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The All-glass airpath obsession...

Discussion in 'Ask FC' started by PPN, Mar 27, 2014.

  1. PPN

    PPN Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    950
    I noticed that several news vapes are claiming that a all glass airpath = purity of flavors but we can see that some of the better vapes in the market are not compound of glass at all, for example the HA 2.2 which taste really good for the price, the Sublimator, e_nano,...(I think the water filtration that you add after is not totally the airpath) and the better of all imho, the Minivap (there is no glass into).

    And the vapes claiming to be all glass airpath are really a few to be really all glass airpath, for me the ascent is not really a all glass vape, just the stem is all glass (like the solo) but the Cloud or HI (glass core) are really all glass airpath.

    Perhaps I misunderstood something about the air path but I thought that it starts where there is the air inlets for fresh air and it finish in your mouth to taste the vapor.....isn't it? (in the Ascent only 50% of the airpath is all glass.....?)

    So my question is : why engineers are choosing glass since we can get the same purity of taste with more durable and lighter elements? Is it because glass is cheaper than medical quality synthetic elements? Is it because customers prefer glass?


    Thanks for your replies guys! I hit my nano and I come back here....
     
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  2. hoptimum

    hoptimum Well-Known Member

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    1,116
    I've seen that trend as well, and I'm not necessarily convinced that just because the air path travels only through glass that its necessarily tastier than other delivery methods, like a whip. For instance, I don't believe the Cloud is any tastier or hits any harder than the Silver Surfer through a whip. But that's just my opinion.
     
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  3. max

    max Bingo Coordinator Staff Member

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    9,381
    All glass - marketing or taste? It's both. Not everyone has the same taste buds, anymore than they do the same eyesight, hearing range, or sense of smell. It's just a feature-important for some and not for others.
     
  4. smokum

    smokum I am who I am and your approval isn't needed!

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    Location:
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    I believe there is a place for any and all forms of different design and material(s). The personality & preference differences among people are vast, and the market is open to this as any other piece of merchandise with varying construction(s).

    For myself... I prefer a mouthpiece made of glass (Solo) since recessing the goods slightly into the stem to not seer them provides to 'me' what I'm satisfied with in a result. Noteworthy, is that I'm obviously one of those with a more sensitive palate that picks up the taste of metals, where others may not.

    * I just realized that I'm pretty f'n wasted, as I keep reading my intended post and it makes no sense... so I change it. But then, THAT doesn't end up sounding right, so I change it again. And it's turning into never ending circle ! :hmm: <----- FUCK... I'm doing it again ! :mental:

    Nothing to see here ... Move along :shrug:
     
  5. PPN

    PPN Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    950
    And the price of the glass seems cheaper since the Versa fiasco (I anticipate too much here!)

    But I'm convinced the glass taste good since I'm a happy Cloud+ owner but I can see many high ends products (Herbalizer, Minivap,;..) exempt of glass.
    The problem of a true all glass vape like the Cloud (evo now) is to carry too much breaking issues (the famous bamboo) and it's not really durable (I keep my fingers crossed everydays when I start my Cloud+).

    So I think the future of vaporisation is not glass made (except for water filtration fan but any needs for the vaporizer itself).

    Edit: about the marketing there is the Bholt story, a bad product marketed around its glass components and i was one of the first to fall in this "stratageme":bang:
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2014
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  6. natural farmer

    natural farmer god is in the neurons...

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    Nice thread! My humble opinion is that glass doesn't necessarily give the best taste. The same good taste with other materials most probably. My Lotus and it's wood-chrome-SS-anodized aluminum air/vapor pathway tastes every bit as good as my Hot Pod tasted with it's wood-glass-ceramic-SS-glass pathway or as my Firefly tastes with it's super alloy-ceramic-SS-glass-SS plating pathway. Vere very similar. Only differences are in different load sizes and temps... Even Cloud is not all glass. It's glass-SS-glass. Nano is aluminum-ceramic-SS-glass. I think only the Gn0mes are all glass, right? But people say they have amazing taste!

    And most importantly. Inert materials by themselves don't necessarily give you the best taste possible. How heat is applied plays a major role. Conduction sucks in taste compared to convection. That's no secret...
     
  7. Mr. Gweilo 420

    Mr. Gweilo 420 Dude

    Messages:
    1,133
    Location:
    The Far East
    I like a glass stem or mouthpiece the most. I have an elaborate glass setup with the Versa Infinity and my all glass hookah. Yet still before the vapor travels through the final 12 inches of glass mouthpiece to my lips it must first travel through 2 feet of medical grade tubing. I do not believe this has any negative effect. However, against my lips wood and plastic can not compare to glass imo.
     
  8. Stu

    Stu Maconheiro Staff Member

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    Location:
    Southeast of Disorder
    Vapolution is all glass in the airpath as well. ;)


    :peace:
     
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  9. stickstones

    stickstones Eccentric of mist Staff Member

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    8,507
    The herbalaire tastes great mostly due to using unground bud.
     
  10. gangababa

    gangababa Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    center of the jagat
    This Newbie has an Ascent. Knowing nothing, I began vaporizer shopping. I needed portability and did not need to consider sharing, nor connecting to any other piece.
    I quickly learned much about my likely options. Da Vinci's 'glass on glass' was good marketing. Seemingly endless reading here at FC about the Ascent did not dissuade me from purchasing.
    I lack the experience, the taste, the 'tasties' to speak of connoisseur questions; considering though, buying an Arizer Solo. I hear it has an all glass vapor path.

    So far I am happy with this gong. As I see it, whatever the material of the pathway, whatever the material pathing (sic) through, it all comes in on the atmospheric air after having been breathed out by countless other lungs.
     
  11. paytonpenn

    paytonpenn Level 30 Nature/Healer

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    1,181
    Not trying to impede the dead thread.
    @natural farmer I find conduction tastes way better in the beginning in comparison to convection.
     
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  12. Abysmal Vapor

    Abysmal Vapor Shaman of The Pyramid of Orlin'Malah

    Messages:
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    Location:
    7th heaven - 666th pit
    +1 Gnome is the best tasting vaporizer out there .Vapocane is all glass too.. but the taste is worse than the gnome because the airsteam temp varies too much , the gnome stability and the fastened airflow by the ribbed heat exchanger did some venturi effect which stirred the herb around + in the slider version you can rotate either the mouthpiece or the heat exchanger and get stir while vape option which compliments the release of taste even further..
    Best thing for me to see is the Gnome Heater Wrapped arround with heating coil and temp control :).
     
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  13. Egzoset

    Egzoset 1SipAToke/Blender Vaporist (v3.1)

    Messages:
    2,937
    Location:
    Shawinigan/Qc, Canada
    Salutations PPN,

    It's such a relief to read this, at last poetry to make my day! :nod:

    Lets have a look:

    Ah yes, one of those "See-Thru" concepts which happen to be too rare for some reason...

    Well, ain't that ceramic in the bowl that we can see here?

    Hummm... I'd say significantly more than only 50 % of the cannabic path goes through vitrous/innert material anyway! :tup:

    What's behind? Well, i tried hard to gather details without much success i must admit. If i'm not mistaking some direct proximity exists with the power connector and its supporting printed circuit-board, etc. Moreover it looks pretty much like no effort was made to keep the air/cannabic paths contained and separated.

    I could find 2 photographs out there in Google land which may actually prove to be useful in response to your question:


    In my opinion the glass frenzy got a lot more attention if we compare to the inlet side which was implemented as if it hasn't been planned from the start...

    [​IMG]

    Oh, really i'd like to read it from them too!!

    :D

    Have you seen my pictures of the Prometheus pipe posted recently? Now that's quite how i like glass to be put to good use, more the stem (almost built with "reclaims" in mind!) than its glass bowl (hardly appropriate for my personnal preference) - not to mention this is smoker material, unfortunately!

    But should you want to read it from me i'd comment that the idea of huge metallic surfaces as in the FireFly and/or EleVape Smart isn't likely to be a better option to me taste-wise. Also, how do you reclaim from those?...

    While a glass tube inserted in the cannabic path fits its purpose perfectly (over a relatively short distance), the rest can be ceramic and/or possibly some metal - which is what appears to be the case on the opposite side of the Ascent bowl.

    Taken separetely i'll say that glass, ceramic and metal all sound good. But the problem i see would be about proper containment and isolation from any potential contaminant source.

    :peace:
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2014
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  14. stickstones

    stickstones Eccentric of mist Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,507
    The Ascent's ceramic bowl is glass lined, so it is an all glass air path from the heated bowl to your lips.

    Glass tastes pure, no way around it. But that doesn't mean other materials don't work as well when used properly. @natural farmer touched on it in his post, but I think the more important question is what the heating element is made of. The nice thing about the Cloud is that the only material heating up the air is glass. I can taste the difference between this and something like an Iolite or older log vape that used a lot of ss to transfer the heat to the air. The best way to test this is to compare second and third hits since the first hit in any vape will have most of the terps for flavor. The three things that I find effect the taste most in order are:
    1 -- ground bud vs. whole nugs
    2 -- temperature of the vape
    3 -- heating element and air path construction

    I can also taste the difference between hitting my Herbalizer through its whip versus directly to a hydra tube.

    I don't think the air path before the heating element is of much concern to us in regards to taste or safety.
     
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  15. charliedontsurf

    charliedontsurf Glassblower

    Messages:
    2,208
    Location:
    West Coast
    I can absolutely taste the difference between an all glass airpath and one which involves all those myriad other compounds we often expose ourselves too, such as plastics, wood, solder (eek), and god knows what else. There may very well be cutting edge ceramics which offer a similar level of purity and their extensive use throughout a vaporizer may yield a better product with greater durability, but as far as I've tried, glass is unquestionably king. In many regards I feel that the glass intensive vapes I've owned (Vapolution, Cloud+, Vriptech, Gn0me, Vapocane) were the best purchases and many of the other units weren't necessarily up to their level. Of course portables like the Solo and MFLB have their place as well because sadly an all glass electronic portable that really performs isn't on the market yet.
     
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  16. weedemon

    weedemon enthusiast

    Messages:
    2,758
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    the cloud isn't all glass imo. that ez bowl is not glass. it's a great vape, but I feel that statement is not totally true. I love the evo so i let it slide...

    I think people like "all glass" because it's a known safe building material. it's in laboratory experiments and that's good enough for my standards too. my only true all glass vape is my gn0me. as long as a vape does not off gas dangerous byproducts then I am happy.

    that said. the herbie and the sublimator are both not glass. and they are great. imo the herbie is the best tasting of the bunch!
     
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  17. EveryDayAmnesiac

    EveryDayAmnesiac Bad news from the stars.

    Messages:
    2,024
    For the sake of correctness, I'll just add that the HI with glass HEATER COVER is not an all-glass airpath. There's a little bit of SS in the heater, so it's not 100% accurate to say "glass core."

    I mean no offense, just nitpicking.

    Air goes in through the bottom cap and glides over that heater before leaving.

    Taste is fantastic. :science:
     
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  18. RUDE BOY

    RUDE BOY Space is the Place

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    2,965
    Isn't Ceramic actually Glass ?
     
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  19. MG23

    MG23 Relaxin'

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  20. PPN

    PPN Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    950
    I started this thread cause I have doubts about the fact glass equal good taste, since my tastier vape is the Minivap(far away the others) and there is no glass into!
    Since I made 2 others experience which convince me if the glass airpath could help there is a lot of factors to think about!

    1st: tried a hammer stem as a glass capsule in my Inhalater Xp= if it tastes better it's very subtle, not a game changer!

    2nd: I upgraded my tasty FW V1 to the 2.1 (with glass capsule and glass oven)= I prefered the taste of my V1 (flower taste versus baked taste)

    And in term of flavor (and efficiency and clouds and....) my Minivap is the better (yes better taste than the Cloud+ imho) it tastes good from the first draw to the last one, you can use the higher level and taste your flower and it never becomes harsh!(vapor becomes hot but taste is still floral)

    I read there is lot of flavor chaser here, you'll love the MV and sometime I think that I wasting my flowers with others vapes (especially portables, only my TV evo taste good since I upgraded my FW).

    If the glass could help to get a good taste I'm sure the heating system and the ability to don't create too much conduction (and that's why glass could be not the better since it stocks the heat) are the keys for a good taste (since the airpath purity is an evidence now!)

    The herbalizer seems to be in the same kind of the MV, built without components able to stock the heat so they are able to control the t° very good (VS the Cloud+ which stock lot of heat, heat retention) but I never try it...
     
  21. Hippie Dickie

    Hippie Dickie The Herbal Cube Manufacturer

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    Location:
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    (hard for me to stay out of thread about "all glass airpath" ... and yes, i'm obsessed/obsessive)

    glass is amorphous and ceramic can be either crystalline or amorphous, with the most common ceramic being of the crystalline variety (according to that wiki article). but i personally don't consider borosilicate glass to be a ceramic.

    after using a vape with a totally all glass airpath for over 8 years, i would never consider buying a vape that isn't. plus it must have a temperature display and computer controlled heater that can maintain plus/minus 1°F.

    but that's just me.
     
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  22. FlyingLow

    FlyingLow Team NO SLEEP!

    Messages:
    1,369
    I used to obsess over all glass paths, then I tried a lotus... my theories were shot!
     
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  23. Meremoth

    Meremoth AKA ♫ Stinky Wizzleteats ♫

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    Location:
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    Isn't glass inert, impermeable, non-reactive, and chemically more stable compared to other materials? Glass just seems to make more sense. But I also think glass tastes better. I mean, go smoke out of a plastic bong or pipe and then a glass one and tell me you can't tell a difference. Shouldn't the same apply to vaporizers? Also, I'm curious as to how much thc, cannabanoids, and all the other good stuff is lost and/or attached to other materials compared to glass.
     
  24. DieHard

    DieHard Vertical transportation specialist.

    Messages:
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    Location:
    Limbo
    @Meremoth
    If you put sticky bud in a Baggie, there will be trichs stuck inside the bag. If you put them in a glass, jar that is not usually the case. I think it has something to do with static electricity or electric charge (molecular polarity) but not sure. :shrug::science:
     
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  25. hoptimum

    hoptimum Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,116
    Lotus, Firefly, Heat Island, Silver Surfer and many others all have excellent flavor. Glass airpath is not the only way to get there.
     

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