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The god helmet, scam or legit?

Discussion in 'The Vapor Lounge' started by Jeremy Driscoll, Feb 6, 2014.

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Legit or scam? (please) list your vote in the forum, and wether answer is based on experience or not

  1. LEGIT based on opinion only.

    50.0%
  2. Legit from myself or someones personal experience

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. scam from opinion

    50.0%
  4. scam from personal or someones experience trying helmet.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Jeremy Driscoll

    Jeremy Driscoll Well-Known Member

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    I just saw this thing, and people are doing lectures on it as if it is legit, on the other hand, many people say it is a scam online, then again, these people who believe it works are phds, and highly educated, they seem to really know what they are talking about in a sense. So unless I try it for myself, I am baffled, then again I could just go buy one. But before I do, has anyone tried this? What do they think? Scam or legit? Is there some other technology better than this? Like the rubber hand technique? I know many people think that the rubber hand technique is legit, but however, it does not seem to give the same OBE effects as a real obe experience just a simulated one.

    For the time, I can not afford a helmet myself, but when I can and do get one, if I do get one, I will post the results to any who are interested.

    I was also wondering that since people sometimes seem to say that because of a psychedelic drug that they could experience an OBE. But I do not want to take acid, or anything to try that because I have had a few bad trips with mj, and don't to try anything else at this time in my life, unless of course I can get an OBE or something.

    I was also wondering if anyone knows of anyone who has tried the helmet while stoned, and maybe could offer what that experience was like, or while drunk or both while using the helmet.

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  2. mestizo

    mestizo Well-Known Member

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    I think the experience is real, but I don't understand why experiencing the divine with an external stimuli, or ingesting a substance, makes the idea of a creator invalid.
    The spiritual world is real.
    How did we end up with those receptors and chemicals in our brains that make the contact with the spiritual possible?
    Evolution?
    Well, if anybody believe in evolution, the idea of a creator won't make sense to them in the first place.
    I think this helmet is just another tool to break on through to the other side, just like fasting, chanting, LSD, peyote, DMT, psilocybin, etc. etc.
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2014
  3. Jeremy Driscoll

    Jeremy Driscoll Well-Known Member

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    Another thing that seems weird is that this is a few years old, and if this is real, then why hasn't this hit tv commercials, or mall kiosk booths that are cheap and can be rented in the mall for people to try, and if they like it to buy it, or better yet rent out usage to people in a room to use it for affordable money, like 10 a session, and if people like it they can pay the hundreds it takes to get it from the site I found them at, or if they don't then they only lost 10 or some small amount, and they got to try it without losing mass money, or needing mass money just to pay for it to maybe or maybe not work.

    The fact that something that is reported to do something so amazing, and yet is not used to make money in these ways, ads extreme skepticism. I mean lots of people think that there are gold mines of ways to make money, and some work for some people and some ways do not.

    But something that can do what this says it can do, to give your mind even if it is fake or real, the experience it claims but the fact that people do not use this in malls, or on tours, or on tv in commercials, or whatever is very discrediting.

    You would think people would make a tv show from this or something. I mean taps and ghost hunters is criticized as a scam show, but many people still believe it enough to the point where it is interesting to watch.

    You would think that something that is working for as the doctor reports it in another video as 80% success in inducing something paranormal is even more legit enough to make it a successful tv series to at least last as long as a few seasons or people reporting their god like experiences.

    But instead the mall and tv commercials are filled with places to eat, clothing, and as seen on tv junk everywhere you go. Yet the best things that are products seem to go unnoticed.

    How can something that induces obe or like experiences, not be the most talked about invention in the world?

    Yet video games, and xboxes seem to be the only thing people care about regarding the importance of inventions.

    You would think that this would be a no brainer.

    If you went to the mall, would you rather play pac man, or whatever video game or spend you money on an out of body or spiritual in general machine?

    Which is a strong reason to think that this is fake, if something is too good to be true it probably is, but if it seems to good to be true but is actually true anyways.....AND if it at the same time is widely less known then something of less importance like oh lets say a playstation or a 3d tv, then there is something fishy about it.

    It is like MJ. MJ is in my opinion one of the greatest if not the greatest plant of all time for what it can do. But. If that is true then why is it that so many people not only do not try it. Not even once. But instead they fight so hard to keep their people away from it like it is some evil drug handed to them from the devil himself.

    How is it that the world can be so backwards?

    Nothing makes sense anymore.
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2014
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  4. mestizo

    mestizo Well-Known Member

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    I think the answer to some of your questions is something like this:
    What is sacred to some, it is taboo to others.
    You also have to remember that a lot of good things have a bad side to it, including cannabis, or a better example is our tongue, a kingdom can fall or be built in a person's comment.
    Some of the most beautiful things in life, become some of the worst when corrupted.
  5. Jeremy Driscoll

    Jeremy Driscoll Well-Known Member

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    Still I would love to try it if I had the money, I would buy one in a heart beat, I just wish that there were local stores or something that I could try it for a smaller price to test it before buying. I'm a mall rat, and I walk around the mall watching new businesses go out of business all the time, and it is always some cheesy gimmick. Like glass sculpting with a torch. And slipper and hat booths, a pokemon booth, a trading card booth, really all nice for kids I guess. And in just a few weeks we see the booths go out of business and have a going out of business everything must go cheap sale. And I see the pain in their faces as their dream of making money goes away.

    Somehow if this thing does what it says it can do. I think it is a goldmine waiting to happen. I could see it now, "test the machine that is 80% successful. Have an out of body experience, from the amazing god helmet, only 10 for 10 minutes". The sales pitch could be something like hey kids if you think video games, and Facebook, and power rangers is fun you should try existing out of your body for awhile.

    I mean think of the product. No other toy on earth could compete.

    And adults, man, talk about stressed, I wonder how an OBE (assuming this helmet thing actually works) would take care of stress from a parents.
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  6. arf777

    arf777 No longer dogless

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    This is a few years old. It has been discussed and tested in refereed scientific journals for years, however there are conflicting results. At the same time, the underlying science is pretty valid. I have some doubts about the dude as he is selling it to people (or was for a while). From the most recent studies of this specific device that I've seen, which did not successfully replicate the original results, I am leaning towards it not really working yet. However, there are other teams who have repeatedly caused subjective religious experiences using electrostim (at least one at the FMRI lab at Stanford), but it is not a neat little helmet or for sale, but a massive one-off machine with a shitload of wires and EEG contacts.

    In response to your blank assertion that 'the spiritual is real' - that is what we call an opinion. Not a fact, and certainly not a scientific fact. This device is supposedly based on science, so it's validity would have to be tested by that standard.

    But plenty of people who work in the neuroscience of religion are not setting out to debunk, but to elucidate the mechanisms involved - it tends to be a certain type of religious person that automatically calls that an attack on religion. While others do argue that showing a physically-triggered mechanism does undercut the legitimacy of the experience qua religion - if I can hit you with an electrical current or a simple molecule (like mescaline, an isomer of adrenaline and a far less complex molecule than LSD) and you have the same subjective experience as a 'spiritual' experience, what makes you think the other times you 'feel it' aren't just electro-chemical hiccups? Ever known an epileptic or someone with serious migraines? I've know people with both who see 'auras' and feel something 'transcendent' as an attack comes on. Even more so with temporal lobe epilepsy - many sufferers see 'beings' and bright lights during temporal lobe seizures.

    Now personally, I'm a mahayana madhyamaka buddhist. So this is not an issue for me. That form of Buddhism recognizes subjective phenomena as inherently related to physical phenomena (and all physical phenomena as related to each other), and all of it, as we perceive it, illusory. And specifically states that 'spiritual' experiences - from feelings of religious joy or awe to visions of entities, including the Buddha - are part of illusion. One of the meanings of 'if you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him' - if you have visions of the Buddha, you are hallucinating, not having a spiritual experience, so ignore it and move on. That's according to both Thich Nhat Hanh and the Dalai Lama. So being highly skeptical of the subjective religious experiences reported by many people is not inherently anti-spiritual, unless you think Thich Nhat Hanh isn't spiritual.
    KidFated. and Enchantre like this.
  7. djonkoman

    djonkoman Well-Known Member

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    never heard about this helmet before, but...

    hearing who the narrator is and the kind of subject it's about makes me think this is a clip from 'trough the wormhole'. in that show they often feature this kind of fringe-science, it's very interesting but nonetheless at the fringes of science. so I do believe the scientific basis under it is likely 'good'(as in, it's not random bullshit from some quasi-science source wich just uses some scientific words to sell stuff).
    it also means though is that this is a scientific tool, not some toy you buy.

    if you are just looking for an OBE, there are other ways to get one. I personally had an OBE when I was trying to induce lucid dreaming, I used the WILD-technique, wich involves laying still in your bed, in a comfortable position, and try to not move. at a certain point your body will start to fall asleep(often you get an itch somewhere right before this, so you have to keep yoursewlf from scratching it), and you will get weird sensations. in my case it started with feeling like my chest expanded a lot every inhale, and after that I also had sewnsations of falling/sinking into my matress, waves running trough my body etc. if you get trough that and manage to keep your mind awake(at this point I often fell asleep), you can enter a lucid dream. but the only time I succeeded, it first started as an OBE, and since I wanted a lucid dream and not an OBE, I 'forced' myself back into my body, and managed to get a (short) lucid dream.
    at the time somer of my friends were also trying out lucid dreaming, and one of them reported an experience where he felt/thought his feet were on fire(in the stage before entering a dream), and seeing dark shadow-figures. seeing shadowfigures is apparently common during sleep paralysis, but eventhough I've had sleep paralysis multiple times I've never seen/felt anything like that.

    this helmet-experiment also reminds me of the stuff I've heard about sensatory deprivation, I never tried it but supposedly you start hallucinating if your brain lacks 'input'. so what I would be curious about is to see a comparison between this experiment with the helmet with and without the induced magnetic field.

    btw, about the spiritual side. my personal worldview is very rational. I don't believe in any kind of deity, or other supernatural entity/something. ofcourse I can never fully exclude it, but that's on a philosophical level, I also can't be sure about all my observations, but on a daily basis I assume the floor I think I'm walking on actually exists. also, if there does exist some kind of deity, I think it's highly unlikely that any of our major religions turns out to be 'right', I think it would be much more likely if such a deity would be some sort of weird force, barely registering as an entity to us, and not concerned at all about daily human affairs.

    while tripping on shrooms I did have a very spiritual feeling, and I think I now understand/know how religious people experience god, since my experience on shrooms could be described as feeling one with god, if I had been religious. but I'm not, so it was just an aqwesome experience to learn from for me, it had a deeper meaning in the sense of learning from it, but I don't think such an experience/state holds more truth as my everyday experience, it was just different, not closer or further from the truth.
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2014
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  8. crawdad

    crawdad floatin

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    sensory deprivation: watching the film 'altered states' (a while ago) got me interested in trying, and have...with good results, for me key was setup of mind body and space, as you would expect. ive yet to try magnets or anything other than edibles for enhancement. noticed similar sensations as djonkoman as well as earth's rotation strong enough that i felt i was flying, always in one direction (to my left) but often is confusing if im flying that way or if things are just moving to the right about me....ive yet to develop a concern in figuring that out.

    wish the helmet came in an all glass version :brow:
  9. notmyrealUSERname

    notmyrealUSERname Notmy Well-Known Member

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    The helmet seems to just be a fancy way of containing an EEG machine.

    The "magnetic coil" that is turned on could simply be a speaker (headphones).

    If you want to try this out on your own for free look into binaural beats


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  10. deadheadbill

    deadheadbill I can see clearly now the smoke is gone...

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    ^^^That shit is sick.
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  11. arf777

    arf777 No longer dogless

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    ..and other forms of audio entrainment.
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  12. mrboote

    mrboote ...

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    Saywhutnow pimpin? Don't let your ladies hear that a lil weed put the "big fear" in ya. They'll lose all respect an start actin up.
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  13. mestizo

    mestizo Well-Known Member

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    First of all I'll confess I'm ignorant of buddhism or its branches,
    But let me ask you, doesn't buddhism or some of its branches teaches we live in an illusion? having that believe how can you see anything as real.
    Also, what are the requirements for the scientific method to validate the spiritual as real?
    If you attempt to see the invisible (non-material) world with visible eyes (material) you are going to fail, and l think is not fair, you study the spiritual should be with spiritual tools.
    Can I see your soul? or can you see mine? Can you see the essence of what I'm, what makes me different to everybody else? can science see the hurt I feel when somebody says a hurtful word to me? can they see it?
    I'm not just flesh and blood, and I'm different than animals in that I have speech, I can judge right from wrong, I can be taught, not train, I demand justice when done wrong, I feel embarrassed at times etc.
    I'm made of flesh and blood, but I have also experienced the spiritual and anybody can have their opinion,
    and that's fine with me, that is why they call it ineffable and science is behind in this matter.

    "So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen, since what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal."
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2014
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  14. tuk

    tuk Well-Known Member

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    I wonder how the Science community would react to the mechanisms of Science being elucidated as fact via a religious narrative?

    Do you think Scientists would see this as an attack on Science or at least a degradation of what Science is?

    Or would it only be a certain type of Scientist that objects?
    RUDE BOY and mestizo like this.
  15. Jeremy Driscoll

    Jeremy Driscoll Well-Known Member

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    If doing this with google glass would that mean that although you would be seeing through the image and the image form youtube would look faded while noticing the real world behind the video would that mean that you would be tripping out constantly because your looking at both the video and reality at the same time but just as two images overlayed on each other?
  16. Enchantre

    Enchantre A short, pithy statement

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    That isn't a hallucination. That's visual memory.

    I've done bi-aural meditation for years. Started with the program "The End" from Centerpoint. Went through 6 or 7 of the 10 (?) levels.

    Went to my first Vipassanna meditation retreat, and that shit blew bi-aural out of the universe.

    Meditation is free. Just takes your time, and all of your focus for that time. There really isn't an easier road to it. It doesn't even have to be a lot of time - a few minutes a day is enough. But you have to be 100% focused - and working your way to that point is the point.
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  17. arf777

    arf777 No longer dogless

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    In science we see the 'immaterial and invisible' CONSTANTLY- all of particle physics, neuroscience (an EEG is a physical tracing of part of your thoughts, for example), you name it. And science is a METHOD - the same actions in the same conditions yielding the same result is science - not a subject-matter or set of assumptions. A real scientist will believe anything, if the data is there.

    And, uh, nothing is "eternal". Not the sun, not the earth, not the universe itself, and certainly not you. Sorry to use the term, but the arrogance of thinking we humans are somehow eternal is staggering. Why the fuck are you eternal, but not an oak tree or a sperm whale or a virus or a bacteria? Because you like the idea?

    There has been a scientific and systematic study of religion for over 100 years. I was a member of the SSSR (Society for the Scientific Study of Religion) for many years, and it is full of bel;ievers, unbelievers, and undecideds, but who agree that the scientific method is the way to go. Classic example - bunch of Buddhist and Taoist monks in the '70s allowed EEGs to be attached to them during meditation. New brain - wave patterns were discovered that way. And when people who had never used the meditation methods before tried them, with a bit of practice they got the same brainwave patters. Bam, empirical science on inducing "religious" experience. The Buddhists and Taoists involved were not offended in any way. I met a few of them. They loved it.

    In fact Buddhist "spirituality" is scientific in that sense in general, as is the spirituality of my favorite occultist, Aleister Crowley - his motto was 'The Aim of Religion, the Method of Science'. There is no claim to absolute knowledge - all the sutras begin with a sanskrit phrases that literally means "thus have I heard", and which functions in sanskrit philosophy as a declaration that what follows is a mix of opinion and personal experience, not a claim to absolute truth. Both the Buddhist and Crowleyite (Thelemite) traditions make their claims based on the fact that what they recommend, as a method, not a belief, has worked to alter the consciousness and reduce the suffering of people who have used them. What makes them unusual (though not unique) is that they also say, if these methods don't work for you, then FIND ONE THAT DOES. They don't say it's a fault in the end-user. Islam and Judaism both have traditions like this - Turkish Sufism in Islam, the applied kabbalah in Judaism. I have no idea if Xtianity has one - I have never studied it.

    Back to Buddhism - maya, often mistranslated as simple illusion, is more complex. No branch of Buddhism denies physical reality. It is not solipsism. It begins with the empirical fact that the state of non-pain always, eventually, ends. What people mistake for an assertion of non-reality is the teaching on sunyata (literally emptiness), which is the assertion that all things are empty of inherent existence. Not that they lack existence per se, but inherent existence. In fact the same sutras warn that emptiness is itself empty (sunyata sunyata) - that is, that you must not take sunyata too far and deny that matter is matter or deny that gravity is gravity.

    Instead of inherent existence, things are seen as having interdependent existence, a result of interdependent origination (famously, "This is like this because that is like that", for any THIS and any THAT - see Thich Nhat Hanh's 'The Heart of Understanding' for the best discussion of this I've seen in English- less than 60 pages).

    So things exist; we just ignore the fact that they only exist by virtue of their causal connections to other things. Following Thich Nhat Hanh, many Buddhists use 'interbeing' as the translation of sunyata instead of 'emptiness' now, specifically to avoid this confusion in English. In fact, the dharma uses the empirical facts of matter to deconstruct the destructive concepts that lack inherent existence and cause pain - like the fact that we cannot say we have a 'self' (but rather no-self or anatman, literally no psyche or no soul) when we know we are in fact made of millions of cells, these each made of subsystems like mitochondria. Where are "you" in there?

    One of the oldest schools of Buddhism, abhidharma, is an atomic theory that predates the Greek one, and uses that approach to deconstruct the self, desire, gods, etc. If everything can be broken down into smaller and smaller component parts until you get to the basic elements, where is the mind, the soul, the self? This is not a negative thing, BTW, but the source of Buddhist joy. Cuz if we have no self and no psyche, then we cannot truly suffer, can we? Pain and death, like the self, become illusions in the more traditional sense of the term. Functions of flawed perceptions.

    Especially in the west, Buddhism is mistaken for all sorts of things it is not - a religion, solipsism, pessimism, spiritualism, and New Age wishy-washiness, to name a few. When in fact it is the oldest logico-empirical, atheistic, optimistic, moral and ethical system around. The other traditions like it got to the logico-empirical part centuries later.
  18. mestizo

    mestizo Well-Known Member

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    After reading this, I didn't bother with the rest.
    Did I say something to offend you?
    The only way you can back up your claim that nothing is eternal is if you, yourself are eternal, to see everything end before you.
  19. arf777

    arf777 No longer dogless

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    In fact you did. The assertion of eternal religious truth has led to more death and destruction than just about any other concept in human history. My own family is less than 1/10 the size it was before 1936 - European Jewry, as well as European Gypsies and gays, just to name a few, were genocided less than 80 years ago because the Nazis thought they had special access to "eternal religious truth". Only 60 people left on Earth with my last name, more than 500 before the War. Even worse for my mother's family - over 5,000 went into the camps, exactly ONE came out. When that has happened to you and yours, feel free to be truly offended.

    Most people just ignore that part, but Nazism was a religious neoPagan cult, quite similar to some forms of early Christianity.

    And that's just this century. Even the current Pope recognizes (some of) the death and damage these assertions of universal absolute truth have caused. The Native American death numbers now widely accepted - and in large part due to religious arrogance- are even more staggering. Nearly 100 million in less than a century.

    I would remind you there is no atheist, or even agnostic, version of "Kill them all and let god sort them out". Only people claiming to have 'eternal truth' pull that.
  20. RUDE BOY

    RUDE BOY Space is the Place

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    I believe in an eternal soul.
    Spiritual "Truth" is always subject to be viewed through Mayas veil and distorted by man.

    arff777 atheistic peoples still perform "ethnic cleansing" is that any better? How many Jews and Other peoples of faith were killed under the soviet regime or Maoist China.
  21. mrboote

    mrboote ...

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    Textbook application of Godwin's law. Enough to brighten anyone's morning!
  22. arf777

    arf777 No longer dogless

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    Stalinism used all of the trappings of a religious cult. But even that aside, and with the horrendous body-counts both Stalin and Mao mounted up, they do not come close to the death toll of the Roman Catholic Church alone has racked up. Buddhism has had periods as bad, with such rejection of differences in opinion that one of the officially bloodiest religious wars in history (by percentage of civilian population killed) was a buddhist one in Sri Lanka. My point in part is that any assertion of absolute truths of any kind justify horrors. In some ways especially the belief in an eternal soul - the Catholic body count was always joined with the guilt-healing assertion that they were't really killing anyone, since the souls all lived on.
    RUDE BOY likes this.
  23. grokit

    grokit power cosmic

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    I agree with the Hindus, we're all living in somebody else's dream matrix :p

    "Enlightenment is achieved when one awakens from the illusory world
    (maya) and becomes one with the Bramhan, the absolute, which is the truth."


    Edward Blake
    :
    "Once you realize what a joke everything is,
    being the Comedian is the only thing that makes sense."
    :lmao:
  24. RUDE BOY

    RUDE BOY Space is the Place

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    It's to true that people kill other people for gain under the veil of religion but in the end it's always for worldly gain and nothing else. That Can't justify throwing "Religious" thought that shaped our civilization as it is out in the trash for the sake of scientific analysis.
    deadheadbill, grokit and mestizo like this.
  25. mestizo

    mestizo Well-Known Member

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    I think most of us will agree that you can't label a religion as bad by the actions of some, specially if those people committing the crimes are clearly violating the principles of it.

    I also agree with @arf777 that there are no true atheistic people, but atheism based political governments (Marxist) killed more people in the last century than religious ones .

    And the phrase I quoted that offended you about the eternity of the soul, was quoted from a Jewish writer's book. And let's not forget that Karl Marx was of Jewish descent. Why do I say This? Because I positively quoted a Jewish writer, but I'm not in denial that another Jewish writer inspired a lot of people to commit genocide, and to show you that no matter what race you are, "We have assholes in every race" I think it was George Carlin who said that.
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2014

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