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The Extreme-Q Vaporizer

Discussion in 'Plug-in Vaporizers' started by Rockwise, Jan 5, 2010.

  1. icemeltman

    icemeltman New Member

    Messages:
    8
    Great info.. The question I still have is, what is the recommended whip or tubing to use with the SSV ground wand. I have been using the DDave F/F adapter with great results. I wanted to add the SSV wand, but now I realize I will also need the tubing and mouthpiece. Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.
  2. DDave

    DDave Vape Wizard

    Messages:
    744
    Hey OBG, Thanks for the kind words. :rockon: Will keep this updated as new info becomes available.

    Hi icemeltman,
    Silicon Tubing:
    http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/the-extreme-q-vaporizer.1457/page-253#post-481187
  3. oldiebutgoodie

    oldiebutgoodie Apostle, Church of Vaporization

  4. icemeltman

    icemeltman New Member

    Messages:
    8
    If I remove the elbow from the arizer tubing, I can insert the tubing inside the ssv glass wand. Would this be satisfactory?
    samirfuzzywuzzy likes this.
  5. DDave

    DDave Vape Wizard

    Messages:
    744
    Thanks OBG!


    icemeltman, I ran mine this way for quite some time. Works fine, just not as flexable as the silicon.
    samirfuzzywuzzy likes this.
  6. oldiebutgoodie

    oldiebutgoodie Apostle, Church of Vaporization

    DDave, if your wand mod takes the Arizer glass out of the equation, then I wonder if using the SSV stock tubing would be a good or even better alternative? It's cheap, and SSV claims it's even better than silicone (which IIRC SSV originally used). Anyway, fwiw here it is.

    http://silversurfervap.com/accessories/ssv-accessories-and-gear/replacement-hose-3ft.html
  7. Tweak

    Tweak T\/\/34|<

    Messages:
    1,006
    I think the general consensus is that Silicone is better than SSV hose. Just marginally better, with silicone tubing kinking less and a little more flexible. The only downside to silicone is that it like to pick up dirt/dust on the outside. It is easier and probably more reliable to order from 7th floor though.
  8. wisherly

    wisherly Active Member

    Messages:
    107
    Location:
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Thanks for the info DDave and Seek.

    For those thinking about getting the SSV tubing, I noticed that all tubing on the SSV site is buy one get one free for Black Friday. iirc, the deal lasts through the weekend. I picked up 2x10' foot ropes of it myself. What is the SSV tubing made from then? Everyone here says it's better in multiple ways as compared to the EQ stock tubing. I just noticed my stock EQ tubing says "70 F" on it. I hope that doesn't mean it's only rated up to 70 degrees Fahrenheit. That would explain the horrible taste. :puke:
    Tweak likes this.
  9. Tweak

    Tweak T\/\/34|<

    Messages:
    1,006
    Stock EQ tubing is terrible. Stiff and very hard to remove from the Elbow joints.

    In comparison, I can roll the end of my EQ sized silicone tubing, doubling its wall thickness and allowing me to use it as a mouthpiece or to be shoved into a SSV wand.
    samirfuzzywuzzy, ataxian and wisherly like this.
  10. oldiebutgoodie

    oldiebutgoodie Apostle, Church of Vaporization

    The stock Arizer tubing is PVC. When I purchased my Q it was a Japanese brand approved for use in the U.S. because it meets the NSF-51 standard which is medical/food grade. It has a temp tolerance up to 500F.

    The silicone tubing linked to above sold at Amazon is also NSF-51, and IIRC has a Durometer (hardness, i.e., flexibility) rating of 50A. A lot of folks here use this, some others use McMaster-Carr.
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2013
    wisherly likes this.
  11. Seek

    Seek Apprentice Daydreamer

    Messages:
    1,389
    My PVC Arizer tubing got soft and deformed at 240°C (thats below 500F) with fan on for several minutes. It got much narrower where the glass ends and I threw it out finally.
    wisherly and samirfuzzywuzzy like this.
  12. oldiebutgoodie

    oldiebutgoodie Apostle, Church of Vaporization

    I need to do a mea culpa here. :doh:

    The NSF 51 standard essentially describes criteria a commercial/industrial material must conform to if it comes into contact with a material intended to be ingested. For tubing specifically, typical examples are food/water/medicine/chemical transport and storage and delivery, air conditioning/furnace drainage, laboratory and medical activities, bottling, and many more.

    When I investigated a replacement for the Arizer PVC a few years ago, I looked at other choices as sold by McMaster-Carr, US Plastics, Amazon, etc. and found that all had a temp tolerance up to 500F. To be perfectly honest, I don't recall how the Klearon K010 got lumped in with these. Materials conforming to NSF 51 can acceptably vary in tolerances, depending on the material and its application. When looking again today for the Klearon spec, the only K010 I could find is Series 73. I don't know if that is exactly the same that was used when I bought the Q or if this is what Arizer currently uses. However, what is certain is that at least the Series 63 K010 temp tolerance is 150F, which is obviously far lower than 500F. I have to presume that I erred somewhere.

    But before panic sets in, a couple of things to keep in mind: First, the temp at the tubing is significantly lower than the Q's heater setting. The second is that a material softening or even breaking down does not automatically translate into "leeching"; while it may not be suitable for its intended use any longer, it's not necessary harmful.

    So for perspective I set up a test using my IR gun, with the Q set to 500F for 1 hour followed by Fan 3 running for ~20 minutes. At that point I took these readings:

    Heater exterior = 300-425F (a wide range depending on where the beam is pointed, with the 425F looking down the center airway opening)

    Cyclone bowl = ~350F

    Glass elbow = ~220F

    Elbow glass connector with PVC fully attached = ~170F

    Tubing 1-2" from connector = ~130F

    Tubing 6" from connector = ~100F

    Tubing 12" from connector = ambient (so vapor entering the bag will drop to ambient very quickly)

    While the tubing was still within spec, it did soften considerably just after the connector although it still maintained shape. I was surprised at how fast the heat dissipates. In any event, even sustained at full throttle, the tubing never reached its upper heat tolerance.

    I also took the readings without the fan running: The whip did not rise above ambient.

    Bottom line: The stock PVC works OK and is safe, but NSF 51 silicone is vastly superior (and costs more, too).

    Hopefully the above is satisfactory penance for my error. :ugh:
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2013
    Nesta, DDave, wisherly and 1 other person like this.
  13. DDave

    DDave Vape Wizard

    Messages:
    744
    Hi OBG, absolutely, the SSV tubing would be far more desirable than the stock Arizer tubing. When I ordered, wasn't sure any of the mods would work, so didn't order the entire SSV whip, only the wand itself. Thanks for providing the link to the tubing!

    Also, VERY NICE post on your tubing investigation!!!!
    http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/the-extreme-q-vaporizer.1457/page-257#post-499395


    Vape On!
  14. Nesta

    Nesta Active Member

    Messages:
    57
    Location:
    NY
    I'm still relatively new to vaping so there are plenty of things I'm still pondering. One of these things is the harshness of vapor, the way it can irritate your throat. Obviously I see that many, if not most of the folks here use water/glass to help reduce the heat & irritation.

    I read, somewhere on FC, that vapor is actually hotter than inhaling smoke. Is this a fact that everyone agrees on?

    It certainly seems feasible, but your mouth is much closer to the burning end of a cigarette/joint than it is to the EQ's heater, especially using a whip. And since we're not combusting, I would think the vapor should be cooler than smoke.

    So it's very interesting to see the reading drop all the way to the ambient/room temperate- just 12 inches from the elbow. That doesn't seem very hot at all. I guess it's not just the heat that can irritate the throat -but the contents of the vapor as well.
  15. Seek

    Seek Apprentice Daydreamer

    Messages:
    1,389
    Depends on the delivery and thrmal mass of the vape. Hard pulls on convection vapes need lots of cooling. A super short whip or just a glass mouthpiece will not make it.
    Even the MFLB which has the least thermal mass of any vape I can think of can burn my lips because of the super short mouthpiece.

    The smoke has to travel through all the herbs before its gets into you. The herb filling acts as a good heat filter being more effective than half metre of hollow tubing. The huge surface area of the smoke-path in a cigarrete/joint makes it a powerful passive cooling devide.
    When I put an empty ELB into the Cloud I get much hotter air on my lips then when it is full exactly for this reason.
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2013
    oldiebutgoodie and Nesta like this.
  16. Nesta

    Nesta Active Member

    Messages:
    57
    Location:
    NY
    Good point! I recall more coughing fits when finishing up a joint than at the start.
  17. samirfuzzywuzzy

    samirfuzzywuzzy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    297
    DDave and Stu like this.
  18. bench88

    bench88 New Member

    Messages:
    10
    I have a ddave adapter without a ledge ;(

    How can I get a screen in there to stay without a ledge? Or is it useless to my extreme Q?
  19. DDave

    DDave Vape Wizard

    Messages:
    744
    Hey bench88,

    Sorry to hear that. If your adapter is straight through with no increase or decrease in size along the air path, I am not sure how one would get a screen to remain in the middle of the adapter.

    Now, if you use something like an SSV Wand, which encloses your herbs on both sides, there is not need for a screen inside the adapter. You'd still gain the benefit of your herbs being closer to your heater.

    Hope this helps! (maybe you could post your source, so others don't procure the same piece?)

    Vape On!
  20. SavageCore

    SavageCore Member

    Messages:
    30
    Just did the mod to remove glass lip from cyclone bowl and wow, such a difference! Will probably for now just get SSV whip and not bother with 14f/14f adaptor. Good idea? Or does the SSV benefit from being closer to heating element?
  21. DDave

    DDave Vape Wizard

    Messages:
    744
    SavageCore, I've tested both the original Cyclone and 18f/18f adapters with the SSV Wand. There is a definite performance increase with the shorter adapter. A side-by-side picture is at the top of this post:
    http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/the-extreme-q-vaporizer.1457/page-235#post-436972

    Hope this helps! Vape On!
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2013
  22. wisherly

    wisherly Active Member

    Messages:
    107
    Location:
    San Francisco Bay Area
    I got my SSV tubing and it is a bit too wide for some of the EQ fittings. The EQ mouthpieces, for example, don't fit airtight. I had to stick something in between the tubing and mouthpiece to create a tight seal. I'm still not sure what this tubing from 7th floor is made of. Does anyone know? It tastes better than the stock EQ tubing but still adds something to the taste. Maybe after a while the taste goes away, or maybe I just won't be happy with any plastic/rubber in my vapor path. I'm going to explore some silicone tubing next. If that doesn't work, I'll look into an all-glass solution. It's fun experimenting though.

    I also got some ELBs and they do work nicely, although the capacity is not as large as I expected. I've gone back to packing my DDave adapter. That produces a nice even abv. I have to watch the temperature from now on though. I combusted this morning for the first time with my EQ. 230C in the DDave adapter is too hot apparently. Yuck.

    edit- actually the EQ mouthpieces fit the 7th floor tubing. You just have to push them in further than with the EQ tubing. :doh:
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2013
  23. oldiebutgoodie

    oldiebutgoodie Apostle, Church of Vaporization

    Yea, the SSV tubing is 1/16" larger. With the silicone tubing from Amazon, I've never noticed any taste. It also has the elasticity to fit the larger SSV pieces.

    Fwiw, a friend I set up with the DDave adapter (with Q elbow, not SSV wand) is doing a progressive temp session, starting at 190 and working up to 210.
    wisherly likes this.
  24. Egzoset

    Egzoset Vaporist v2.0

    Messages:
    2,266
    Location:
    Shawinigan/Qc, Canada
    Salutations,

    While the current frenzy happens to be about tubing and similar upgrades i'm trying to imagine how Arizer should proceed with their next revision...

    [​IMG]

    As far as i'm concerned the upper half seems just about fine except i'd appreciate having a light show above!... :popcorn:

    As for the lower half of their V-Tower metal shell, i say it should be rendered permeable to air so why not allow generous ventilation from its sides instead of the base? Or even use wire mesh for that matter... Unfortunately i sense this may not be possible with an Extreme-Q because of it's fan system, what do you think?

    :peace:
    Maine420 likes this.
  25. andrewb123

    andrewb123 New Member

    Messages:
    15
    just bought this guy on ebay... i received it without a screen in the elbow adapter so i can't elbow-pack just yet. but sheesh this thing doesn't draw with my herb double-grinded up filled to the black marker. 210 c 230 c 240c .. got better results with the fan on the 1"setting" as i drawed from the wand. did all of the vapor come out of the thing when i was warming up? haha i warmed up for about 10 minutes. but i'm assuming elbow packing is the ONLY way. cause i spent a good half hour with this guy and didn't get much out of it. should i be judging by the amount of vapor i'm exhaling? it seems i get much better hits out of my pax by ploom
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2013

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