Sleep apnea from CBD isolate?

[Dynavaper]

Dear all,

I am a bit worried...
I was able to buy some 99,7% CBD isolate directly via wholesale from a reputable dutch industrial producer. Quality should be very good. I vape it and it works wonders compared to the oil that I consumed orally before. Pain is reduced by up to 90% within 5-10 minutes after consumption and it eases my nervosity very good. But - Since I started using it, my partner observed that I show heavy symptoms of sleep apnea at night. So alarming that she even thought about calling an ambulance this very night. Something like this never happend to me before and it seems to happen every night since several weeks now.

I wonder: Have you experienced anything like this yourselves? Would it be the better solution to vape the CBD during daytime and not in the evening? Do you even think that there could be a connection?

My theory is that the CBD might possibly "paralyze" my respiratory passages somehow. It might, of course, be possible that there are other factors responsible for the phenomenon and that the CBD has nothing to do with it. But it started on the exact same day that I consumed the isolate for the first time with my vape.

Concerning the dosage: I consumed around 100-150mg/day of CBD via the oil and my dosage for the isolate is between 50mg and 100mg per day. It's not very easy for me to weigh it, so dosing the isolate is a bit by rule of thumb. Should I use lower dosages with the isolate?

Thank you all in advance for sharing your experiences!

 

[Sick Vape]

Interesting.
You do not experience sleep apnea with the CBD oil?
Do you still get pain relief when using a smaller dose of the isolate?

If you say 2 times yes I would try lower doses of the isolate.


Edit: If you were eating the CBD oil, you might try to eat the CBD isolate too!

 

[chris 71]

I have had something similar from vaping in general not as bad as what it sounds like your going through but i chaulked it up to dryness from vaping and winter being dry . hasnt happened to me for a while now and i dont have sleep apnea so to me it was a dry sticky throat

 

[Dynavaper]

You do not experience sleep apnea with the CBD oil?

This is something I cannot tell. No, according to my partner. But I did never consume the oil as late as the isolate, because I really did not like its taste before going to sleep.

Do you still get pain relief when using a smaller dose of the isolate?

I will have to find out during the next days. It's trial and error, so it might take some time...

Edit: If you were eating the CBD oil, you might try to eat the CBD isolate too!

It would be a pity and awful waste to do so, I fear... The bioavailability of the CBD is much higher when vaped, than with oral (even sublingual) consumption. And that isolate stuff is (even with wholesale prices) quite expensive. But I get your point.

I have had something similar from vaping in general not as bad as what it sounds like your going through but i chaulked it up to dryness from vaping and winter being dry . hasnt happened to me for a while now and i dont have sleep apnea so to me it was a dry sticky throat

Those are probably other issues than mine, I guess. I vape (and smoked) for years right before sleeping without this happening. Fortunately, a dry and sticky throat is not one of my 99 problems...

 

[looney2nz]

sleep disorders are not something to play around with

I would recommend that you get a full sleep study done, in a certified sleep diagnostic lab.
If you have a sleep clinic attached to a University, they could be very interested in studying your sleep pattern with and without CBD.

I personally haven't experienced any changes in apnea or hypopnea events from cannabis, be it CBD isolate or live resin sauce.

Isolate is more potent than any other form, so you should be able to vape less, I suggest getting a good electronic scale to portion out your doses. Most folks seem to see a response around a 50mg dose, so perhaps 100mg is too high for you. Try a 20 mg dose, how's that?

I've never had a good response to eating isolate

btw, obstructive sleep apnea (OSA) typically is related to the specific architecture of your airway, and the strength of the muscles in your neck/throat, specifically those that control the position of the tongue in the mouth while breathing/sleeping... in OSA it tends to slack and interfere with the airflow, evidenced by loud snoring and gasping for air. OSA destroys your sleep, packs on weight, raises your blood pressure and leaves you ripe for a heart attack or a stroke. THAT kind of serious.

Seriously, get a full study done at a certified sleep clinic, you may have an underlying condition that needs to be addressed, CBD notwithstanding. Your girlfriend may have saved your life.

keep us posted, stay well.

 

[Sick Vape]

sleep disorders are not something to play around with

I would recommend that you get a full sleep study done, in a certified sleep diagnostic lab.
If you have a sleep clinic attached to a University, they could be very interested in studying your sleep pattern with and without CBD.

I personally haven't experienced any changes in apnea or hypopnea events from cannabis, be it CBD isolate or live resin sauce.

Isolate is more potent than any other form, so you should be able to vape less, I suggest getting a good electronic scale to portion out your doses. Most folks seem to see a response around a 50mg dose, so perhaps 100mg is too high for you. Try a 20 mg dose, how's that?

I've never had a good response to eating isolate

btw, obstructive sleep apnea (OSA) typically is related to the specific architecture of your airway, and the strength of the muscles in your neck/throat, specifically those that control the position of the tongue in the mouth while breathing/sleeping... in OSA it tends to slack and interfere with the airflow, evidenced by loud snoring and gasping for air. OSA destroys your sleep, packs on weight, raises your blood pressure and leaves you ripe for a heart attack or a stroke. THAT kind of serious.

Seriously, get a full study done at a certified sleep clinic, you may have an underlying condition that needs to be addressed, CBD notwithstanding. Your girlfriend may have saved your life.

keep us posted, stay well.

I do not know more about sleep apnea, than your respiration is bad while sleeping and that it is bad for you. So take @looney2nz advice.

It would be a pity and awful waste to do so, I fear... The bioavailability of the CBD is much higher when vaped, than with oral (even sublingual) consumption. And that isolate stuff is (even with wholesale prices) quite expensive. But I get your point.

Do you have any data regarding bioavailability of CBD?
It has escaped me and would interest me a lot.
@looney2nz had no success with isolate cbd. I tried just once did not feel a lot either (but I cannot say anything yet, really).
For oral consumption I did try an oily preparation of the isolate from the store (10% or so). Now they even offer water soluble CBD.
It is quite expensive too (around 80-100$/g for 99.6% or higher). May I ask you how much you payed wholesale? Or is it not public information?

 

[sickmanfraud]

@Dynavaper , Let me ask you the first few questions you are likely to be asked at the sleep center.

1. How many hours do you "sleep" each night?
2. Do you nap during the day?
3. Are you tired during the day?

I have sleep apnea and I had it long time before I was treated with cannabis. Before I got tested and a CPAP machine I fell asleep while waiting at traffic signals several times. I would love to know if cannabis (or any of its cannabinoids) can help or make it worse.

FYI, a sleep study does not hurt in any way. There are many sleep centers that can send you home with a CPAP unit that can diagnose your problem remotely.

 

[looney2nz]

@Dynavaper , Let me ask you the first few questions you are likely to be asked at the sleep center.

1. How many hours do you "sleep" each night?
2. Do you nap during the day?
3. Are you tired during the day?

I have sleep apnea and I had it long time before I was treated with cannabis. Before I got tested and a CPAP machine I fell asleep while waiting at traffic signals several times. I would love to know if cannabis (or any of its cannabinoids) can help or make it worse.

FYI, a sleep study does not hurt in any way. There are many sleep centers that can send you home with a CPAP unit that can diagnose your problem remotely.

If they have a partner or roommate, ask if they show signs of 'conking out' soon after sitting on the couch of chair. Daytime sleepiness from OSA can make you drive like you're drunk

You CAN get a sleep study that they send you home, but most GOOD sleep studies are done overnight in a sleep lab where they monitor more than one thing at a time (you are wired up for telemetry for respiration, heart-rate, limb movement, monitored with infrared cameras). It's pretty amazing when you see all the data.

The gold standard in the U.S. is the Stanford University Sleep Center in the Bay Area of California. https://stanfordhealthcare.org/medical-clinic/sleep-medicine-center.html
Dr. Dement's book on sleep is still the reference as far as I know.

If you do have OSA, there are new options out there beyond the CPAP (although an auto-pap is supposed to be quite good these days)... there are dental appliances to shift your jaw position to keep the tongue forward, there's a new unit out there that is supposed to use some form of electrical stimulation.

CPAPs, it's all about what kind of mask you settle on... try a bunch, if they argue with you, fight 'em. I used the old Breeze nasal pillows setup before I had the (radical, intense) reconstructive surgery for OSA.

One way or another, get checked out. It literally is a matter of life and death.

 

[arb]

How is your weight and overall health?
Smoking straight causes apnea so cut it out..........lolz.

 

[looney2nz]

How is your weight and overall health?
Smoking straight causes apnea so cut it out..........lolz.

weight, definitely a factor, but I've met skinny ass folks with OSA. (mine wasn't weight so much)

smoking tobacco does NOT help.

@Dynavaper I hope you can find a good sleep clinic wherever you are in Europe!

Best of luck!

 

[MinnBobber]

Concerning the dosage: I consumed around 100-150mg/day of CBD via the oil and my dosage for the isolate is between 50mg and 100mg per day. It's not very easy for me to weigh it, so dosing the isolate is a bit by rule of thumb. Should I use lower dosages with the isolate?

...................................................................................................
Besides considering a sleep study, you may want to try adjusting your dosage as yours could be as much as 250 mg per day.
Dosing is different for each individual but that is a very large dose IMO/IME.
How did you arrive at those amounts?
Dose titration is starting low and slowing increasing to find the lowest dose that works/has the needed effects. You look for that point where an increase in dosage does not give an increase in wanted effects.

You were not sure of amounts so a .o1 gram or .001 gram scale would be a good investment ( $20-$30).

Many people I know get relief from 20 - 40 mg CBD.

 

[Sick Vape]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30374683
study on safety and bioavailability for oral CBD with/out a fat meal. May be interesting for some to reduce dosage.
I would love to see data on inhaled CBD.

The plasma concentration can be increased up to 5 times by eating a fat meal before.
The study is also made with very high dosage of CBD.

I am not sure prolonged use of highly dosed pure cannabinoids is really good for healthy subjects. Time will tell.
For ill people i estimate cannabis products much much safer than most prescription drugs.

 

[sickmanfraud]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30374683
study on safety and bioavailability for oral CBD with/out a fat meal. May be interesting for some to reduce dosage.
I would love to see data on inhaled CBD.

The plasma concentration can be increased up to 5 times by eating a fat meal before.
The study is also made with very high dosage of CBD.

I am not sure prolonged use of highly dosed pure cannabinoids is really good for healthy subjects. Time will tell.
For ill people i estimate cannabis products much much safer than most prescription drugs.

That is an interesting study @Sick Vape thank you for sharing it.

Does anyone have any clinical info on CBD and Sleep / Sleep apnea??

(For that matter Cannabis as a whole plant regarding sleep/apnea would also be interesting.

 

[Sick Vape]

Does anyone have any clinical info on CBD and Sleep / Sleep apnea??

(For that matter Cannabis as a whole plant regarding sleep/apnea would also be interesting.

I did not find anything. Just studies on THC and sleep apnea (There seems to be evidence).
From far it looks like none was made with whole plant cannabis.

 

[Dynavaper]

My sincere apologies that it took me so long to come back to this thread, but I carried out some extensive experiments and can now say without doubt that the CBD is NEITHER the cause of my sleep apnea, NOR does it make anything worse.

I found it important to note that here again to avoid people searching for the topic, finding this thread and taking the information with them that CBD might cause sleep apnea.

The main reason is (besides physical predisposition) that I weigh too much (Hey, I am not fat. I am just built with sustainability in mind, my closest relatives are from the family of bears), that I often eat too late and that I still smoke tobacco from time to time in the late evening.

Not eating after 8pm and ideally no smoking (ideally never, at least not in the evening) made the sleep apnea nearly disappear.

 

[ginolicious]

Before you posted that update I was gonna post my thoughts on that I’ve never heard of such a thing with consuming CBD.