yet from the Herbalizer people today. To be on the safe side, I'll let this one be. I'm actually a little relieved. There's always going be some percentage of defective units, especially in a first run. Maybe I'll enjoy a fully functional Herbalizer as much as everyone else does.
     
    nigel likes this.
  21. grokit

    grokit power cosmic

    Messages:
    5,514
    Location:
    the north
    I think it probably varies a bit by strain, because while most charts seem to agree with each other for the most part they all seem to have differences as well. Obviously more research is needed!
    :science:
     
  22. Been Vapin

    Been Vapin Fringe Class

    Messages:
    496
    Location:
    USA
    Just did a bowl at 290, 325,365,380,420,445. 290 is so tasty. Just a really enjoyable baking experience. Another thing I've noticed is the herbalizer has especially good expectorant capabilities. It is a true medical device.
     
  23. Vitolo

    Vitolo Vaporist

    Messages:
    6,601
    Location:
    The Vapor Trail
    I have found expectorant activity at lower temps.
     
  24. stickstones

    stickstones Eccentric of mist Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,351
    I find it hard to determine. Mine makes a similar sound when heating up initially. It's a series of rapid clicks that I think are more distinct with mine. But the recording is probably a little bit distorted and it is always hard to compare volume with a recording. I 'think' yours sounds more like a rattle than my clicking, but I don't really know. If it is working then I would continue to use it until hearing back from the Herbie team.
     
    ShayWhiteGrow and 1_gr8_underdog like this.
  25. Mister G

    Mister G Council Elder

    Messages:
    666
    Location:
    Title Town
    I'm really confused now because mine sounds just like that, although midway there is a single Pop sound that I heard that mine doesn't do (unless that sound is not what you are referring to). The card in a bike wheel sound is what I get, is someone saying that's NOT normal?

    Regarding low temps, I tried the technique starting at 290 that you wrote about, but using the whip and fan assist and not the bag, and I think either my strain isn't good for low temps or my body chemistry isn't tuned for that end of the spectrum as it did pretty much nothing for me. I admit my current stash isn't the best for flavor town at the moment.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2014

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