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The Bud Toaster - (currently: Model 14, version 3)

Discussion in 'Upcoming and Unreleased Portable Vaporizers' started by Hippie Dickie, Jun 10, 2009.

  1. Vakas

    Vakas Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    143
    Hi Hippie, hope you don't mind but can you tell me what makes you come up with that price?

    The amount of work you have put into making this or the parts that are utilized?

    I am sorry, I haven't been keeping up with your Vape, it looks good, just thought I would ask, trying to get a better idea of how/why MiniVap/Mighty/Volcano/Herbalizer cost as much as they do.
     
    Hippie Dickie likes this.
  2. Hippie Dickie

    Hippie Dickie The Herbal Cube Manufacturer

    Messages:
    2,495
    Location:
    where the Cube rules!
    @Vakas - $500 (or more) is what i think the functionality, performance and design are worth, compared to all the other vapes i see on the market. if you prefer, 5 times parts cost + my time to manufacture.

    5 year warranty with always and all ways free shipping, including battery packs.

    and only 1000 units will be manufactured of this design.

    and while i may have some startup issues with producing in volume, this is NOT a beta device ... it works and it is reliable ... the three units i use regularly are flawless.

    edit: this design has been in daily use for over 3 years ... not a beta.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2015
  3. virtualpurple

    virtualpurple Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,136
    Can I sign up meow?
     
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  4. Hippie Dickie

    Hippie Dickie The Herbal Cube Manufacturer

    Messages:
    2,495
    Location:
    where the Cube rules!
    that would be too stressful ...

    here's the plan:

    make a dozen for out-of-my-hands testing,
    invest in tooling and parts to make a hundred,
    fab, test and pack 100 units for sale.

    THEN, think about taking orders.

    right now, i have 10 pcbs stuffed and tested.

    the case design is acceptable - well, Gucci i'm not - so, let's say the case is functional ... it does what it should. still have to iterate on the power pack pcb and how it locks into the case. the power pack is easily removed to swap in a fresh charged pack - two packs in the kit. 90 minutes run time per power pack (12 sessions) - recharge from drained in 45 minutes.

    it is getting close enough to having a complete consumer product that i have to take all this shit very seriously. i consider all the failure modes of all these other vapes and apply lessons to my design, where appropriate. but, honestly, designers all deal with the trade offs differently - i don't see much overlap, except a lot more vapes could use a $3 BBQ thermometer to know if they are functioning properly, imho.

    and, after 10 years of using a battery powered vape, i think i understand the battery issues pretty well ... i prefer my approach which should prevent a lot of the problems i read about. i have no problem covering the batteries under the warranty. they are vital, i believe in this tech, you're covered, period.


    tl:dr - not yet.
     
  5. TboneToker

    TboneToker Medical Enthusiast

    Messages:
    551
    Looking forward to the toaster!
     
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  6. Hippie Dickie

    Hippie Dickie The Herbal Cube Manufacturer

    Messages:
    2,495
    Location:
    where the Cube rules!
    still making a bit of progress ... after 3 years of design effort, i have finalized how i want to do the power pack.

    The power pack will be removable from the case,
    two power packs will be included with the retail package,
    a dead power pack recharges in (no more than) 45 minutes - 3 amp recharger, but these cells can handle 6 amps,
    the two cells are soldered to a pcb,
    a Deans Female plug is soldered to the pcb,
    the power pack is covered with a leather cover.

    Here is the pack before leather:

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    and after being covered with 1 mm thick leather:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    this is just the first prototype, so the end trim is a bit off.

    this will be supremely reliable and is as safe as i can make it. and i think about this quite a bit ... these two power packs can start a car, delivering 120 cold cranking amps! oh, yeah, i think about this a lot.

    the finished power pack is 1/8" wider than i had figured, so i am in the process of re-doing the case, yet again - this will be Case 40. (unbelievable, eh?).
     
  7. Hashtag46&2

    Hashtag46&2 Trichome Technician

    Messages:
    609
    Location:
    7th Floor
    Hotmuthafuggindayummm..
    :clap::clap::clap: Count me in!!
    Maybe, just mayyybeee

    The timing of your release will correlate with my disability Benefits...
    I'm friggen pretty damn crippled and have worked full time throughout 20+years of chronic pain, just long enough to obtain a mortgage for the wife and I.

    Doc's kept telling me..
    "You should not be working so much "
    My response..
    "I know , but it's my duty to at the very least work until I have a permanent roof over my head "

    But, I still forced myself even further to pay off both cars as well.

    Certainly paying the price...

    Awesome job Hippie, truly inspirational, admirable.... And all other synonyms .
     
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  8. TboneToker

    TboneToker Medical Enthusiast

    Messages:
    551
    I want a good girl, she want a gentlemen,
    We sayin the same things
    Like a synonym,
    My pimpmenship so hard it need censorship
    I'm a Chicagoan
    Til Chicago end
    Til we blow like Chicago wind
    I don't know what's better, getting laid or getting paid I just know when I'm getting one the others getting away
    This way.
     
    Hashtag46&2 likes this.
  9. Hippie Dickie

    Hippie Dickie The Herbal Cube Manufacturer

    Messages:
    2,495
    Location:
    where the Cube rules!
    Okay, now it gets interesting ... i have finally, after 3 fucking years, completed the case design ... i can barely believe it.

    i'm still figuring out some minor assembly step details, but, damn, the design is done. i like it, it does the job, and i can build it.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Welcome to the next level ...
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2016
  10. IAmKrazy2

    IAmKrazy2 Darth Vapor

    Messages:
    2,686
    Location:
    Detroit
    Talk about a cliff hanger. Anything else you can tell us?
     
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  11. Hippie Dickie

    Hippie Dickie The Herbal Cube Manufacturer

    Messages:
    2,495
    Location:
    where the Cube rules!
    (added a couple of snaps to last post) ... details to follow after i make 6 more cases.
     
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  12. IAmKrazy2

    IAmKrazy2 Darth Vapor

    Messages:
    2,686
    Location:
    Detroit
    Adding the pictures makes a world of difference. Thanks.
     
    vapen00b and Hippie Dickie like this.
  13. lazylathe

    lazylathe Almost there...

    Messages:
    2,931
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Now, about that list...lol!!

    Great update and I can't wait to have some more case details!! Everything in its place in one case!
     
    Hippie Dickie likes this.
  14. Hippie Dickie

    Hippie Dickie The Herbal Cube Manufacturer

    Messages:
    2,495
    Location:
    where the Cube rules!
    Absolutely! Well, there is another case that holds this one and the charger and the spare power pack and the spare glassware and extra stash cans. Maybe an AC power supply - if i can find one that will handle instantaneous 12 Amp draw - usually they see the 0.5 ohm heater and shut down.

    But, yes, a session case ... and it is proving to be very convenient to use.
     
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  15. Hippie Dickie

    Hippie Dickie The Herbal Cube Manufacturer

    Messages:
    2,495
    Location:
    where the Cube rules!
    OKAY, so i've made a second Case 40, this time using white leather ... and now i need to try a minor size adjustment on the outside leather box (Case 40 is a box inside a box) ... i have just enough leather from my last re-up to make one more case (black exterior, white interior - could be cool, but i have zero design/style sense) as a final test of the design. this weekend.

    THEN i have to order some more leather (and glassware and chargers and power pack circuit boards) for a batch of 6.

    MEANWHILE, after much searching, i stumbled onto a vendor that sells wide and thick Nichrome 80 ribbon (1/8" wide x .0113 thick), so i have a 50' roll headed my way. instead of 24" of wire, the new heater coil will use 11" of ribbon - half the ohms, so maybe 2 to 4 times faster time to vape temp. Which, at 25 seconds now, is not really an issue, since the herb needs to heat soak for at least 60 seconds for a satisfying hit, and twice that is much better.

    BUT, with 1/8" of ribbon against the oven tube, instead of just the point contact of the wire, the heat transfer will be HUGE ... i'm excited to see what this new heater configuration can do. something to try while waiting for parts.

    (sometimes i think i am out of my mind ... not really sure who is leading me down this path ... but an E ticket ride, for sure)

    should be really interesting when i start getting equipment - CNC router, laser cutter/engraver, 3D printer - hey, why not? in for a penny, in for a pound and time is getting short (considering how long it has taken to get to this point).
     
  16. KeroZen

    KeroZen Chronic vapaholic

    Messages:
    2,395
    Location:
    On Air
    Great, I'm eager to hear your results with the ribbon shapped element!
     
  17. Hippie Dickie

    Hippie Dickie The Herbal Cube Manufacturer

    Messages:
    2,495
    Location:
    where the Cube rules!
    @KeroZen - well, just some preliminary testing today.

    i received the nichrome 80 ribbon lickety-split, but had to wait a bit to try it (due to a real world issue, which leads me to believe the retail economy isn't really, really dead ... just mostly dead).

    It turns out i need 13 7/8" to make this coil - 0.44978 ohms, so not much less than the .5 ohm wire coil. This is a test rig using one of the pending BT units:

    [​IMG]

    close up of the coil:
    [​IMG]

    and the other side of the coil - shows the mounting clips - much simpler to mount than the 16awg wire:
    [​IMG]

    turned on and doing its thing:
    [​IMG]

    and the result:

    [​IMG]

    this open air configuration has a problem with the temperature settling down - like a 10°F swing - needs to be in a cube, stat!

    by the way, this will be the coil design going forward - much easier to form the coil using ribbon.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2016
  18. Hippie Dickie

    Hippie Dickie The Herbal Cube Manufacturer

    Messages:
    2,495
    Location:
    where the Cube rules!
    testing continues ...

    i just figured out a nifty way to secure the BBQ thermometer probe against the side of the oven tube ... this has been a construction design problem i have been wrestling with for 7 years ... now solved. i am able to put an indent in the long vertical leg of the ribbon (using a screw driver tip), and the BBQ thermometer probe just snaps right into place, and is tight against the glass - also a problem with the techniques i tried with the wire coil.

    So, half way up the coil is the hottest part of the heater:

    [​IMG]

    now that i have a reliable/consistent thermometer reading, i'm seeing a heating rate of over 20°F per second. the overshoot is up to 440°F for a 390°F setpoint.

    interestingly, if i take a hit at the high temp, the vapor is very wispy. the vial really needs a 60 to 90 second heat soak before it can deliver a satisfying cloud.

    i guess what that means is that this is mostly a radiant heating vape (like a toaster, hence where the Bud Toaster name comes from) - there is just not enough volume of hot air contained in the gap between the oven tube and the vial tube AND the heat transfer is not fast enough despite the fact the heater never drops temp during a hit ... about fourteen years ago, i tried heating a 6" tube, which would be a lot more volume of hot air, and the housing just got too hot - so i abandoned that approach when some simple heat mitigation ideas didn't work ... didn't have the heat shield back then ... may have to revisit this some time.

    now that this problem is solved (for now), it is time to cube it up.
     
  19. Stoomboot

    Stoomboot Active Member

    Messages:
    14
    Location:
    The Netherlands
    Looks awesome Hippie! I had to stare at your pictures for a while before I realised some of the things I was seeing were reflections (almost thought you soldered the thermocouples onto the coil)...

    Recently I also have been experimenting with my temperature sensor mounting. I now have it so it is pushed against the class by the nichrome wire, kinda like you did. Before the sensor was just held onto the coil with a piece of PTFE isolation.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2016
    Hippie Dickie likes this.
  20. jojo monkey

    jojo monkey Well-Known Member Manufacturer

    Messages:
    474
    Why not measure the temps of the vial?
     
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  21. KeroZen

    KeroZen Chronic vapaholic

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    Location:
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    Because the probe would be exposed to the vapor path and could be damaged when inserting the roasting tube.
     
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  22. Hippie Dickie

    Hippie Dickie The Herbal Cube Manufacturer

    Messages:
    2,495
    Location:
    where the Cube rules!
    i have measured the temp in the middle of the herb in the vial in previous tests and the temp in the vial reaches the measured temp (i.e. the oven tube temp) within 5 seconds during a hit. so there is temp equilibrium very quickly, probably due to the small size and proximity of the glassware. so, effectively, the displayed temp is accurate enough, and this current design keeps the vapor path pure ... all glass.
     
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  23. howie105

    howie105 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,211
    Are there any plans to take the Bud Toaster into commercial production?
     
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  24. jojo monkey

    jojo monkey Well-Known Member Manufacturer

    Messages:
    474
    Sorry- I meant the glass that holds the vial. Just asking if reading the temps at the glass has more meaning than directly on the heater. Hippie's last post describing the gap between the heater temp and the amount of time it has been on has me asking.
     
    Hippie Dickie likes this.
  25. Hippie Dickie

    Hippie Dickie The Herbal Cube Manufacturer

    Messages:
    2,495
    Location:
    where the Cube rules!
    ... just waiting for paraphernalia laws to change
     
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