Benny Lava
Kenner
Left: ABV [http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/abv-concentrate-experiment-what-method-is-best.4331/]
Right: Power Plant
share that dab stash! (picture thread)
- Thread starter YoGranMazPimp
- Start date
Left: ABV [http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/abv-concentrate-experiment-what-method-is-best.4331/]
Right: Power Plant
I posted my experience with this Vortex bubble in my thread about bubble hash. Lets just say I thought it was another strain and took way too big of a hit!
http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/bubble-hash-production.8271/
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http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/bubble-hash-production.8271/
***
Doctor Vapor
Herb Doctor
Here is a nice puddle of wax in the bottom of a stainless extractor vessel. Extracted using "florasol" which is very inert and easy to remove completely in a recirculating extractor.
This one weighed in at a little over three ounces. Made from XXX OG.
Doctor Vapor
Herb Doctor
Florasol is essentially R134a refrigerant. We use a 10% hydrocarbon co-solvent so the wax is also extracted. Here's some info from : http://www.essentialoil.com/pages/dr-wilde-florasols
Florasols are:
never heated above room temperature
never exposed to acids
complete with all their volatile, fragrant and active components
approved for quality by many major pharmaceutical companies
manufactured with out the need of alcohol
entirely free of hexane and other toxic residues
approved for use in the European Community
This Revolutionary Process:
is very gentle
extracts no waxes or fats
emits nothing into the environment
produces no effluent
does not use toxic solvents
requires little energy
is not hazardous
Here is a commercial extractor using the process: https://sites.google.com/site/florasols/departments
Florasols are:
never heated above room temperature
never exposed to acids
complete with all their volatile, fragrant and active components
approved for quality by many major pharmaceutical companies
manufactured with out the need of alcohol
entirely free of hexane and other toxic residues
approved for use in the European Community
This Revolutionary Process:
is very gentle
extracts no waxes or fats
emits nothing into the environment
produces no effluent
does not use toxic solvents
requires little energy
is not hazardous
Here is a commercial extractor using the process: https://sites.google.com/site/florasols/departments
smokum
I am who I am and your approval isn't needed!
Never heard of florasol for our products...... interesting indeed !
Please start a thread on the process, I'm sure many would like to follow along and investigate for themselves if its feasible with a low or reasonable budget and publicly accessible 'tools'.
I'd like to also hear more about the end product
Please start a thread on the process, I'm sure many would like to follow along and investigate for themselves if its feasible with a low or reasonable budget and publicly accessible 'tools'.
I'd like to also hear more about the end product
Doctor Vapor
Herb Doctor
Never heard of florasol for our products...... interesting indeed !
Please start a thread on the process, I'm sure many would like to follow along and investigate for themselves if its feasible with a low or reasonable budget and publicly accessible 'tools'.
I'd like to also hear more about the end product
I'm a newcomer to FC although I've been lurking here for a long time. I do appreciate your suggestion but before starting a new thread I must tell everyone that this is not exactly a hobby level process. You can't do it on a low or even on a reasonable budget. Commercial units cost $80-120K and are only made in Europe at present. We have spent over $40K designing and building ours starting with a smaller scale unit and then using CAD to design the one you see here. I'm on the West Coast and will be offering the extracts through our collective to various dispensaries so patients will be able to sample the actual medicine. The problem has been the cost of making the concentrate is more than most places want to pay. The only way to make it reasonable is to make large batches with an expensive machine.
http://s21.postimage.org/f21nx6tqf/Xtractor_CU01_SM.jpg
http://s14.postimage.org/kxtb7la3l/xtractor_CAD.jpg
smokum
I am who I am and your approval isn't needed!
Ok..... as a commercial interest (and with requirements for 'SAFE' tech for consumer consumption), I can understand your 'stand' on what's considered 'necessary' as far as procedure.
But where there's a will, there's a way, for us general novice level folks to gain workarounds. More so with a solution that appears more user AND environment safe than the current ways being used today.
I'm no lab or tech guy personally, but my one off is it appears as a rig functioning as a distiller and a solution recovery unit so far.
This will take some digging, phone calls, and time....... but if it can be done on 'our' (user), level in anyway, it deserves the low level reserch attempt).
How does the product end up utilized ? dabs ? how is it in comparison to what the general public is accessing now ?
Welcome, and thanks for sharing the product pic.... we'd love to hear more info and product usage on the end result your showing.
But where there's a will, there's a way, for us general novice level folks to gain workarounds. More so with a solution that appears more user AND environment safe than the current ways being used today.
I'm no lab or tech guy personally, but my one off is it appears as a rig functioning as a distiller and a solution recovery unit so far.
This will take some digging, phone calls, and time....... but if it can be done on 'our' (user), level in anyway, it deserves the low level reserch attempt).
How does the product end up utilized ? dabs ? how is it in comparison to what the general public is accessing now ?
Welcome, and thanks for sharing the product pic.... we'd love to hear more info and product usage on the end result your showing.
Puffers
Micro-Climate Mastermind
Id say it looks like a recovery pump, an extraction chamber, and the extra cylinder in the CAD diagram I am guessing is the co-solvent. Very interesting though I wonder, why couldn't you pump florasol through a Tamasium Vessel or similar design. What state will your product be offered in?
Thank you for sharing DocVapor, welcome to FC.
Thank you for sharing DocVapor, welcome to FC.
Doctor Vapor
Herb Doctor
Thanks for your responses Puffers and smokum. Puffers, you seem to have a good grasp on the subject. This is a low pressure extraction and it is not a type of distillation.
I'm not as familiar with the Tamasium extractor but I do remember seeing a very fanciful CAD drawing and a ridiculous "investment opportunity" from them a few years back. Maybe they have done some more credible R&D since then. I will look into the newer products they offer when I get a chance. I think there are probably better extractors available
Can't help thinking that I could do a much better job building an end-user extractor my self. If I get some time to experiment, I will see if a small unit could be offered to enthusiasts like you. I'm not against sharing the tech with knowledgable folks who won't abuse it. One concern of mine is that the gas needs to be contained and recycled. Otherwise you might be considered an "eco terrorist" or something. (R134a is a greenhouse gas just as CO2 is.) Due to low pressure and non-flamability Florasol is much safer than CO2 or Butane.
Here are some pics of the end product and YES it is used for dabbing. After complete purging under vacuum it assumes a taffy-like consistency. Since it is never heated, the complete spectrum of terpenes is preserved. Smells and tastes great and tests (on a gas chromatograph) at 80-90% THC.
For scale here is a dabbing tool in the shot. The material is translucent and can be molded in your hands or stretched like taffy. The little 'snake' at the bottom is enough for 5 sweet and awesome dabs on a nail or electronic dab vaporizer. I'm using the new Vapor Brothers "Dabbler" that was just announced at CHAMPS. The CEO of VB is an old friend and I respect their dedication to vaping and patient health. I'm a patient myself so it matters to me that the materials and the hardware don't create additional health problems for already sick people.
I have a question for the people who use BHO. Do you know what Methyl Mercaptan is?
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/81-123/pdfs/0425.pdf
It decomposes to Carbon Monoxide and Sulfur Dioxide (rotten egg smell) Both are very toxic!
That's what you're inhaling if you use BHO made from anything but lab grade n-butane. It's hard to remove without heating and heating destroys many of the beneficial components of Cannabis.
Mercaptan is what makes the "Garlic" smell and it is required by the DOT in all shipments so leaks can be detected. Pure butane is odorless but you still need to heat the product under vacuum to get it all out.
I'm not as familiar with the Tamasium extractor but I do remember seeing a very fanciful CAD drawing and a ridiculous "investment opportunity" from them a few years back. Maybe they have done some more credible R&D since then. I will look into the newer products they offer when I get a chance. I think there are probably better extractors available
Can't help thinking that I could do a much better job building an end-user extractor my self. If I get some time to experiment, I will see if a small unit could be offered to enthusiasts like you. I'm not against sharing the tech with knowledgable folks who won't abuse it. One concern of mine is that the gas needs to be contained and recycled. Otherwise you might be considered an "eco terrorist" or something. (R134a is a greenhouse gas just as CO2 is.) Due to low pressure and non-flamability Florasol is much safer than CO2 or Butane.
Here are some pics of the end product and YES it is used for dabbing. After complete purging under vacuum it assumes a taffy-like consistency. Since it is never heated, the complete spectrum of terpenes is preserved. Smells and tastes great and tests (on a gas chromatograph) at 80-90% THC.
For scale here is a dabbing tool in the shot. The material is translucent and can be molded in your hands or stretched like taffy. The little 'snake' at the bottom is enough for 5 sweet and awesome dabs on a nail or electronic dab vaporizer. I'm using the new Vapor Brothers "Dabbler" that was just announced at CHAMPS. The CEO of VB is an old friend and I respect their dedication to vaping and patient health. I'm a patient myself so it matters to me that the materials and the hardware don't create additional health problems for already sick people.
I have a question for the people who use BHO. Do you know what Methyl Mercaptan is?
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/81-123/pdfs/0425.pdf
It decomposes to Carbon Monoxide and Sulfur Dioxide (rotten egg smell) Both are very toxic!
That's what you're inhaling if you use BHO made from anything but lab grade n-butane. It's hard to remove without heating and heating destroys many of the beneficial components of Cannabis.
Mercaptan is what makes the "Garlic" smell and it is required by the DOT in all shipments so leaks can be detected. Pure butane is odorless but you still need to heat the product under vacuum to get it all out.
Bob Loblaw
Astralnaut
yes, most of us here know to heat and purge our bho, at least as far as oil makers go. i don't really trust dispensary wax without giving it a heat and vacuum treatment. a tamisium is an n-butane closed system recycler. if florasol has an even lower boiling temp than n-butane and is extracted at even lower pressure, then it should be fine. it also can be used w/ a liquid co-solvent like ethanol or iso. they have been out for more than 5 yrs. now. very safe and effective extractor (if a little pricey, can you tell i own one) please let us non cali users in on the details. we aren't competition
ataxian
PALE BLUE DOT
I want my medicine from that machine!I'm a newcomer to FC although I've been lurking here for a long time. I do appreciate your suggestion but before starting a new thread I must tell everyone that this is not exactly a hobby level process. You can't do it on a low or even on a reasonable budget. Commercial units cost $80-120K and are only made in Europe at present. We have spent over $40K designing and building ours starting with a smaller scale unit and then using CAD to design the one you see here. I'm on the West Coast and will be offering the extracts through our collective to various dispensaries so patients will be able to sample the actual medicine. The problem has been the cost of making the concentrate is more than most places want to pay. The only way to make it reasonable is to make large batches with an expensive machine.
http://s21.postimage.org/f21nx6tqf/Xtractor_CU01_SM.jpg
http://s14.postimage.org/kxtb7la3l/xtractor_CAD.jpg
Bob Loblaw
Astralnaut
some nice kief and first purge LEAF shatter (black widow and og)
ataxian
PALE BLUE DOT
Very Nice!
Puffers
Micro-Climate Mastermind
Very interesting, particularly to someone who is EPA certified to handle/purchase refrigerants that are green house gasses
I take it you are using a dry or oil-less variation of 134a. I am not surprised considering that propane, butane and co2 can all be used as refrigerants. I used the Tamasium because it's the most common low pressure extraction system but there are others out there that would be viable for your purposes for much less then 40k I think.
This really deserves it's own thread. This is something the community could benefit from discussing but is off topic at this point.
That is some beautiful oil there DocVapor and I really respect your open discussion on the topic for the community. 
Doctor Vapor
Herb Doctor
Thank you all for welcoming me to this forum. I would like to answer more of your questions and will try to do that as time allows.
It has been fun "sharing dab stash" with you.
Bob, thanks for your response about the tamisium. I wish it was that simple, but it's not. Florasol is more like CO2 extraction in that it requires the gas to be recirculated through the material 10-20 times to get a decent yield.
I did look at their website and I guess the fact they are still in business says something. (I don't think it has been 5 years, maybe more like 3?) The extractors they actually make look pretty good. $25K for a 1Kg Butane extractor is a little steep. There's about $5K of parts in the other $20K is overhead and profit. (or some very expensive hoses,
) Maybe I have a better source for materials but it still looks like there's a huge markup. They weren't at CHAMPS in Las Vegas last month but they do seem to exhibit at trade shows so maybe I'll get a chance to see one up close sometime. Sad to say, they still have that dorky looking CAD picture. At least it's smaller now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If someone wants to start a thread for Florasol and I can find the time to do so I'll share more information about our experiments here on the left coast. We've been making concentrates for a long time now (more than 10 years) and we have used every imaginable process from Alcohol to Diethyl Ether to sub- and supercritical CO2. Butane is by far the easiest to do but, as you know, it has its drawbacks. (residue, toxins and fire or explosions for example) More than one person in Humboldt has killed themselves or sustained massive 3rd degree burns using butane. A poorly made CO2 extractor can explode from the pressure (3000psi) and cut a man in half. (it's happened)
Cannabis extracts are like different kinds of wines, there's high quality vintage wine and a full spectrum of quality down to crappy "box" wine. Quality is dependent on the strain of grape (or cannabis) you start with, the equipment and the knowledge of the maker.
Here is some light reading for those who are interested:
http://books.google.com/books?id=1m...nepage&q=co2 extractor loading factor&f=false
Keep on making those medicinal extracts and stay safe !
Doctor Vapor
Puffers, Looks like we were posting at the same time. Thanks so much for posting a picture of the extractor. I'm planning a trip to Portland to meet with the guys who make that one. They seem to have some great sources for hardware up there. I'm up in Mendo and about 3 hours from SF. PM me if you want to meet up or talk on the phone. I don't want to post any more off-topic here so let's start a new thread, OK?
New Thread started. It's called Florasol (R134a) extractions.
http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/florasol-r134a-extractions.8882/#post-360242
It has been fun "sharing dab stash" with you.
(snip) a tamisium is an n-butane closed system recycler. if florasol has an even lower boiling temp than n-butane and is extracted at even lower pressure, then it should be fine. (snip) please let us non cali users in on the details. we aren't competition
Bob, thanks for your response about the tamisium. I wish it was that simple, but it's not. Florasol is more like CO2 extraction in that it requires the gas to be recirculated through the material 10-20 times to get a decent yield.
I did look at their website and I guess the fact they are still in business says something. (I don't think it has been 5 years, maybe more like 3?) The extractors they actually make look pretty good. $25K for a 1Kg Butane extractor is a little steep. There's about $5K of parts in the other $20K is overhead and profit. (or some very expensive hoses,
) Maybe I have a better source for materials but it still looks like there's a huge markup. They weren't at CHAMPS in Las Vegas last month but they do seem to exhibit at trade shows so maybe I'll get a chance to see one up close sometime. Sad to say, they still have that dorky looking CAD picture. At least it's smaller now.----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If someone wants to start a thread for Florasol and I can find the time to do so I'll share more information about our experiments here on the left coast. We've been making concentrates for a long time now (more than 10 years) and we have used every imaginable process from Alcohol to Diethyl Ether to sub- and supercritical CO2. Butane is by far the easiest to do but, as you know, it has its drawbacks. (residue, toxins and fire or explosions for example) More than one person in Humboldt has killed themselves or sustained massive 3rd degree burns using butane. A poorly made CO2 extractor can explode from the pressure (3000psi) and cut a man in half. (it's happened)
Cannabis extracts are like different kinds of wines, there's high quality vintage wine and a full spectrum of quality down to crappy "box" wine. Quality is dependent on the strain of grape (or cannabis) you start with, the equipment and the knowledge of the maker.
Here is some light reading for those who are interested:
http://books.google.com/books?id=1m...nepage&q=co2 extractor loading factor&f=false
Keep on making those medicinal extracts and stay safe !
Doctor Vapor
Very interesting, particularly to someone who is EPA certified to handle/purchase refrigerants that are green house gasses
This really deserves it's own thread. This is something the community could benefit from discussing but is off topic at this point.
Puffers, Looks like we were posting at the same time. Thanks so much for posting a picture of the extractor. I'm planning a trip to Portland to meet with the guys who make that one. They seem to have some great sources for hardware up there. I'm up in Mendo and about 3 hours from SF. PM me if you want to meet up or talk on the phone. I don't want to post any more off-topic here so let's start a new thread, OK?
New Thread started. It's called Florasol (R134a) extractions.
http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/florasol-r134a-extractions.8882/#post-360242
Doctor Vapor
Herb Doctor
A little more posting that is on-topic...
This is Golden Glass (AKA Powdered Toast™)
Whole plant extract. 90%THC - 10% Terpenes and Flavanoids
Pure Crystalized Goodness!
hektik8625
Well-Known Member
Is this the full melt dry sift? Or bho? Looks nice!
A little more posting that is on-topic...
This is Golden Glass (AKA Powdered Toast™)
Whole plant extract. 90%THC - 10% Terpenes and Flavanoids
Pure Crystalized Goodness!
Doctor Vapor
Herb Doctor
It's not a kif, Not sifted water hash (which would be kif); not BHO either.
Powdered Toast is the triple-melt powdered pure cannabis resin. No plant material at all. Extracted using Clarke's third law.
Have you heard of a process called spray-drying? Commonly used to make powdered milk.
If you'r unfamiliar with Clarke's third law or spray drying, JFGI.
Powdered Toast is the triple-melt powdered pure cannabis resin. No plant material at all. Extracted using Clarke's third law.
Have you heard of a process called spray-drying? Commonly used to make powdered milk.
If you'r unfamiliar with Clarke's third law or spray drying, JFGI.
Bob Loblaw
Astralnaut
or google cannabis alchemy. damn that's a dangerous process. if ya got the equipment tho. wish i was in cali. arthur c. 's the man
Doctor Vapor
Herb Doctor
Hey Bob - bet you didn't have to look up Art's 3rd law. I was sad when he passed in 2008 but he did live to the ripe old age of 90. An amazing visionary who foresaw many cool things.
Yeah Cannabis Alchemy. I heard it has something to do with refluxing oil in an H2SO4 solution to create THC acetate. Gotta try that someday. Can't be more dangerous than making BHO in a poorly ventilated space.
Yeah Cannabis Alchemy. I heard it has something to do with refluxing oil in an H2SO4 solution to create THC acetate. Gotta try that someday. Can't be more dangerous than making BHO in a poorly ventilated space.
Quetzalcoatl
DEADY GUERRERO/DIRT COBAIN/GEORGE KUSH
Blue Dream!
Bob Loblaw
Astralnaut
god shatter is gorgeous in the sun!
DabComa
Stuck in Dab Coma
Here's a pic of some home made goodies, not quite sure what to call it but it has the ability to fracture off at room temp, 70° for me right now, but a little warming up with your body heat can get it to taffy up. Very handle able, leaves almost no residue handling it just leaves a slight stickiness for a few minutes. BHO extract using good flowers ( unsure of strains specific name, but have pics) retains most of its flavor and smells great, use it in my 710 pen and the taste is beautiful.
Unfortunately i have no vacuum but its in the works.
Unfortunately i have no vacuum but its in the works.