1. What does SSTB mean? See our glossary of acronyms.
    Dismiss Notice

Terp Sauce ???

Discussion in 'Concentrates' started by VAPEHUNTER, Jul 10, 2018.

  1. VAPEHUNTER

    VAPEHUNTER Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    889
    Location:
    LAS VEGOOSE, NV
    Help me out here. Can anyone explain why it’s better and how it is derived...in simple terms?
    Is the extra $$$ really worth it?
    Everything I read looks really good but it seems very complicated.
    I have access to it but it’s very new to me. What should I be looking for?
    :peace:
     
    StormyPinkness and Morty like this.
  2. TheWhisper

    TheWhisper Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    444
    I'm curious to know too — I've heard several people talking about it recently.
     
    StormyPinkness likes this.
  3. StormyPinkness

    StormyPinkness Rhymenocerous ʕ•ᴥ•ʔ

    Messages:
    2,032
    Location:
    California
    I can try, I was hoping someone more knowledgeable than me would post.

    The way I read about it is they take something like shatter and age it. Over time it starts to separate and part of it crystallizes while another part turns into more of a liquid. Then they separate the crystals from the sauce.

    An example that made sense to me is what happens with old chocolate. Eventually the milk/fat migrates to the surface and crystallizes, giving it that weird white coating.

    I'm a little fuzzy on what happens after this, I'm not sure if the sauce and crystals get aged more. I think they filter the sauce, but again I'm not really sure. Eventually it get's added back together, or maybe the big crystals are sold separate from smaller ones in the sauce. The crystals can have crazy high thc levels around 80%-90% while the sauce can be around 20%-30%.

    So far for me sometimes terp sauce is super flavorful and sometimes not, it depends. Same for how strong it is, most of what I've gotten is pretty strong though. So far for me the bigger the crystals the higher I get. It's amazing how strong one of the crystals can be and how long it will vape for.

    Hopefully a more knowledgeable fc'er can fact check this post.

    Edit: Here's a pic of the kind of terp sauce I'm talking about, I've heard it called a couple different things.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2018
    zor, tennisguru1, Vicki and 1 other person like this.
  4. BabyFacedFinster

    BabyFacedFinster Capo di tutt'i capi

    Messages:
    1,162
    Thanks @StormyPinkness for this info. I have also been trying to learn more about the sauces. I also found this article which goes into so much info that I kind of get lost in it, but it was helpful also.
    https://hightimes.com/guides/what-is-live-resin-sauce/

    I recently bought two types of sauce and had no idea what I was getting into. One is more terpene forward and it looks more like a thick jam. It is very flavorful and packs a very good punch. The other one is supposedly more THC forward. It looks more like yours with the crystals and sauce mixed. The flavor is not as strong but it is probably the most intense medicine I have ever tried. I'm actually a little afraid of it as it puts me over the top with even the tiniest of dabs.

    I recommend caution when working through these concentrates, especially for the first time. I watch some youtubers grabbing huge globs of this shit and taking one dab after the next and I'm like :o
     
    StormyPinkness likes this.
  5. Silver420Surfer

    Silver420Surfer Well-Known Member

    Live resin/live nectar/sauce/HTFSE/FSE is NOT made by making shatter and then growing crystals.

    Tons of info from other places on the web and most companies won't give you their exact process, but youtube or google will give you better insight. We can't discuss cultivation here so I doubt they want us discussing concentrate manufacturing.
     
  6. StormyPinkness

    StormyPinkness Rhymenocerous ʕ•ᴥ•ʔ

    Messages:
    2,032
    Location:
    California
    I went back and read the thing again and some replies were saying it wasn't right so I probably read something wrong. Sounds like terp sauce is not nucleated shatter, sorry about that. I guess we're not supposed to talk about it on here anyways, I didn't know that.

    Edit: I also 100% agree with you on being careful with the strength, I've never gotten so high so fast.
     
    BabyFacedFinster likes this.
  7. BabyFacedFinster

    BabyFacedFinster Capo di tutt'i capi

    Messages:
    1,162
    Yeah, in particular those crystals are almost all THC and will put a hurtin' on you if not careful. I'm thinking how am I going to use that sauce with the crystals/diamonds/caviar or whatever you call them. Mine are small like the little egg roe you get in sushi restaurants. I think one or two eggs on a bed of flower or mixed in with something less strong.
     
    StormyPinkness likes this.
  8. MegaMan2k

    MegaMan2k Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    264
    I thought terp sauce simply referred to mixing canna derived terpenes with some fullmelt concentrate. Or does it have to involve some sort of diamonds/crystals to qualify?
     
    Diggy Smalls and StormyPinkness like this.
  9. looney2nz

    looney2nz Research Geek, Mad Scientist

    Messages:
    698
    Location:
    So Cal
    @divinetribe wanna weigh in? :)

    I'm by no means the expert, but here's what I think I know so far :)

    Live Rosin - is made in a rosin press, under many tons of pressure and moderate amounts of heat, this melts the trichomes directly off the bud onto parchment or silicone. Quality varies greatly depending on the manufacturer and their approach.

    Live Resin - is made in a butane process, uses flower that is flash frozen and then later processed like BHO.

    Sauce - is made from live resign, but I'm not precisely clear on what makes the saucy part and what makes the 'crystals' part (one place described the crystals as THCa, that makes no sense to me). It is a butane process, but I don't know what follows that.

    CO2 oil also varies by manufacturer, some tune their systems to maintain more cannabinoids and terpenes, some mix some non-decarb'd oil back in. I'm still pining for the return of PopNaturals in CA, they made an excellent CO2 oil, more entourage and flavor.

    Distillate manufacturers, while I've seen a number of them sell stuff with terpenes mixed back in or FLAVORS (gack!), isolated compounds do not benefit from the entourage effect, while they can be useful on their own (CBD, THCa in particular), more often than not the overall benefit is much higher if the entourage effect is in play.

    Sadly, I'm seeing an explosion of Distillate manufacturers... I think one of them actually fingerprinted the terpenes of their grow and recreated that fingerprint by adding them back, but the other cannabinoids, not so much :( And these folks were the exception, not the rule.
     
  10. Vicki

    Vicki Herbal Alchemist

    Messages:
    6,978
    That’s exactly what I’m doing right now. I’m making my own cartridges using THC distillate mixed with Fogg terpenes.
     
    Diggy Smalls likes this.
  11. tepictoton

    tepictoton Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,570
    Location:
    a funny place called earth
    Sauce and crystals are result of storing unpurged bho at low temperatures, really really low like - 70 degrees or even lower.

    This is first left at these temperatures for a week or two, untill you see the first sings of crystal formation appearing on the side walls of your glass pot.

    At this point, they let part of the butane evaporate and store it back under those really low temps. Now the crystals will start to grow bigger. The sauce is then indeed the terpene soup that is left besides the crystals.

    I myself do not like this, I think this meses up the exact ratio of compounds that exist in the plant?

    Also, pure thc, as in those crystals (almost pure) for me personaly does not have an enjoyable effect. Thc when used alone definately has the tendency to give a paranoic effect.
     
  12. MegaMan2k

    MegaMan2k Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    264
    Interresting i always thought the crystals was the result from purging everything out includining the terps and leaving you with this 99% thc-a rock almost.
     
  13. Diggy Smalls

    Diggy Smalls Notorious

    Messages:
    1,334
    Location:
    Land of Confusion
    Ok, so I would not be surprised if a lot of manufacturers are using flavorings and essential oils in their concentrates of all different types. There is so very little oversight available, and many companies available at dispensaries in some states don't even have websites where there have the chance to lie about how awesome their practices are. I'm sure there are some legit concentrate artists that do this. So with cbd isolate, you can add these flavorings back in by way of a viscous stuff being marketed as terpenes. Some of the terpenes are strong cleaning agents in concentrated doses. All those terpenes burned my throat pretty badly. It's all about flavor right now. I'm not convinced it's safe to play around with vaporizing concentrated essential oils. I have a much more pleasant experience using a straight cbd isolate without making it into a cbd terp sauce.
    They could go through a mysterious process to create this product and hide the process from the public...or they could be adding plant derived terpene mixtures to thc crystals until they get their desired consistency. Look around at the grocery store labels...natural flavoring is in everything....terpenes affect the flavor...

    Hey, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm just paranoid.
     
  14. looney2nz

    looney2nz Research Geek, Mad Scientist

    Messages:
    698
    Location:
    So Cal
    well, like I said, I'm by no means the expert on this topic, if we can get Matt involved (@divinetribe), he knows this stuff cold (no pun intended). Maybe @Vape Donkey 650 will chime in too :)

    so how are they achieving -70F?

    when they DO purge it, is it in a vacuum?

    I hope to gawd this stuff is tested, nobody needs HEXANE in their meds.
     
    szai likes this.
  15. tepictoton

    tepictoton Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,570
    Location:
    a funny place called earth
    The cold temperatures are achieved by using dry ice

    And normaly they do purge under vacuum.
     
    looney2nz likes this.
  16. Roth

    Roth Pining for the Mountains

    Messages:
    1,042
    @SamuraiSam have any knowledge you'd be willing to share?
     
    StormyPinkness and SamuraiSam like this.
  17. SamuraiSam

    SamuraiSam Extraction Technician

    Messages:
    935
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    I'm really beat up from a car accident last week so I'm not going to go into nearly the depth i would usually try to help explain more details.. I'm sorry to say that most of what I skimmed over in the first few posts is just.. not accurate.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/CannabisEx...rify_sauce_it_almost_looks/dmrtx38/?context=3

    Sauce is not "aged shatter" of any sort. Shatter has much, much lower terpene content than sauce, which gets its thin consistency from its high terpene content. You can't start with a 2% terp content shatter and somehow age it and get a 20% terpene content sauce. That's impossible. The high terpene sauces I produce are a single pass hydrocarbon extract. I use cold temperatures and a propane dominant blend of LPG (with some butane too of course) to extract as much terpenes as possible out of the plant material I process and the terpenes themselves provide a low viscosity mother liquor to promote THCA crystallization.

    This term "Live Rosin" is bunk. This descrpition is bunk

    this is bs. What is "Live" about this process? The only people I see using this term (And I do seem them out on reddit or reading a high times article or something dumb) have never tried to make it. Here's a hint, if you take a fresh frozen bud like you'd use to process live resin, and try to squish it between heated plates with tons of pressure and heat, you will squish out an uncollectable wet slightly oily mess. Why? The "live" bud you squished with heat is mostly water because you didn't dry it to keep it live. Live Resin hydrocarbon processing relies on subzero temperatures from the moment of harvest onwards, including during the entirety of the extraction process with subzero solvent temperatures and subzero material temperatures throughout the run to ensure that the frozen water is kept as ice and is not extracted during the process.

    Another hint. Allowing high concentrations of terpenes to contact parchment paper is dumb. You do not want to press high terpene rosin under pressure and heat, with parchment paper, unless you REALLY want to dab silicone. You can simply look at the parchment paper and see that what was once opaque is now transparent.

    THCA is heavier than the terpenes (and excess solvent that some leave behind) so it falls to the bottom and under the right conditions, will attach moluecule-by-molecule to itself forming pure crystals of THCA. They are all part of one whole.

    Have you ever heard of Shatter, Wax, Budder, Pull & Snap? These are all simply descriptors for texture, and so is "Sauce". If you can stir it or pour it like a tomato sauce in a pot, it's sauce. If it's thick and gooey and crystally and you couldn't pour it, it's not sauce. Tomato sauce often has big chunks of tomato. That's sauce. If it doesn't and it's all thin like it got blended with an immersion blender - still sauce to me.

    What don't you understand about "the crystals being THCA"? That is what those crystals are. They are crystallized THCA.

    CO2 has nothing to do with HTE / terp sauce discussion. It's a completely different product chemically than a single pass hydrocarbon extraction with nothing added or removed.

    Please do not confuse one particular method of producing sauce, with the definition of sauce. One absolutely does not need to "store unpurged bho at low temperatures" in order to produce sauce.

    Perhaps by your method, but I'm finished by this point.

    You do you. Don't tell me what I'm doing, because it's nothing remotely like this.

    Really. Please tell me how.

    I'm just not sure where the discussion is going at this point. Anyone "could" do anything and cut any drug with any other substance. I work in a regulated market which seeks to prevent the occurance of such things.

    Or a recirculating chiller. I don't use dry ice.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2018
    zor, Shooby, shredder and 2 others like this.
  18. tepictoton

    tepictoton Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,570
    Location:
    a funny place called earth
    Live rosin refers to hash made from freshly washed plants, and then pressing that hash. :2c:

    And please @SamuraiSam : I was just mentioning a method to get to sauce and or diamonds. I am not saying anywhere that I myself am doing this nor you. So please, read before commenting in such a downplaying manner:\

    If you extact crystals and separate them from the sauce you will alter the balance once found in the plant material. Vaping a crystal of thc-a (dibbed or not in sauce) will definately give you another ratio of active compounds then vaping a well made more or less full spectrum extract which preserves the ratios found in the plant material. I personaly prefer the second... But to each his own...
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2018
  19. SamuraiSam

    SamuraiSam Extraction Technician

    Messages:
    935
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    I am attempting to downplay nothing, besides assumptions. I grow tired of people telling me that crystals must be crashed out with cold temperatures, or excess solvent has to be left to provide a solvent liquid for crystalization to proceed in, or that the whole process has to take months. I grow crystals every day without doing those things, and I'm sure there are many ways to produce high terpene extracts that I myself am not aware of too!

    I didn't know we were discussing extracting crystals from a sauce. Sure, since you are removing THCA from the terpene heavy fraction, you'll alter the terpene : thca ratio. You don't have to do that when producing sauce, though, and can leave everything intact as a whole for an accurate representation of the terpenes:cannabinoids the flower presented. I would argue that since the production of HTE more fully extracts the terpenes present in the flower, that it is a more full spectrum representation than, say, shatter, which generally tends to use a shorter duration rinse with butane, which has an effect of extracting less terpenes than the propane heavy blends that many sauce makers lean towards.

    Vaping a crystal of THCA dipped in sauce can absolutely deliver the same ratio of cannabinoids and terpenes and found in the plant material. Why wouldn't it? If you buy a gram of sauce that has 600mg of THCA crystals and 400mg of HTE liquid. And you stir that up and take a dab that's 1/20th of the gram- that has 30mg of THCA crystals and 20mg of HTE liquid. That's the same ratio...

    You're welcome to your opinion on the validity of the term "Live Rosin", I was replying to a previous poster who I quoted, and who stated: "this melts the trichomes directly off the bud onto parchment or silicone" which does not work. I have tried doing that myself, and it doesn't work. The method described doesn't produce a useable product and is not "Live Rosin". I understand this term making it's way in to the vernacular in a wholly different meaning, the method you describe, by squishing fresh frozen bubble hash. If you want to use that term that way, go for it! I'm not going to use it, but again, you do you.

    When one is working with dried hashish, and not live plants, I don't think it's appropriate to use the term "Live." This poaching of the term "Live", which Kind Bill created due to the preservation of the plant's live characteristics, just doesn't make sense to me. I've run live resin from plants that were harvested an hour previously. That can't be done with the hash-first-then-dry-then-rosin "Live Rosin" approach. So to me, as a solvent extractor that makes Live Resin, that's not quite a "Live" process. It can be a fantastic quality product! I have made it myself, I really do enjoy making whole plant fresh frozen hash, and have rosined a bit of WPFF hash in my past, and I do purchase and consume hash rosin on the regular, but I don't buy "Live Rosin". You won't find any hash makers calling their WPFF "Live Hash" so why call a product post-processed from that "Live Rosin"?

    Baroni, created by Chris Barone & processed by the strait concentrates crew, (which is rosin pressed from liquid nitrogen hash) seems like it could approximate the fresh, live qualities of live resin, since the A. nitrogen purges immediately at room temperature and requires no time in a dry room or freeze dryer and B. the process up until the squishing of the hash can be carried out at sub-freezing temperatures. But even they don't call that process Live Rosin. It's a special and unique thing in it's own right, so they call it such - Baroni. LNHO - Liquid Nitrogen Hash Oil.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2018
    Shooby, shredder and Roth like this.
  20. subway13029

    subway13029 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,821
    Location:
    Duval
    Wow this thread is mean..basically if you aren’t a scientist then don’t comment here..I know one thing..I like to dab sauce and diamonds..
     
    wild anchovy and looney2nz like this.
  21. looney2nz

    looney2nz Research Geek, Mad Scientist

    Messages:
    698
    Location:
    So Cal
    @SamuraiSam , I'm the poster who disclaimed it with 'I'm by no means an expert, here's what I think I understand", cause there were some wild claims that preceded it.
    I tried to pull in a couple people I knew would know the real answers, you beat them to it?

    As someone else who's ALSO in ridiculous pain, I relate, but educating someone is still vastly preferable to making assumptions and bagging on them.

    I'm not the one who chose the term live rosin or live resin, these are two of the confusing terms this industry has chosen to use. If you've read any of my other posts, I point out that dryness is critical for material in a heated press. Especially bubble hash. I've read the same issues about the silicone coating on the parchment paper, but the fact remains the industry continues to use it :(

    I also talked about CO2 oil and distillate just to cover the bases a bit... in all my time on this board, your post is probably the most hostile and condescending I've read to date :( Saddens me, as I had previously found FC to be a haven for reasonable dialog and civil discourse.

    You clearly have a lot of valuable knowledge to contribute, I just wish it was presented in that light.
    I personally love to learn, but only from those that are prepared to teach.
     
    zor, Grifo, FlavorChaser and 2 others like this.
  22. subway13029

    subway13029 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,821
    Location:
    Duval
    Amen brother
     
    tennisguru1 and looney2nz like this.
  23. tepictoton

    tepictoton Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,570
    Location:
    a funny place called earth
    @SamuraiSam Thank you for sharing your knowledge? You almighty one?

    Way to twist words and shove your 'knowledge' down our throat.

    I was just trying to schare and learn along the way.

    Guess you have decided this is not the thread to do that in, religion is being thaught here....

    You do not even know me, so stop pretending that you do.

    Way to fuck this thread up uncle motherfucking Sam.

    And this is not the first time you come into a thread to 'show of' your knowledge in a very condesending way.
     
  24. Stu

    Stu Maconheiro Staff Member

    Messages:
    9,339
    Location:
    southeast of disorder
    This is out of line. I'm not going to hand out a warning point because I'd need to give Sam one as well for provoking your response with his condescending posts above. I don't follow this thread and don't pretend to understand concentrates on any kind of deep level. But I can recognize when a thread is going south and I feel the need to step in to prevent the conversation from devolving further.

    Let this post serve as a warning to those that follow: Keep it friendly or the points will start flying.

    Thank you.

    :peace:
     
  25. davesmith

    davesmith Well-Known Member Glass Blower

    Messages:
    647
    A saucy dabll put the sweats on ya for sure :lol:
     
    StormyPinkness likes this.

Support FC, visit our trusted friends and sponsors