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The E-Cig party is over

Discussion in 'Medical Discussion' started by randybishop, Apr 13, 2014.

  1. randybishop

    randybishop Member

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  2. Skeena

    Skeena Standing stone faced like a statue.

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    They didn't say what brand they tested, or how diluted it was. I bet it was 100% pure.
     
  3. max

    max Bingo Coordinator Staff Member

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    Sure I'll buy that nicotine alone is as bad as smoke containing thousands of chemicals. Makes perfect sense to me. :rolleyes:
     
    Adobewan, as, PoisonousHydra and 4 others like this.
  4. hoptimum

    hoptimum Well-Known Member

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    Sadly, for many people ecigs are synonomous with vaporizers
     
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  5. stephenpowns

    stephenpowns Vape Enthusiast

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    Read up on this more. They used cells that were already pre-cancerous.
     
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  6. CentiZen

    CentiZen Evil Genius in Training Accessory Maker

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    Good god, I was hoping to at least see a decent source of information linked - but VICE? Just stop reading that ridiculous publication. Their fringe coverage used to be decent but now they are just a joke. I recommend reading the actual study abstract instead of that editorialized piece of garbage; and you'll find that this is just another example of yellow journalism on VICE's part.

    To quote the study abstract (emphasis mine):

    It goes on to explain that a "higher concentration", which is never elaborated upon except to say that it is to represent the anticipated nicotine delivery profile of a cigarette smoker - can cause some malignant transformation when cells are exposed to it for ten days straight.

    Even the NATURE article that VICE cites does not support their claims, they write clearly near the end of the article:

    Considering that the cells they used were cultures generated from bronchial tissues that had already exhibited cancerous mutations, anyone trying to use this study to support an absolute assertion one way or the other is full of shit.

    The only thing I agree with that writer on is that there is a real need for more research on this topic. Too bad all the researchers are hesitant to release their findings now because they know all these so called journalists are going to twist their work any way they please.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2014
  7. max

    max Bingo Coordinator Staff Member

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    They are vaporizers. Just like the mj variety, they use heat to produce vapor and avoid smoke. Hopefully the term 'e-cig' will stick so that 'mj' doesn't have to be added to 'vaporizer' in order to convey the proper meaning.
     
    SSVUN~YAH and smokum like this.
  8. DonDizzurp

    DonDizzurp ELEVATED

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    The study isn't claiming e-cigs cause cancer. It's suggesting that e-cigs might have the potential to cause cancer. Two very different things here.

    You can support e-cigs all you want but your opinion doesn't trump science. Again, this study hasn't PROVEN anything but it's definitely a strong step towards putting an end to the e-cig health debate. Even the study itself states further research is needed. Disregarding or discrediting it because it could lead to a study that might show the potential harms of e-cigs is pretty ignorant.

    BTW, I didn't read the Motherboard/Vice article. I just looked through it solely to find the study and the Nature article.
     
  9. DonDizzurp

    DonDizzurp ELEVATED

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    Not really.

    If you use tobacco in a convection or conduction based vaporizer, it would be similar.
    Using VG and PG and nicotine and flavour, soaked in a silica wick, and heated using a NiChrome coil is not the same thing.
     
  10. hoptimum

    hoptimum Well-Known Member

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    I don't disagree. However, I doubt that most people know anything about the devices we discuss daily in this forum. But they sure as hell know about ecigs.
     
  11. CentiZen

    CentiZen Evil Genius in Training Accessory Maker

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    Please read the VICE article and reread what I wrote; I have a feeling you have fundamentally misunderstood my point. At no point did I mean to call in to question the study itself - only VICE's interpretation and embellishment of the findings. My point is that the study involved cannot support an assertion in either direction about the harm factor of electronic cigarettes, something the study authors have asserted themselves.

    VICE's article oversimplifies and ignores key context points about the study that are essential if someone is to be able to form an educated opinion about the findings. They pull numerous quotes out of context to support points that are far more severe than those put forward in the study. The article also seems to have been edited since the original version that I was commenting on, to rephrase some of the more drastic conclusions that originally sparked my ire.

    Keep in mind I have absolutely no issue with the other article - the one by Nature. This is a well written article that properly cites the study and gives important context to the findings. The VICE article is not. I mean, just compare the titles:

    Versus:

    As someone who lives their life by scientific method; I almost feel offended by the insinuation that I would think my opinion should trump science. What I want to see here is more research - far more research; and for the media to allow that research to happen without using every step of it to feed fear, uncertainty and doubt. Every time we see a new study it gets thrown into the frenzy, with both sides of the issue trying to use it to push their own agendas. That's not a recipe for a proper discussion, and it causes researchers to fear the controversies that their research may be used to generate. It does not exactly get scientists chomping at the bit to pursue this much needed field of research.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2014
    nopartofme and DonDizzurp like this.
  12. Deja Vu

    Deja Vu i don't ever wanna go to bed

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    Inconclusive study.. But interesting. I always believed that it was the nicotine that caused cell mutation but did not consider that it was more responsible for cancer than a lungful of carcinogenic neurotoxic smoke was..
    Hopefully this unfolds more soon!
     
  13. hoptimum

    hoptimum Well-Known Member

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    Great point about the media. How the media frame the discussion has everything to do with how it's perceived. At the moment, I can imagine editors at most (not all) publications snickering over a marijuana article the way they might if they were writing a story about stars in the porn industry. Until they grow up and treat cannabis like adults, with respect, we're in for an uphill climb for a while, IMO
     
  14. DonDizzurp

    DonDizzurp ELEVATED

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    My apologies. I completely misunderstood your first post.
     
    CentiZen likes this.

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