The Baker: By Vaporblunt

I understand everyone's concerns. I assure you that I would never release a product I felt to be unsafe or unhealthy, but I urge you to follow your gut. If you don't feel comfortable, than there are a ton of great products that offer glass air paths.

Thank you pak, I brought a lot of this on myself. I will provide much better service from here on out.

I appreciate you may think that the materials are safe, but more than enough customers have shown the PES (as well as the study posted in the pnp thread) is not safe in the vapor path.

The biggest issue with how you have handled this affair, from someone with oodles of experience deliberating on warranties in various consumer electronics - is you guys never respond to specific customer requests. You have never responded to my long asked and legitimate questions about the safety of PES. Many other members have repeatedly questioned this.

Who told you this material is safe in a vapor path. Are they willing to go on record with exactly what their reason is for this bizarre and on the face of it false idea. In something you inhale air through, you do not want any non herb material deforming/creating it's own vapor during normal operation.

I only got so livid because you have evaded this discussion which in my,mind as a businessperson is crucial to your business getting further.

I am glad to see all this talk of making things right with jilted customers - now lets get down to the nitty gritty!

As you can no doubt see, people here are clued onto the fact that you have a new product. They are just not convinced. If you believe in the product, either show us with a cogent logical argument that the design is safe, and why it does not have such issues as the pnp, or change materials.

I have always maintained that the bullet concept was good, but your choice of materials has caused safety concerns which have gone utterly unaddressed without any modicum of specific explanation by your company on the nature of the issue. We expect people to defend their products. This is business, not personal.

Vaporizers get a lot of use sometimes and need to be designed to function properly without cleaning. Also, the entire vapor path should be cleanable with iso/reclaimable, at the moment your choice of plastic again proves problematic.

Please, respond to these questions and the many others that have emerged whilst you've been avoiding this forum.

Please also know that we realise you have a new product to market. Keep your answers specific and on-topic. I think i speak for more than myself when i say that marketing is something for after these issues are addressed. You have damaged your business through insufficient action on these issues . Now is the time to clean up the mess.

I do not have a new product on the marketplace and I'm not qualified to answer those questions, however I will get you answers and an explanation. The baker has been out for months, check around and you'll see that's a fact. We sold them at the champs show in February, they have been in retail stores for months and available online for months. I believe May 1 was the release for us on retail.

Trust me, if I were looking to sell the baker I sure the fuck wouldn't do it here in this disgruntled thread ; )

I intentionally waited until I had a solution to the people that were angry about the pn pro before I posted again, it has nothing to do with baker.

I will get the information you are asking for to the best of my abilities, but the only question I'm qualified to answer is "who told you...." And that answer is 2 different engineers (I sought a second opinion after the issues with pn pro)

I hope that people appreciate that my comments here are very specific, not self-sealing and do explain how my concerns might be addressed. None of this is intended as general ad hominem attacks.

I don't know these guys personally and who they are personally is not relevant here, I am speaking about the products and their designs specifically. Upon reflection, I wish no ill-will to TVB, but I do believe genuine concerns need to be addressed.

@TherealVaporblunt I appreciate that these kinds of technical questions must be directed to engineers/scientists and most likely the former, since they are more industry friendly with their lingo and affordable for the purpose. However, these engineers really need to substantiate why they think these are acceptable materials. They also need to be shown the pictures of all the melted pongs just so they don't just argue to avoid having to admit an oversight.

Noone likes to be wrong, but it is important on these kinds of things that we get it right if we find problems, quickly. Please do not use PES in your airpath in any future products, hell, see if you can get it out of the Baker units in a practical, phased introduction that won't send you guys broke. PES is perfectly cool (pun intended) outside of the airpath though. Still, be judicious, don't use PES to support the mass of heavier connecting parts (for instance holding a gong onto a vape, connecting the pong/pgong/interim gong to the pnp main assembly, etc) or anywhere that might get warm from use. A sturdy vaporizer is a good vaporizer, inside and outside of the airpath! Any customer will tell you this.

I would like to make polite recommendations to make your products safer. We all just want some honest good faith and due diligence carried out in terms of the sourcing and selection of your materials, especially in the air path. Appropriately glazed ceramic, titanium (preferably gr2 or purer), stainless steel, glass and myriad other materials are safe and delicious when used in air paths.

Sourcing these materials right now for prototypes myself, I know that plenty of these materials can be sourced at reasonable prices and your customers will hugely appreciate the benefits to taste as well as the peace of mind with regard to safety.

I must clarify, I am not a competitor, I do not have any commercial ambitions for my vaporizer at this stage or in the future. My scientific work takes precedent.

I only offer these suggestions to try and turn around what I see as a series of very problematic design decisions. Despite my jadedness with TVB, I have never been able to deny that the bullet design and the PNWT are great concepts/products. This has just made me wish the rest of your designs were on par.

Hope you understand that there is no need to take these comments personally, I also apologise for getting too irate if anyone feels I have. Really we should keep it to the issues.

Hopefully this is a reasonably clear post, I have just woken up lol

I have a meeting tomorrow where I hope to get clarifications on a some of these questions. There is one question or comment that I do know the answer to, and that is the "melted" pongs, it is and always has been our stance that pongs do not melt. The ones that are damaged are degraded (not sure if that's the right word). Even if every single person on here did in fact have a damaged pong, and you multiplied that number by 100 (I picked that number out of thin air) to try to get an idea of how many damaged units are out there, it would still be way less than 1% of our units sold. I'm not denying the problem, I'm just trying to put it in proportion

Edit: I just got back from cana cup in SF, so my math shouldn't be trusted! I think way less than 1% if you multiply by 100 is a slight exaggeration

This is quick cliffs notes of my meeting, I'll fix this post soon.

The PES ring that's fixed temperature and safety explanation

Core max is 780 degrees

Inner temp ceramic reaches max 600 degrees

Second layer ceramic reaches max 480 degrees

Where it touches pes around 410 degrees

Pes tolerance is comfortably 490.

Thankyou for getting this information. Can you confirm that this is the same PES in the PNP? Also, are these the same engineers as you worked with on the PNP?

Now my main concern is with the calculations provided and whether these measurements account for things like atmospheric pressure/ambient temperature. This is a product being sold all around the world after all, these will vary wildly for different customers.

Every Australian I have known with this product but 2 (out of 6) has had either the pong melting/flaking/chipping into their bullet or the top main housing crack. These environmental variables could be an explanation of why. I can also confirm that neither of these issues have happened to two users, who have never used their pnp over setting 2 (one of them occasionally used setting 3). It seems as if settings 4 and 5 are the culprits for melting.

I am sure you can appreciate as an engineer/scientist myself who has owned one of your previous products and had melting/cracking take place, I would be very wary of buying a product which uses the same PES near a hotter element. So are most folks here, I would venture to guess. Other customers outside of this website are generally much less engaged with these aspects of their vaporizers and generally will just vape on despite plastic melting. The only health knowledge the average off-the-street vapist you will find has about their vape is what the manufacturer tells them. They get a bit of melted/deformed/flaked plastic on their PNP and the manufacturer tells them it is nothing to worry about, they vape on as if it never happened.

Especially if they bought your product to quit smoking (which means they are used to harsh taste/dryness similar to that which comes with plastic heat deforming in a vapor path lol).

I'll check on that for you

I think i would like to answer for Vaporblunt due to absence. I've read this thread start to finish over the past few days. (Was sold by page 17 and ordered before any issues were brought up.) From what I have read, there has been only one complaint on this forum with regards to the actual baker. The baker mentioned was purchased second hand, for a sum of 130. That one sounds like someone got ripped off and is pissed rather than an actual faulty product. Everyone's issue is with the PNP which is a portable unit... people are saying the plastic is cracking and melting at the 5 temp. The only person that has a picture posted on this feed of the faulty mouthpiece on the PNP looks exactly what Vaporblunt said the mouthpiece should not look like. There was tons of oil or wax residue all over the piece. The buildup is caused by oil vapor cooling within the mouthpiece. When you use flowers, the buildup is not even close to the same. If you allow several layers to build up, and have a prolonged session with high temps, the plastic of the mouthpiece will never touch the vapor. you will have oil residue being heated by more hot vapor. If the hot wax residue sits in the mouthpiece for long periods, it seems impossible to avoid damage. The moral of all this is to tell the Pinnacle Pro haters that Vaporblunt has given legitimate answers based on what I've read. If you are going to use wax with a portable, be aware of what you are using. The Pinnacle uses plastic on the mouthpiece and residue will build up much more so than a glass mouthpiece. Vaporblunt has yet to produce a vape with a anything other than plastic. Stop asking them for glass. Like he said, the plastic is FDA approved. If you don't believe his engineers there are plenty of other problems.

As for the Baker "heat issues." This forum is about the only place online to find a good discussion on this particular product. No other youtube videos, or really reviews from anyone at all. based on what i have seen from BlazingOG's vids, this is a vape that can be dialed in as well as any whip on the market plus the neat dabs feature. People on here keep asking about the plastic and parts on this thing heating up. Herbivore21, I do not mean to call you out in any way but you are the most recent post so i guess this is just an answer to your questions. If pes tolorance is 490, there should be no issue ever. vaping dry flowers above 450 is not in any way beneficial other than making thinker clouds. Nearly all resins contained within dry flowers will vaporize just over 400F. I know everyone wants huge thick clouds like BlazingOG, but he's even telling you that he's using such high temps to illustrate the potential lungbusting potential of the product. I understand everyone wants to be able to have the product hit temp and be able to rip like a hookah, but for this unit that was obviously not the designers intent. when using the pong with or without the whip do as BlazingOG suggests, let your bullet heat soak. wait 20 to 30 seconds before rips and take your time! Enjoy some flavor and wait for the effects rather than racing. This unit can be used quickly as BlazingOG showed us, but I believe based on what i've seen and read that this unit will produce as claimed.

Back to the safety "issues" with using the same plastic as PNP. If a person does not use the pong above 450 there will be no issue ever. when using dabs and the dome, everyone seems to be worried about the thin plastic layer just inside the glass. Several people on here seem to know a thing or two about science, but no one understands heat..

Herbivore21- It does not matter if the same materials are used in this as the PNP. This handheld unit heated up to 470F.(much hotter than what is practical for dry flowers) In the PNP mouthpiece photo on this forum, the damaged mouthpiece looks exactly what the user error damage Vaporblunt described earlier. If you don't use the pong abot 450, again, not an issue.

As for the vapor dome. the Titanium bullet, having no screen, uses 0 convection. the core of the unit and bullet itself are the only things heating up to the 780. the insulating ceramic surrounding the chamber hits 600 while the outer core hits only 480. Even when you put a dab in the bullet at 780F and all that vapor explodes out last for around 3-5 seconds. Any moment the dab hole is not covered, there is more ambient air being sucked through that large carb hole and cooling the temp inside the dome very efficiently. Even BlazingOG's very impressive and large dab clouds last a few seconds. there is no slow hot baking vapor sitting in airways or mouthpieces like in the PNP. So based on everything I've read, I will admittedly not be jumping in line for a PNP anytime soon. But no one here has been able to provide any factual information that would change my mind about my order.

Im a brand new member so I apologize for offending anyone. BlazingOG- Awesome videos, thank you for your helpful pics, words, and vids
Stickstones- All good input, very well thought out responses.
Herbivore21- Very good questions for vaporblunt
TheRealVaporblunt- Owner of palm 2.0, and looking forward to trying out my baker.

lol how did I get ripped off when I paid less than what it was going to retail for? Im not pissed about anything and bought it on a whim with the intention of pushing it to its limits and then taking it apart to see what it was exactly and how it was built. You definitely got the wrong impression from my posts, guy.

Sorry if i came of rude in my post. The point of the comment i made meant more that this was a secondhand product you had no way of knowing if it worked as it did out of the factory. I believe you were aware of the risks involved in making a purchase like this, but as you said, you paid half of retail and were more interested in the guts and learning how it works than getting your hands on the best possible product. My post was already very long and i figured if it got any wordier then people would skip over it. But i understand what you meant in your post, i was unclear in my and again my apologies

I agree with you here, plenty of "problems" indeed. Your post ignores the degrading PonGs we had with the OG Pinnacle. Also, when the "plastic" starts to degrade when exposed to ISO like mine did you can't guarantee its safety any more imho.

haha sorry about the typo. Obviously meant products but plastic is not meant to be cleaned with ISO. Any plastic product, whether used for vaping or the plastic on an xbox would become brittle and porous when exposed to ISO. And like I stated in my first post. I'm defending the baker. I've done next to no research on is as i am not interested in a portable unit at this time. But for the OG Pinnacle, use warm water to clean pieces and use concentrates in another device. Like I said Im on here defending the baker simply because people have tried to associate the PNP problems with the baker when the units simply operate too differently at high temps to compare. Above 450 on the baker dome it up.( Not saying do dabs at 470) While whith the PNP and OG Pinnacle the vapor goes through the entirely plastic mouthpiece very slowly and sits there when you are done drawing. the baker never lets the vapor touch the plasic long. Even in Blazing OG's videos where he is heat soaking his bullets, almost not vapor escapes through the pong because no convection occurs until you start to draw.

Hey @TherealVaporblunt, I'm curious, Did you make it to the LA cannabis cup this year?? Also, Did you place for an award?

I think that sounds like a good way to define it stickstones!

Happy to revive the conversation if only for a bit. Mine is in the mail and I would love to see some reports of BAKER users now that the product has actually been available to the public for a few months. Still only seem to see info from beta testers. Ill have feedback up by Tuesday night. Hope to see more videos. Would love to see a whip session with a good heat soak, long slow draws, and at least 30 seconds between rips!! Ive only been able to find use with a waterpipe and with the oil dome.

No problem jrk4d. Im glad this post was revived and I hope to hear of more people using it because so far I dont think anyone here has reviewed an actual production unit, if Im not mistaken so yours will be the first. Im interested to hear what you have to say about it when you get it! Ill be keeping an eye on this thread now that it has some activity.