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Sous Vide ABV?

Discussion in 'Cooking with Cannabis' started by virtualpurple, Jul 29, 2014.

  1. virtualpurple

    virtualpurple Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    389
    Hi folks...another odd question from me.

    How much does cooking ABV into oils rely on stirring or agitation?

    I have close to an ounce of ABV that I have been searching for a use for. I would like to combine some with coconut oil as people tend to get good results from that.

    I do not have one of those magic-butter makers...but I do have a Sous Vide machine. For anyone who doesn't know, a sous vide machine allows you to control a water bath temperature to the degree You also control anything you put into that water as well. If I were to say...put a jarfull of ABV and coconut oil into the hot water bath would the oil and material play nice with one other or would I have to find a way to agitate the mix (similar to stirring pot in a crockpot.

    If agitation isn't required so much then I'll be golden,. If it is recquired I'll have to figure out something.
     
  2. CarolKing

    CarolKing Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur

    Virtual, Check out cooking with cannabis thread under FC Community. Find where it talks about coconut oil. I decided to buy the MagicButter Maker, it suppose to come today. I'm excited!
     
  3. virtualpurple

    virtualpurple Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    389
    Thank you Carol, please let me know how you enjoy the MagicButter. It would have easily been on my list but I participated in the MassDrop for the herbalizer, so I'm a little tapped.

    I have checked out some of the coconut oil threads in the past, my main question is whether or not the oil and ABV will have to be constantly stirred. If they do, then I need to go back to the drawing board. But if constant agitation isn't required then I could either bag or jar the two together and after giving a good stir, just place into a bucket of water with my Sous Vide cooker and let it go for as many hours as people recommend these days. Some people seem to swear by going loooong hours, which the SV cooker is perfect for.
     
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  4. TeeJay1952

    TeeJay1952 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    460
    If you have ever stood at a stove and stirred for (and added more water) 18 hours. (since the 70's) a Magic Butter 2 will seem like a godsend. 2 hours unsupervised with an auto clean up.
    She blinded me, with science!
     
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  5. fft

    fft Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    151
    I am pretty active on the cooking side - medicated cooking or not -- and I use my sous vide all the time for this and think its the best method I've used so far. I use both coconut oil and clarified butter.

    Generally I do a decarb in the oven first. Sometimes I grind it in a coffee/spice grinder after that once it cools but I dont think its completely necessary. Then I stick it in a bag with usually solid butter/oil from the fridge, perhaps adding lecithin if I remember. Then I put in a 180-190-ish bath for 2-3 hours. I might moved it around in the sous vide to agitate 2-3 times - agitation seems pretty good. I used to keep it in for longer but I am afraid of decomposing the THC if its in too long. Then I strain it though a 100 um superbag into a silicone bowl and let it set up in the freezer. The next day I pop out the cannabutter "puck", and put that into a vacuum sealed bag, marking the weight and date on the bag.

    The result is a pretty strong. I use it to make chocolate bars with the coco oil. With clarified butter I make caramels out of the cannabutter and can get around 50 servings/caramels out of 8 oz of butter.
     
  6. Ratchett

    Ratchett 3D Printed Accessory Designer Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    3,090
    Just following up on this topic (always remember to use the search function before starting a new thread!)

    My wife is probably getting a Sous-vide for christmas and I am curious how well this works. I am curious to try making cannabutter with a crock pot, but my wife would KILL me for stinking up the house. The sous-vide option should help cut down on the smell......

    I've got too many ounces of ABV I need to do something with!
     
    Been Vapin likes this.
  7. fft

    fft Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    151
    Recognizing that I was the last post before you and you might want to get an opinion from someone different, let me wholeheartedly endorse using the sous vide. Couple comments to add to my post above:

    1) You might want to use multiple bags for 2 oz just to spread things out. I try to use less butter for a more concentrated product, which you can get away with in a SV bag that's been vacuum sealed. I might use 6-8 oz butter max for an oz of ABV.

    2) I notice with all SV that I get a slight amount of smell leakage in the water if I am cooking something for multiple hours. It wont smell up the house but if you are looking for extreme stealth take that into consideration. Of course when you open the bag at the end to filter it will smell more.

    3) I think its safe to extend the time beyond the 2-3 hours I mentioned above. The advantage is you get a better extraction and little additional decarb at 190 for 6-8 hours. I saw some data a while back that suggested that something like 1/3 of the THC in an ABV sample was still in THC-A form, suggesting that it doesnt all decarb in the vaporizer like everyone thinks it does (probably due to tight packing in the vape that restricts airflow or a coarse grind). So if I wasnt going to do a separate decarb with the ABV, which I assume you wont because of the smell, I would grind my ABV first then leave it the SV in a little longer.
     
  8. Ratchett

    Ratchett 3D Printed Accessory Designer Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    3,090
    Thank you for that feedback! That's VERY helpful! My wife isn't big on vaping or combusting, but she does enjoy a low-dose brownie several times a year.

    I'm not worried about extreme stealth, but the smell is good to know. I mainly don't want the whole house to reek of some nasty cannabutter brewing in the crock pot - and running the pot in my uninsulated shed would be pointless at this time of the year.

    Anyone else have some tips or tricks?
     
    Been Vapin likes this.
  9. virtualpurple

    virtualpurple Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    389
    @Ratchett I have only done the one round so far using SV but the product was quite potent for my girlfriend and treated me very nicely as well.

    I didn't have a vacuum sealer so I mixed my abv/lecithin/coconut oil into a mason jar and cooked inside of that.

    I have since found some Ziplock sous vide bags and would also give that a shot.

    What sous vide are you getting? I think the Anova is a very easy choice.
     
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  10. Ratchett

    Ratchett 3D Printed Accessory Designer Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    3,090
    Good to know. We've had a Vacuum sealer for years (actually wore out the motor in the first one from excessive use!) - we use it to speed up marinating things like steak before we cook it on the grill.

    I think she's going to get a starter unit by SousVide - an 11liter stainless steel unit - not perfect - but a good starting point
     
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  11. virtualpurple

    virtualpurple Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    389
    @Ratchett Really consider looking into the Anova if she hasn't already made a decision. You can hook it up to pretty large vessels of water, some models connect with your phone via bluetooth. And I like that it isn't a stand-alone unit, which means you can fit the device into a steel pot, a bucket, or even a cooler.

    It just seems like a steal for the price. I like that I can put it away and forget about it whenever I like and it doesn't eat up any counter space when not in use.

    http://anovaculinary.com/pages/products

    I've never used one of the stainless steel units, I'm sure they work great.
     
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  12. fft

    fft Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    151
    I have the SousVide Supreme, if thats the unit you're talking about. I've had it for several years, before the Anova and the other cheaper, more portable units came out. I really like it - its durable, comes with its own vessel/lid and easy to leave it alone for hours without watching it.

    This may be an upgrade present for next year but if you can swing it I highly recommend going with a chamber vacuum sealer when the motor on your next unit goes out. These get really expensive really fast, but I have the lowest-end Vacmaster vp112 and I love it...maybe even more than the SV itself. Chamber vacs seal liquids, which is really useful for SV/storing everyday stuff, and they also pull a tighter vacuum. You are looking at ~$575 for a vp112 compared to say $~150 for a decent suction sealer, but the bags for chamber vacs cost half as much.
     
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  13. zor

    zor I hate the kids

    Messages:
    274
    I hacked a sousvide incubator together by adding a ~$70 thermoregulator/coupler to my slow cooker. The slow cooker plugs into the thermoregulator device which plugs into the outlet. A temperature probe from the regulator reads the slow cooker water temp and thus the temperature is regulated to whatever you set it (within the capabilities of the slow cooker, obviously). I've had immense success with preparing deliciously tender meat and custardy eggs over and over, despite there not being a water pump or a stirrer to keep circulating the water bath. The ziplock souvide bags are excellent if you handle them properly (i.e. you can screw up the suction if you have clumsy meaty paws like me)

    Here's a link to the thermoregulator I use: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00368D6JA
     
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  14. Ratchett

    Ratchett 3D Printed Accessory Designer Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    3,090
    Thanks for all the input! One question I realize I forgot to ask - what temperature should I set?
     
    Been Vapin likes this.
  15. virtualpurple

    virtualpurple Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    389
    There's a company called dork food that has a similar device that I paid 100 bucks for last year before I bought my Anova. It worked pretty well. I had read about people creating their own sous vide units but for whatever reason it seemed very intimidating for me.

    I would also venture to say that most everyone would be satisfied if they used a method similar to yours. I imagine that would even work with a large electric roaster, correct?

    @Ratchett check out my other thread:

    http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/first-cannacoconut-oil.15822/

    Using my SV cooker I kept my oil at 200 degrees for about 24 hours if I remember right. It was my first time so I read read up on a few peoples methods and tried to pick a temp that seemed to yield positive experiences. I chose 24 hours because I figured the extra time wouldn't hurt.

    I thought the resulting oil turned out pretty well.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2014
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  16. fft

    fft Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    151
    I'd go 190. Could probably go even higher but some SVs start to struggle above that.
     
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  17. Been Vapin

    Been Vapin Fringe Class

    Messages:
    833
    Location:
    USA
    ANOVA Sous Vide is on sale for $99.99

    Anova's running a $100 off promo on Amazon for their original model sous vide device.

    http://www.amazon.com/Anova-Sous-...U48SM18DDH

    Originally $199, $99 after promo code ANOVAONE, good until 6/12/15. ShipsPrime, even free One-Day shipping with Prime


    Really looking forward to ABV sous vide

    Decarbing using a SV

    Click to play YouTube Video
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2015
  18. virtualpurple

    virtualpurple Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    389
    I am a big fan of the Anova. If anyone has an interest in dabbling in Sous Vide cooking I really think you can't go wrong here, especially at this price.
     
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  19. Ratchett

    Ratchett 3D Printed Accessory Designer Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    3,090
    Woot! That's a great price @Been Vapin!

    Surprised my wife last night with some Veal Marsala after work - SUPER easy to make with the sous vide (even for a person who sucks at cooking like me!)

    Need to make a new batch of SousVide butter sometime soon, I've got WAY too much ABV laying around lol
     
    Been Vapin likes this.
  20. MinnBobber

    MinnBobber Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,179
    ......................................................................

    I find this fascinating. Not to derail this thread but ---IF vaped mj still has 1/3 of the THC in THC-A form, wouldn't it be advantageous to decarb all your buds before you vape them ??? Anyone with more info on vaped buds THC vs THC-A , please post!

    I wish the video BeenVapin posted would have had 3 more pouches: one for plain ABV to set aside for testing, one for heated for an hour ABV, and one for 1 hour 40 minutes heated ABV! This would provide some factual results on vaped herb and THC-A.

    Back to topic-------- to make ABV oil with Sous Vide, do you need a vacuum sealer like in the video???
    Or to sous vide a steak to 130F and then sear on the grill?
    That Amazon deal is very tempting, more so if I don't need to also buy a vacuum sealer machine!!

    Thanks for all the great info in this thread!
     
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  21. Been Vapin

    Been Vapin Fringe Class

    Messages:
    833
    Location:
    USA
    What's everyone use for vessels? Trying to decide on a 12 quart or 18 quart container. Stock pot or BPA plastic container?
    @arf777
    @fft does SV a lot in the Virtual Banquet thread.
    A vaccum sealer is not mandatory, but is recommended. I think lol

    Here is the article which goes with the video.

    http://www.marijuanagrowershq.com/decarboxylation-marijuana-alchemy/
     
    fft likes this.
  22. fft

    fft Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    151
    I usually use my Sous vide supreme which has its own container, but I also have an Anova. I'd say you want to use the bigger vessel which will hold the temp better. Good luck...

    Also vaccum sealers help a lot.
     
    arf777 likes this.
  23. arf777

    arf777 No longer dogless

    Messages:
    1,065
    Location:
    In the Shadow of the Beast
    I strongly recommend a vacuum-sealer. Might as well, that way you can do the cooking too. i sometimes use a good sous-vide bag, but I also have a couple of rigid supposedly BPA-free containers designed for sous-vide immersion and vacuum curing.

    I like the Sous Vide brand water oven, but I have never heard anything negative about the Anova.

    In terms of decarbing herb for vaping I for one do not see it accomplishing much. Unless you vape at really low temps. Personally I use mix my ABV with fresh when making shatter. But I do all my butter extraction sous vide, and have been meaning to try some ABV that way.
     
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  24. fft

    fft Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    151
    I just went back and looked at the video. That's very interesting / helpful. I've never seen this done elsewhere. Here's a recap:

    1) He's doing an experiment to ascertain whether you can decarb in a sous vide
    2) His method is to grind the herb and then put it *dry* into a vacuum bag, then seal
    3) Sets Sous Vide to 200F
    4) Tests three samples: #2: 1hr @ 200F; #3: 1.5hr @ 200F; #1 control that is sealed but not put in SV bath
    5) Sends the three samples, still sealed, to a lab for testing

    Here's a summary of the results:
    [​IMG]

    He concludes that he was able to decarb completely with 1.5hrs @ 200F.

    My thoughts are that this looks promising, but I don't get why the total THC % in the sample dropped. Adjusting the %s for moisture still results in a loss of THC compared with the original sample. Regardless, this seems to disprove the belief that decarboxylation requires a dry environment - i.e. that the herb needs to dry out in the oven to lose moisture before decarb can occur. In this experiment there is nowhere for the moisture to go because the bag is sealed but decarb happens anyway. Ideally, I would add coconut oil to the sample so I can decarb and extract all in one go....which would really make SV extraction the superior method.

    Edit: Just found the blog post for this on Marijuana Growers HQ. He points out that you should have some total THC mass loss when decarbing (about 12% loss)...I'm guessing this is just the lower MW of decarbed THC due to the loss of the carboxyl group. This doesnt account for all the THC loss though, which he discusses in his post.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2015
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  25. MinnBobber

    MinnBobber Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,179
    ....................................
    Yes, something is odd as he says 1.5 hours gave 100% dearb (vs 86% decarb at one hour) YET the 1.5 hour listed THC % is less.......

    fft posted:
    I saw some data a while back that suggested that something like 1/3 of the THC in an ABV sample was still in THC-A form

    I wish they'd do this experiment with ABV--list what vape and what final temp was. Then starting THC/ TCH-A levels and again after 1 hour and 1.5 hours.
    I REALLY want to see what ABV figures are !!!!!!!!!
     
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