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Study shows that 446° is the optimal vape temperature

Discussion in 'Vaporization Discussion' started by stoned-chihuahua, Mar 3, 2018.

  1. stoned-chihuahua

    stoned-chihuahua New Member

    Messages:
    7
    First, I want to apologize if this new thread should be a post under an old one. I searched the forum, and there are myriad threads about vape temperature. So I would need to post the link to the study in each one. That would be spammy.

    I think this study will blow some minds. I also think a lot of people have figured this out, but a lot haven’t. High vaporization temps are both more potent and pure than low temps.

    https://www.researchgate.net/public...nabinoid_content_of_vaporised_Cannabis_sativa

    I oscillated on vape temps. I kept reading that 338° is the best, but I could barely feel any effects at that temp. Some people even claim vapor should be invisible! I used to feel bad about vaping at high temps, like it was no better than smoking. The truth is, it’s better and safer than vaping at low temps. Mind blown!

    According to this study, at 338° F, vapor is less pure than smoking!!!

    No, you want to go to 446° and you should be blowing out clouds. Your ABV shouldn’t be green or straw colored. Honestly, the color of my ABV depends mostly on the potency and how much I pack in the chamber. Really potent herb will end up with very dark ABV, because I get more puffs out of it. It is in the oven longer, You can leave a cookie in a 200° F oven for hours and it will eventually turn black, even though the temp is so low. You could get black ABV from a vape set at 338°. As long as your ABV doesn’t have ash, you will be OK.
     
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  2. Baron23

    Baron23 Well-Known Member

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    3,769
    Outstanding and interesting study. One thing to note, if I read this correctly, although the byproducts are less at higher vape temps, they admit that they did not analyse the byproducts for their constituent parts...only qty that was not cannabinoids and hence is byproduct.

    It may well be that you get less byproducts at 446 F, but what byproducts are produced may also well be more toxic ones, like benzene, then those found in the larger qty of byproducts produced at lower temps.

    Very cool, thanks for posting.
     
  3. biohacker

    biohacker fully melted

    Messages:
    6,840
    A dated and very weak study IMO. I wish @herbivore21 or someone qualified was around to critique it. I will be back to do so when time permits, but within a few seconds of reading:

    The most popular way of administration
    in this case is smoking of cannabis cigarettes. Smoking is,
    however, not recommended because of the high number
    of undesired products produced during combustion of the
    plant material (Gieringer, 2001; Russo, 2003). These toxic
    pyrolytic compounds are produced when the temperature in
    the plant material exceeds 200°C (Chemic, 2000; Gieringer,
    2001), which happens during smoking.


    Uh, no shit....apparently happens during vaporizing too!
     
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  4. Mulchmaker

    Mulchmaker Veni Vidi Vapi

    Messages:
    86
    Location:
    Oregon
    At lower temperatures, the ratio of (undefined) byproducts to THC was greater, but the total amount (in mgs) of byproducts increased with temperature. Conclusion: the lowest temperature that gets you where you want to be is the best temperature.
     
  5. biohacker

    biohacker fully melted

    Messages:
    6,840
    Thank you for thinking critically. That was one of the first things that stood out when I glanced at the graph, but some people just cannot see the forest for the trees.
     
  6. Ratchett

    Ratchett Vape Accessories Delta3DStudios.com Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    4,062
    Just to clarify something here, ABV color is a representation of chlorophyll content, it does not represent potency of the ABV or the extraction levels. Last time I checked we're not getting medicated off vaping chlorophyll.

    The only thing ABV color can be used for is to determine how thoroughly or consistently your vaporizer has cooked your herb. 100% extraction at any desired temperature should come out identical in color. If your ABV does not come out with every flake of herb identical in color, that's ok, it just means you weren't patient enough to cook out 100% of the vapor from the herb at whatever temperature you set your vape.

    Yeah, I'm gonna disagree with that. Not all of us are seeking the same medical benefits from the plant. I personally do not enjoy the extreme sedation of cannabis which is why I run my vaporizers at temperatures below 400F so I can enjoy a creative cerebral high without all that unnecessary (for me) sedation.
     
  7. chris 71

    chris 71 Well-Known Member

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    436
    i havnt had a chance to read all of the linked info and try to digest it yet , but what i find very interesting is the CBN in smoked cannabis . i recently became interested in trying to find a way to increase CBN .

    CBN gets a bad rap , as a degradation canabiniod but , if you read the link below it appears to be just as effective as THC for pain relief sleep and more , without the psychoactive effect of THC . personally i enjoy the psychoactive effects just not the anxious effect that it can sometimes bring . and i dont find CBD as effective as i need for this .

    according to this , https://www.steephill.com/blogs/34/Cannabinol-(CBD):-A-Sleeping-Synergy

    CBN has similar effects of 5 to 10 mg of diazepam . this is of great interest to me and possibly many others .
    nothing works quite like benzos for immediate relief of anxiety in my experience . but they are extremely addictive and doctors are more and more reluctant to prescribe them .

    the difference in the CBN results in the smoked vs vaped are striking . and these results are from cannabis that doesnt appear to contain CBN from old , aged or overly ripened samples .

    it leads me to believe the CBN in this study must have been a direct result of the heat from smoking causing the high CBN values . i can only imagine that if the test was performed with cannabis that was purposely over ripened or aged it would increase the CBN content and levels would be even higher .

    for me , i think the reward ratios of smoking for the possible medical benefits gained from the CBN out weigh the risk . also sleep .

    i find this for me personally very interesting and useful info ....
     
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  8. Morty

    Morty Well-Zoned Member

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    852
     
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  9. analytika

    analytika Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    337
    Location:
    San Francisco, California
    The study lumps healthy terpenes and carcinogenic tar from combustion into the same category
     
  10. invertedisdead

    invertedisdead FC-OG

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    Location:
    Colliefornia
    Where in the study does it say that? This is the only statement I could find that even comes close to correlating your quote above.

    "the Volcano sample produced at 230°C is the “cleanest” compared to the Volcano sample produced at 170°C, which is the most impure if one considers only the THC content."

    Cannabis smoke condensate III: The cannabinoid content of vaporised Cannabis sativa (PDF Download Available). Available from: https://www.researchgate.net/public...nabinoid_content_of_vaporised_Cannabis_sativa [accessed Mar 05 2018].


     
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  11. CarolKing

    CarolKing Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur

    I vaporize well below that heat level. I usually vape below 400 degrees. I agree that the higher heat would make me too sleepy. I like flavor when I vaporize my flowers. That heat level would destroy the vapor flavor that I would experience with most of my vaporizers.

    If 446 degrees works for you, that’s great go with it. Folks that use the Flowerpot use high heat like the 446 degrees or higher. I guess it would depend on the vaporizer you were using.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2018
    steama, Bizkat, psychonaut and 4 others like this.
  12. Alexis

    Alexis Peace keeper, fun maker and 3/4 time vaporist.

    Messages:
    2,139
    Location:
    Bedford, United Kingdom
    Indeed just taken plain out of context here I think.

    So what we could possibly argue is that you might as well find that line, somewhere comfortably above 170°C, where you are taking in a high enough ratio of cannabinoids to limit, and justify the level of impurities inhaled per breath/hit/session/... dose, essentially right?

    As a pose to longer low temp sessions, where you are accumulating more impurities overall?

    However, I dont know if the study considered the possibility that there may be a similar amount of impurities inhaled overall however the load is vaped. Like if you start at low temp and the cannabinoid/THC to impurty ratio starts off very low, but levels out throughout the load.

    Bottom line, if you are going to vape, think about what you want from it and make it worth your while (or something like that- I thought I had a useful point on this but realise now I should give this all a bit more thought.) :hmm:
     
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  13. analytika

    analytika Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    337
    Location:
    San Francisco, California
    The study's graph gives that impression. Unfortunately.
     
  14. CarolKing

    CarolKing Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur

    I would go through a lot of bud at that heat, is something that I was thinking about as well. The cannabis bill would go up. I already spend too much.:leaf:
     
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  15. C No Ego

    C No Ego Well-Known Member

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    1,385
    if you think about the act of smoking as the process of heat releasing bio-actives from the herb ( heated cherry) the herb sitting right next to the cherry gets vaped and released and then you inhale that slip stream.... naturally because of a stable cinder to exchange/radiate heat there is a very precise point of release next to the cinder.... a few millimeters away ??? anyway, even with smoking there is an exact science to define the process... vapes simply provide a different form of heat sink from which to release the herb actives when we pull air through the heat sink

    edit- it seems that with certain heart points to release certain actives there would be a point too where to much heat would destroy actives.... I.E- smoking... moral is Don't smoke it :)
     
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  16. Alexis

    Alexis Peace keeper, fun maker and 3/4 time vaporist.

    Messages:
    2,139
    Location:
    Bedford, United Kingdom
    It works both ways. On a top vape like the Flowerpot, vaping at low temps it is so easy to tear through copious herb in no time. There is a line to draw. While high temps drain the herb much quicker, they also give an effect to match without leaving too many actives behind.
     
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  17. biohacker

    biohacker fully melted

    Messages:
    6,840
    SCIENCE RULEZ!!! :science:

    I've FUCKED VAPING! Combustion is healthier than the temps I enjoy vaping at! :rofl:

    :spliff:
     
  18. MrMonss

    MrMonss Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    269
    Although English is not my native language I do not reach the same conclusion, are we agree that on the graph the "By-products" is the last column on the right ?

    If this is the case there is at least three times more in the colone "cigarette"
     
    invertedisdead likes this.
  19. invertedisdead

    invertedisdead FC-OG

    Messages:
    3,561
    Location:
    Colliefornia
    I actually theorize the brief moments of vaporization that occurs during a combustion hit is what is responsible for the high. Otherwise it's destroyed.

    "It has been estimated that 23-30% of the THC in combusted cannabis is destroyed by pyrolysis, while as much as 40-50% can be lost in sidestream smoke (Perez-Reyes 1990)."
     
  20. sativasam

    sativasam NO SMOKING

    Messages:
    468
    Location:
    UK
    Time to get back on the Marlboro's :lol:
     
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  21. sokesleezy

    sokesleezy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    145
    I wish the focus of this study wasn't so simplified. There was much more that could of been revealed.
     
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  22. Used2use

    Used2use Sometimes to stupid to become a fool

    Messages:
    656
    If there is a perfect temperature for vaping - why isn't there a perfect temp for a steak or scrambled eggs... ? ;) :lol:
     
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  23. Dynavaper

    Dynavaper Karma Farmer

    Messages:
    982
    Location:
    Europe
    I vape my scrambled eggs at 195C. Perfect to get all the goodies out of the stuff. But be careful with the chives. That shit hits hard!
     
  24. Used2use

    Used2use Sometimes to stupid to become a fool

    Messages:
    656
    Thanks, i'll try that - a bag full of convection scrambled eggs through the volcano at 195C :brow: i hate the taste of conduction eggs :lol:(except vapman). Low temp vaping might create salmonellae problems in that case...
     
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  25. C No Ego

    C No Ego Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,385
    Ok, so the last few times I've been through FC Eggs are mentioned on the thread as I eat Eggs! :ninja:

    co-inkee Dink ?
     

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