Some thoughts about animal products...

I'm on a budget, and bananas and dates are by far the most inexpensive fruits I am able to get. I order dates from meccadatefarm.com. There are other high calorie fruits but bananas and dates are cheaper than most like mangoes, for example which cost me $2 each. I'd rather get like 8 bananas for $2.

Average day: 1-2 litres of distilled water, 25 medjool dates, 14 bananas, 14 bananas, salad--1.5 heads of lettuce, 3 tomatoes (I'd eat more if they cost less), 1 avocado (I only eat about 1-2 avocados a week typically). I like to exercise daily either running, biking, hiking, bodyweight exercises. I like to get sun whenever it's sunny out. I aim for 10-12 hours of sleep per night. Usually I end up getting 9-10 hours, so I'm still working on the sleep.

Check out this link. It helped motivate me many times. These are pictures of people who have been on this diet for years.
http://www.30bananasaday.com/forum/topics/811-gladiators

that link you gave for the banana's, do you only eat youir banana's if they look like that or also the other fruits listed there?
the kiwi's listed as ripe on there are in a stage where I personally would throw them in the garbage or maybe try to process it into something(like ice) (I have heard about eating banana's if they get brown, so not really surprised about that)

I try to eat all my fruit when it is properly ripe. I like the kiwi when it's turned soft. Generally, it's good to rely on your senses when deciding if fruit is ripe (smell, taste, feel, sight). The more fruit I eat and examine, the easier it becomes for me to pick out good fruit from the store and determine when it is at it's prime to eat. Practice makes perfect. I've eaten plenty of unripe fruit. Each time I do, I think to myself "that didn't taste as sweet as it should have. Something is off".

One of the problems for me, since I cannot grow my own fruit, is that grocery stores are notorious for picking their fruits early so they can ship them while they are still hard (preventing damage) and unripe. This means that the fruit is not able to receive all the nutrients that it would otherwise gotten from the tree. It is rather unfortunate that this is done. There are several fruits, though, that are able to ripen alright even when picked early, including bananas.

My main concern is the teeth and people who are frutarians for a long time seem a bit too skinny most of the times. Hair and skin is always glowing though.

Also, the amount of sugar seems to develop a sugar high, as most videos i have seen of frutarians are a bit too excited, in a way it does not sound normal.

Have you found any studies on the effect of that amount of fructose coursing in your veins? I find it odd there no side effect on your insulin/glucagon levels.. especially since most fruits don't have glucose which is the sugar your body uses.

I think that blood sugar/diabetes issues arrise when people are consuming refined sugar in cakes, cookies, candy, etc. The sugar in fruit is the ideal source of energy for the body and that is why it is okay to consume large amounts. I know that 80-10-10 goes into greater detail about this. I think that when I first switched to this diet I noticed sugar highs, but I am certainly even keeled at this point. Having lots of energy is one of those 'good problems', especially because it makes an active lifestyle with lots of exercise very easy.

Also, like I said my teeth have been absolutely fine, and I think most people on the diet have great teeth. There are threads about teeth on 30B.A.D..com.

Look at this '80-10-10 Gladiators' link. Some of these individuals look like bodybuilders to me. Putting on muscle is very doable on this diet. Even the 60 year old Doug Graham is jacked IMO. http://www.30bananasaday.com/forum/topics/811-gladiators

If I were you I would get my hands on a copy of 80-10-10. It's $30 but it's very much worth it IMO. Also, you could always look for a used copy, or perhaps your library has a copy. It addresses all of concerns and questions you are likely to have. It also has a great section on menus for different seasons of the year.

Here's a teeth link. http://thebananagirl.com/i-lost-all-my-teeth-as-a-fruitarian.php

Refined sugar is the worst, i agree. But sugar is sugar, and the sugar high is about the sugar.. not that its refined.

I meant an actual scientific source.. "Having excess amounts of fat and protein in the bloodstream from ANY source is acid-forming and teeth compromising. Keep levels below 10% of daily calories and LESS if suffering from teeth problems." -> this kind of sentence to me just flags a "delusional" alert. Vitamins K1 and K2, A, D, and E are all fat-soluble. These vitamins are essential to your teeth. Fat exists most in animal products.

And don't start talking about algae because MANY civilizations thrived away from the ocean.

Ancient tribes have the better teeth than most of us in the modern society and they ate mostly animal products.

I think this kind of diet is doable if you do it for a while, to cleanse and to improve your generall health. But it seems that the long term effects are not very well documented or evaluated..

I REALLY like the idea of being a fruitarian, but after being vegetarian for 4 years and being less healthy than i was, i take all these new diets with a grain of salt.

Right now, i think that Paleo Diet is, the most complete and beneficial for most people, way of eating.

It is not about eating half a cow at breakfast, it is about eating a fair amount of protein, carbs and fats, cutting down on processed and unprocessed grains, choosing the right kind of fats (olive oil, coconut oil, ghee, butter, lard), carbs ( vegetables and fruit) and protein (eggs, fish, wild game and animals who eat pasture).

I think it would be nice to incorporate, green smoothies and other raw veggie juices, as well as a weekend on fruit only, for example.


Apart from 30bad, and other similar websites of the same community, i don't see many clues on the potential benefits of frutarian eating. I see the same kind of delusional arguments as the vegans. I see posts, like your recomendation, with pictures that only show two rotten mouths that don't tell me anything. And those pictures have been around for years now so they are just random photos of bad teeth hygiene.
I see a lot of people giving up fruitarianism for the same reasons, usually its because they got their teeth destroyed. I am willing to bet that these people are the ones who had bad teeth to start because sugar is an oportunist.. the sugar causes the acidic juices in the mouth, which in turn atack the sensitive areas where the enamel is destroyed.

I want to see 10, 20, 30 people in their 60s who are healthy and with good teeth and have been doing this for 20 years. Not skinny fat, yellowed teeth, hippies who like to run a lot because they need to do something about the 2400kcal on sugar they eat all day.. I'm sorry for saying this so bluntly, i know i am being exagerated, but the truth is most long term frutarians i have seen are not that healthy. I emphasize long term here. Any vegan diet is a cleansing diet so it will bring short terms benefits. Too much cleansing will bring you deficits, and here we are again.

With paleo, you can see the same "comunity factor" but with a healthy amount of believers and non-believers and actual scientific studies backing up the claims..

You are right. There are not many examples of well documented people who have done this diet for long term. The person I know who has done it the longest is Doug Graham (about 30 years I believe), and he looks fantastic. I agree that one person is not enough 'evidence' to truly convince anyone that this diet does indeed work. I think that the best way to determine the viability of this diet is to be your own science experiment. That is what I'm doing. Don't get me wrong. I researched probably over 60 hours of reading books and searching the web before implementing this diet, but that information can only be taken so strongly. I'm really just following my heart and my mind at this point.

I also agree with what you say about vegetarianism. Generally, it's good because it's saving animals, but healthwise, it is not necessarily any healthier than a Standard American Diet. You can eat as many vegetarian cookies and vegan pizza as you'd like and still be a vegetarian or vegan, so unless you are only implementing such a diet for ethical reasons, there's not much sense in doing so IMO.

I really suggest you give 80-10-10 a read. Also, I'd look at durianrider's youtube videos. He has a recent video where he shows all his bloodwork after being on this diet for 10 years.

Peace.

I do not get this part,even if that makes you live longer in years,it seems overall you'd still you get less 'conscious' time as far as i can tell?
I typically get by on 5/6 hours and am of an age,where i can't simply turn over and get back to sleep anymore,once i'm up...i'm up.

I have made some changes in my diet and lifestyle for the better,primarily i stopped smoking(after 30 years and 2 packs a day)!
After that i gradually started some more 'moderation/constraint' for instance having a smoothie a day of fruit/veggies,which also got me out of the habit of drinking a glass or two of regular coke(with the sugar) in the evening.
I still like my coffee sweet,but i have only used unrefined canesugar for quite a few years already and although that being a bit better for you than refined definitely played a role,the taste was also a big influence there,i just like it better.

As with all diets/lifestyle advice i always do recommend some retrospection and caution and simple common sense,extremes are usually not good.

Okay, will definitly do that.

I understand that on top of being low fat, which is because of the high frutose content in this diet, it has to be raw.

Are there any known problems regarding mixing raw and cooked foods?

Here is a link of a story of a lfrv guy, Andrew, who shows up a lot in the comunity as a good example of a successfull frutarian. In the update he says he gave up on the lifestyle and now he is vegan again. He doesn't really say the reason, just that it is more pratical to not be frutarian and be vegan but it seems there are other reasons he does not want to get into.

http://www.loving-it-raw.com/raw-food-success-stories.html

One other thing that i think it is important to mention: most of the benefits people mention in the lfrv diet are similar to the ones when people transition to Paleo. I'm thinking, perhaps, the elimination of grains and processed foods, are the main issue, as well as a portions problem. (too much cereals, too little vegetables.)

If i recall correctly, that has to do with the body repairing functions.. meaning, they say that 10-12 hours is the recommended for the body to fully replenish and recover.

I wonder if this is due to being so active during the day.


As a final note, let me just throw this out there. Have you noticed that most vegetarians/vegans/macrobiotics/fruitarians have an odd neck and cheeks? The neck is a little too thin, it is almost imperceptible but it is noticeable. And the cheeks start to shrink, like an old man. This is something i have been paying attention for quite a few years, and it is becoming more apparent.. i can almost guess when someone is vegetarian.

After watching a Horizon-episode(http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01lxyzc) about intermittent fasting (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-19112549) i have also been thinking about giving that a try,probably starting with the 5:2-method.
If i can pull that off without too much trouble,maybe i'll even go for the full ADF(Alternate Day fasting).

why don't you try an 18 hour fast? After dinner just don't eat anything else and don't eat breakfast. If you only have lunch at 1pm, and you had dinner at 8pm the night before, you got your 18 hours right there and it does not mess your routine. You can also skip meals once in a while.

@deadhead, some links i found that resume some of my concerns and contain good guidelines if you want to keep following this diet in good health:

http://www.beyondveg.com/billings-t/open-lett/open-letter-f-1a.shtml

http://www.incrediblesmoothies.com/raw-food-diet/faq/are-fruitarian-diets-really-healthy/

The more i read about this, the more i convince myself you shouldn't do this for longer than a few months. I honestly think there will start to be mild issues and you might not notice them.

Either that or be prepared to supplement with fish oil, and a multi vitamin. And don't skip the dark greens in your dinner salads.

I actually did a 4 day fast several days ago--nothing but water. It went well, but I had to break the fast because my family started to get concerned. I don't see the benefit of intermittent fasting. That is basically just a form of calorie restriction which I cannot dig. The major benefits that come from fasting come once the body switches to ketosis for energy, which is around 3 days into the fast. At that point the body starts using energy for repairing the body, energy that would otherwise be used for digestion. My reason for fasting was to have accelerated detox and ultimate cleansing and rest for my body. I do see myself doing a more lengthy fast sometime down the road, but for now I will simply stick with my cleansing diet. You would not believe all of the phlegm I have discarded on this diet.

Vorrange, do you think that the 'gladiators' that I posted the link to have an odd neck or cheeks? Just curious.

I think that part of the sleeping for 10-12 hours rationale is multifold. First of all, it allows the boody ample rest/recover time to be 100% during the day without any tiredness. I wake up feeling completely refreshed and ready to start the day, not sluggish or feeling dopey by 3pm. Another reason I have heard is that humans evolved in the tropics where generally there is 12 hours of daylight and 12 hours of dark. Before the invention of electricity or lamps, I hypothesize that humans would go to bed as the sun set and rise for the day as the sun rose. That makes sense to me.

I am not familiar with the implications of mixing cooked foods with raw fruits and vegetables. I don't believe that you would experience any ill effects of including more fruits and veggies in your diet. If you are not willing to give up cooked foods but want to incorporate more raw food in your diet, what I would do is keep the two separate. Like I would have a meal of 10 bananas for breakfast, for example, and then a couple hours later, I would eat my cooked meal of whatever.

I have to admit, the diet I am on takes a lot of will power at times, and one really has to want it. Especially right now, with all the special holiday meals, it is taking some serious restraint on my part. I believe that my restraint will be worth it down the road. Giving up cooked foods is like giving up a serious addiction. My past relationship with food was not healthy IMO. Now I eat to live and not the other way around.

Not all of them of course, but Roger Haeske, DURIAN RIDER, Chris Kendall, Dr.Tim Trader have slim necks, some of them have the old man mouth i was talking about, and Sam Mielcarsky has very yellow teeth. Half of them have a marathoners body with low body fat but not much muscle as well.. most of them are posing, it is easier to look muscular that way.
Im sorry, but i'm not impressed with the physical aspect. I was much much more impressed with the Paleo guys and their before-after differences.

I think this diet is a great detoxifier and cleanser of the organism. But from my experience so far, this is a diet and not a lifestyle change, and it seems some people look way better than others.

I am sure the energy levels and general health improvement also have a lot to do with the amount of fruit you guys eat.. all those vitamins, mineral and biochemical compounds do very good for your body.

But maybe a better diet would be to incorporate animal products and vegetables some days and fruit the other days, for example.
I always say paleo is being a true vegetarian, and then adding meat. Maybe the ideal diet would be a fruitarian paleo.

don't you feel overslept after sleeping so long?
I never like sleeping longer as 8-9 hours, since if I do I wil feel groggy, sluggish and will lay in bed longer while already awake.
perfect for me is 7-8 hours, but tonight it happened to be 4,5-5 hours(in 2 times), and since I'm well rested from previous days I still feel great, not even sleepy, just a bit more hungry(if I sleep less I get hungry more often)

I think I would actually prefer undersleeping to oversleeping if I had to choose 1 for the rest of my life

"Hey everyone. I need to vent. I am quite angry and disappointed at myself and the people who promote this diet. I have studied nutrition in the past and am currently in school for holistic nutrition. I should have known better but even I was duped.

There was a time when I thought high fruit/high carb was the best diet ever. I came from S.A.D. and have many food intolerances so of course I felt better not eating wheat, dairy, and processed meat. I joined the 30BaD forum and met many raw vegans who were supposedly thriving.

I posted there for quite some time until I couldn’t stand it anymore. I knew I would get banned eventually for stating my beliefs so I deleted my account. I stayed away from 30BaD for many months. I went back because I really wanted to make 80/10/10 work. I felt great eating high fruit and had no reason to believe it was bad for me. My boyfriend warned me about the censorship, but I ignored him.
To my surprise, I barely recognized anyone on 30BaD from when I was posting the first time.

I discovered this website and low and behold, a bunch of you guys are over here! This was my first major clue that something was wrong. Reading the articles and personal stories on here put my critical thinking hat back on.

Anyway, let’s talk about health. I healed many of my health issues with 80/10/10. I believe that’s because I was (more or less) not eating wheat, dairy, corn, and soy. I was eating tons of fresh produce vs. processed junk. I was all about the carbs and I did lose some weight…. at first.

Now, if I have ANY sugar, my candida blooms like CRAZY and I gain weight. I have a photo of me where I look 5 months pregnant because I am that bloated. I am more anxious than I should be and I can’t sleep at night. I had Vulvodynia before and the pain is even worse now and I have developed bladder pain. I feel tired and have no energy to exercise. I eat, feel a little bit of energy, then my energy crashes.

Yeah so, I’m switching my diet to the complete opposite and seeing what happens. Meat and tons of veggies and green juice. I am eating coconut oil every day. While doing 80/10/10 I wasn’t hungry per se, but I always felt like I needed something else. I could never put my finger on what exactly.

I’m pretty furious that these people, who do NOT have nutrition degrees, and are making money off of uninformed people. If they truly wanted to help others, then they wouldn’t ban or censor their website. They would take the person’s problems into consideration instead of saying “You’re doing it wrong” or “Eat more to live more”. Everyone has a different nutritional profile AT BIRTH because of genetics and how their mother ate while pregnant. The truth is DR and Freelee do not have the nutritional knowledge to understand the root problems.
Besides, it is quite dangerous to try to diagnose health issues over the internet.

One last note. If you could eat 1500 calories a day and all of your nutrition was taken care of with those calories, would you eat 3,000? No, you wouldn’t. Eating takes up way too much time, energy and money to bother. Let’s all blindly eat more without considering whether those calories are USEFUL to the body. More is not necessarily better.

Sorry for the novel. Thanks everyone for letting me vent! "

^^ This is the post of someone who gave up on being a frutarian and how she came about that decision. Perhaps you can take something that might help you in your quest deadhead.

Taken from here: http://30bananasadaysucks.com/page/4/

If i could choose i would oversleep. I think sleep has many variables that might interfere, diet is just one more.

I definitely enjoy getting more sleep. I feel great.

Vorrange, I appreciate you sharing that post. I've read some posts from that web site, 30bananasadaysucks.com. I think it's laughable how the 30BAD web site has its own evil twin site per se. Right now, as far as I'm concerned, my diet is not lacking in any way and I feel fantastic, so I'm gonna stay on course. I am not set in stone with this diet for the rest of my life, but for the time being I will keep experimenting with it. Perhaps I'll post in this thread some time down the line to update everyone as to how this diet is treating me.

I feel like i'm beating the dead cow now but.. do you find laughable the amount of people who claim they censor the 30bad site? or that they give advice that are not based on scientific research? or that they have changed their view to include greens and now some fat fruits like avocados?

I find the amount of people who have the SAME odd comments about the 30bad and 811 community and ideals is a cause of concern, not laughter. And i think you shouldn't dismiss their claims just because you feel great.

When i was vegetarian, i also thought i was great but then i started eating meat again i realized i was far from great. I don't know what you need in animal products that is so important for you, but the longer you are without them, the more you realize something is missing and you are not healthy anymore.

These are people, like you, who have tried and failed; who have reported improvements at first and then wierd things started happening.

Keep doing what your doing until the problems start, when they do, think long and hard what to do.
It is at this point where most people think they are doing something wrong, and go search for answers and there is always some vague notion of detoxing or getting rid of mucus and toxins and that is why you feel like crap.

In fact, you need something else, whether it is selenium, essential fatty acids, or some aminoacid that exists in fruits only in low concentration (there are 2 at least)..

And do some blood work too, 2 months is a good enough time to see if the diet is working and it is when people start to get their first problems.

I find it laughable just how the site 30BAD a day has an evil twin. I'm not laughing at the actual site.

The thing about animal products is that there is nothing beneficial or necessary in them that you cannot find in fruits or vegetables. It's hard to believe, but I've read this from numerous sources.

Just because one is a vegetarian, does not inherently mean one is healthy. There are plenty of fat, unhealthy vegetarians out there. Plus, there are so many more components to health than diet alone IMO.

Thanks for the bloodwork advice. I was going to wait another couple of months but I think now I might set up an appointment to have one a little sooner.

This statement is just untrue man, that is what i found out after stopping being vegetarian. My health improved, i gained needed weight (muscle, not fat.), my hair was better, i stopped looking so white, my teeth got stronger.

I know it is hard to believe because the sources are credible, but there are a couple of amino acids that exist in healthy concentrations in animal products. Plus the essential fatty acids and b12 are not found in vegetables, most people start having problem with concentration for lack of these two compounds.

I really don't know HOW important are animal products and which quantity do you need to it, to not have problems related to lack of animal products. Society these days is ruled by profit and less by truth, so it is hard to filtrate the real information and not the biased or out of context facts.

I suggest you read the most common defficiencies in frutairians and complement that in the form of pills. If i ever become vegetarian again, that would be how i would do it. Heck, i am still considering complementing my current diet with Vitamin D and Cod liver oil and i don't restrict anything but grains and dairy.

EDIT: Another thing i started to observe whilst researching so much on food and dietary recommendations is that, more often than not, there are correct views on certain things that are forgotten/dismissed/ignored by each different branch.

Vegetarians/Vegans/Frutairians are very fat afraid to the point of harm because fat does not make you fat, excess fat makes you fat. And fat is essential!

Paleo eaters are IMO very anti-fruit except the ones with low sugar content because frutose is much more unstable than glucose, and with the amount of fat in this diet it could be a problem because it will oxidize frutose and that is where sugar becomes a problem. This is also the reason why fat and carbs go together but you can't go overboard. McDonalds anyone?

This is why i have been trying to see what is working in each diet and why. And what is a problem and why is it a problem. What i have found is that the main problem is processed food and the unsurmountable amount of chemicals in our everyday food. The best way to minimize this (i said minimize because i don't believe i can revert 100% unless you grow your own.) is to steer clear as much as you can from packed food, and try to cook everything you do.
Only after this step, should you attempt to change something else. Easier said than done, and all i said is an advice to myself as well.

First of all, all of the essential fatty acids can be found in fruits and vegetables, as well as B12. Just because you experienced muscle gain does not mean that a fruitarian diet is lacking in anything. It means that your vegetarian diet was lacking, or there was some other lurking variable.

Regardless, I plan on having bloodwork done, and that should alert me as to how my vitamin, mineral, nutrient, etc levels are.

And the 80/10/10 people are not 'afraid' of fat. They try to keep fat below 10% is all.

I forgot to mention earlier in the thread that I have a roommate who is essentially implementing a diet that is the opposite of mine. I believe it is basically the Atkins diet that he is doing. He avoids carbs like theyre the devil. His diet consists mostly of chicken, bacon, eggs, heavy whipping cream, coffee, tuna fish, and canned vienna sausages. IMO his diet is crazy. He is in a constant state of ketosis which is terrible for one's body, and makes one sluggish and groggy always as if they are drunk. I think that his diet is going to hurt him in the long run, but we will see. So far, the only thing I've seen happen to him is his pinky finger fell asleep and has yet to 'wake up'. Whether or not this is due to his diet is hard to say, though I would speculate that it is.

I guess what it all comes down to, concerning diets, is that we all have the freedom to experiment with different diets and lifestyles, and time will tell whose choices pay off the most, and whose choices bite them in the ass.

I'm willing to be your diet's friend has as many carbs as frutarian diet's fat.. he 's not afraid of carbs, he just keeps it bellow 10%.. do you see how this works when you spin it around?

And your imediate reaction of, "it means your vegetarian diet was lacking" is symptomatic of all i have been saying. There comes a point where you think you are doing something wrong but the problem is that you stopped doing something right.

I did blood work and it was all fine. All my levels were within healthy ranges, even B12. Trust me when i say this: science does not have all the answers. I felt fine and i just thought i was a little slim. I noticed the difference after i resumed meat eating alone. My girlfriend cut on meat but ate fish and seafood, while eating all the rest as well. Did this for 10 years, felt fine. Then she started to question that, eventually, she resumed meat eating and she reported the same. More energy, strength, vitality and drive. Restriction diets work for a period of time that is less time the more you restrict.

B12 is found in algae only and it is not a very good source because you don't assimilate it as well as animal B12. The same goes for essential fatty acids. I know there are sources of those nutrients but you are a frutarian who eats 10% of fat.. i am pretty sure you are pushing the envelope and you are not getting enough essential fatty acids.

Like i said, time will tell. I know i had to swallow my pride more often than not, i still do. Being vegetarian bit me in the ass big time.. i read what you write and i recognize myself many times when i was vegetarian. Always thinking that it didn't work for the other guy because he wasn't commited or knowledgeable enough.

Well, let me tell you that, i don't make an effort to eat well right now. I don't care about portions, or overall callories. I eat until i am full, i don't eat when i don't feel like it. I go to mcdonalds and i skip meals sometimes. I do everything good and bad.. i just stopped doing the bad things everyday. And i am healthy.

It was so hard to be this healthy being vegetarian, i can only imagine being frutarian.. and in the end, i realize it was just stupid and i should have listened to all the people who said i looked thin or whitish or that i should consider eating meat because of my brain (this was actually told by a head neurologist and i thought: "you don't know shit, you are just parroting conventional wisdom")..

This is why i keep telling you to watch out and don't stop questioning your health and don't believe every lame ass excuse you read, especially if it involves the words detoxing and such.

I was you ten years ago. I ran into someone like i am now when i was starting my vegetarian journey, and i thought i was so much better because i made this choice.
Sometimes, the mainstream is the mainstream for a reason, and i learned that i should be much much more carefull when defying those ideas, especially when it comes to health.