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Room for another Log Vape Maker (in Aus)?

Discussion in 'Ask FC' started by Kamikaze Viking, Sep 11, 2016.

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  1. Kamikaze Viking

    Kamikaze Viking Active Member

    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    Aus
    Hi,

    Been lurking for a while and doing a lot of reading around here.
    I'm an IT guy who's just sick of it, and trying to get something going on the side.
    Living in Australia and all the recent announcements of things slowly becoming legal soon I'm curious if there is room in the Australian market for locally made logs?

    And if so.

    Then I guess its time to start ordering heaters and build my prototype.

    Based on what i've read about the Underdog and others I think i need a Cartridge heater with the following properties (or close to it, and then I adjust my design around it)
    12V @0.6A
    20Ohm
    ~35W
    I know that the original logs used a ceramic ohmite 25j20re resistors as from this thread http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/log-vape-resistors-my-diy-log-vape.10880/
    Can anyone please confirm this for me, then I'll get started (I've already started collecting tools, stainless steel tubing, and some nice old wood.)
     
    Thcgos, Prolusio, seaofgreens and 8 others like this.
  2. ZC

    ZC Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    734
    Don't know about the market in australia, but you got the specs right.
     
    Vapor_Eyes and grokit like this.
  3. Stevenski

    Stevenski Enter the Dragon

    Messages:
    1,403
    Location:
    'straya mate
    The market is rather different in Oz compared to the rest of the world. Such a small population combined with high shipping costs (local & international) would make the product rather niche & I doubt there be enough demand to generate sufficient turnover to replace a salary.

    I am sure there are a few members here who would support a local log maker, I know I would.
     
  4. Tommy10

    Tommy10 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,254
    Id love to say yes, but you'd want to sell 1000 a year at $250+ AUD.
     
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  5. Kamikaze Viking

    Kamikaze Viking Active Member

    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    Aus
    Yeah i wouldn't expect to make a salary off this unless something lucky happened, But it seems like i could make enough to cut back my IT work. While also giving me some satisfying work to do that's under my control.

    Also it seems that Vaping is still a relatively unheard of thing in many circles that I frequent. I love watching the expressions on my friends faces when they try it for the first time as compared to combustion.
     
    Thcgos, Prolusio, Vapenvy and 7 others like this.
  6. Tommy10

    Tommy10 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,254
    On a hobby level, and nail it enough to sell a few, I'm sure that is very achievable. Could easily see 20 sold on here and reddit. If you built it with small load water pipe use you'd attract a lot more people at head shops and such.
     
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  7. grokit

    grokit well-worn member

    Messages:
    11,789
    Location:
    the north
    I think there needs to be at least one log vape maker on each continent :science:
     
  8. hoptimum

    hoptimum Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,741
    If you build it, they will come.
     
  9. Vapor_Eyes

    Vapor_Eyes unfiltered

    Messages:
    1,872
    Location:
    On Demand Convection Land
    I say there can never be too many logs. If you can afford to do this as a hobby at first I say go for it! :tup:

    The simple act of creating something can be therapeutic and help release stress from your IT job.

    The vaporizer market is in its infancy. You have a great long term opportunity here. More combusters are converting to vaping every day, and cannabis restrictions are loosening all over the world. By establishing yourself now with some high quality hand crafted logs, you will have a good chance at capitalizing on these trends.

    Also, with Australia being fairly isolated you have a home field advantage over the other log manufacturers.

    One good thing about logs is that some people like to collect multiples. Even with a smaller customer base you can potentially sell a decent amount. I would recommend creating logs with a variety of exotic woods and to keep changing up the selection. Keep your prices as affordable as possible, but don't undervalue your work either!
     
  10. Kamikaze Viking

    Kamikaze Viking Active Member

    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    Aus
    So i got an email back from the cartridge heater people and they say the maths is wrong

    "It appears there are several relevant math issues here.

    12V and 0.6A is 20 Ohms and would be 7.2W not 35W"

    I'm thinking the lower wattage might be due to using a purpose built heater instead of a ceramic resistor. Hence the need for less wattage due to the heat transferring better. Or the resistance of the cartridge heater is different.
    I think i might hold off talking to them, wait for my tools and mutimeter etc to arrive (my dad's shed full of tools i used to use just moved 2 hours further away) and buy a few off the shelf heaters to experiment with.

    maybe I should try something like either of these.

    10W
    http://www.comstatinc.com/high-density-cartridge-heater-12v/10w-p-683-l-en.html
    30W
    http://www.comstatinc.com/high-density-cartridge-heater-12v/30w-p-687-l-en.html
    40W
    http://www.comstatinc.com/high-density-cartridge-heater-12v/40w-p-743-l-en.html

    Get 2 of each and then just experiment from there.

    thoughts?
     
  11. Tommy10

    Tommy10 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,254
    12v 40w with some way to make it variable and WPA. Open round air intake on the side like the herbalaire and you could even have a bag blowing bowl!
     
    Vapor_Eyes likes this.
  12. Kamikaze Viking

    Kamikaze Viking Active Member

    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    Aus
    Haven't posted in a while.

    Since you guys were supportive I've gone and gotten started.

    Here are a few select pics of my progress.

    First Heater core - long way to go - [​IMG]

    First few attempts at turning, next to my Maple Underdog - [​IMG]

    That's starting to look right - [​IMG]

    shiny new tools - [​IMG]

    Getting there with my turning but i keep crashing/catching on the end grain. More practice needed. [​IMG]

    I've also worked out the maths of the heaters and have an order in place for some proper ones (the 3d printer ones don't cut it)
     
    Drexciya, Thcgos, jimt0r and 16 others like this.
  13. little maggie

    little maggie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,674
    There are a lot of new vapes in the works- from RBT and Ed in addition to the ones that are already available. Still those are beautiful. Someone suggested connecting it with some kind of small water device. That would be unique. Also you can never tell what will develop here at FC. I hope this goes well.
     
    ambertrichome likes this.
  14. Kamikaze Viking

    Kamikaze Viking Active Member

    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    Aus
    Yeah trying to add something unique in a market that keeps innovating. I've been watching it all evolve so quickly in the 18mths since i discovered vapes. I hope i can make something people want.
     
    Drexciya, Thcgos, GreenHopper and 5 others like this.
  15. Enialis

    Enialis Member

    Messages:
    19
    I think there's plenty of room for log vapes worldwide, considering theres only the e-nano, underdog, HI, and wychwood afaik
     
    Vapor_Eyes likes this.
  16. Chill_Break

    Chill_Break Member

    Messages:
    2
    As an aussie ent I'd be very interested.
     
    ambertrichome and Vapor_Eyes like this.
  17. Poostuff

    Poostuff Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    420
    Looks like that's two prototypes you've almost finished, I think it's pretty much standard practice in the vaporizer industry to offer to take preorders now ;)
    Hey but seriously keep up the great work, lots of us are interested to see what you turn out. Best of luck.
     
  18. Kamikaze Viking

    Kamikaze Viking Active Member

    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    Aus
    Hello fellow Ents!

    Sorry it’s been a while, I got delayed by having a job for a while.

    Time to write up an update and show off some pics.

    It’s taken a while to get good on the lathe and learn how to do things better, then in a few cases get better tools and try again. As well as learning about how different woods handle and how Redgum or Jarrah ruin my chisels sharpness soooo soooo quickly.

    Got my first heater core design refined a bit and initial testing seems really good side by side with my underdog std core for comparison. So far I've had decent Vapor and ZERO accidental burn off.

    Next step is to get one part I need made custom out of stainless before I can give out a few to friends for extended testing.

    I'm making as much effort as possible to only use Wood, Stainless Steel, Lead Free Solder, Silicon, Leather and food safe glues (away from the heat). And I’ve been finishing the wood in Beeswax/Citrus oil that smells really nice.

    I guess it’s probably time for people to PM me if you are interested so I can gauge how much in accessory parts I need to track down such as glass stems, packaging, power connectors and 12v power packs & in line dimmers that are approved for Australian use.

    And of course go through all my numbers and work out a price. I guess I’m aiming at a similar price to what cost me to import an Underdog from the US. Fingers crossed.

    Then if enough people are interested I’ll need to work out the exact legal situation locally in SA (I hope things change soon), a basic website and payment methods (any advice or help appreciated so I don’t take forever).

    I guess I need a cool name too.

    Anyway, on with the good stuff, here’s the pics:

    Glamour shot of Assorted Logs & stems:-
    [​IMG]

    Wood and Glass stems, stainless steel screens, copper cups for aromatherapy oils:- [​IMG]

    Half finished Redgum 1st test Log :-
    [​IMG]

    First set of tests I got up to 225 deg C while aiming to match the 235 deg C i’d measured on my Underdog:-
    [​IMG]

    The first 4 test cores:-
    [​IMG]

    2 half finished Pine ones on a tray (I made the tray too):-
    [​IMG]

    During the seconds set of tests I measured top temp @242-245 deg C. This seems to be where it sits after properly warming up – Here is a new pic I took just now:-
    [​IMG]

    Bonus: a couple of Mighty stands I made up:-
    [​IMG]

    Apologies for the potato camera. I’ll get better pics taken later.

    I hope you all like this.

    Cheers
    Kamikaze Viking.
     
  19. Krahl

    Krahl Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    97
    I have just found this thread in my search for a new vape and before i order from overseas, i was wondering if these are going to become a reality and be for sale at some point, They look really cool
     
    Vapor_Eyes and ambertrichome like this.
  20. Kamikaze Viking

    Kamikaze Viking Active Member

    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    Aus
    I'm working on it, But I'm an amateur at this point and I'm stuck at the moment with getting a key stainless steel part made, Or i need to change the way i do things, which cant really happen when I'm doing it in my kitchen at this time. (i need a sound proof shed with a bedroom attached, i cant exactly swap to welding when doing it in 2nd floor apartment kitchen)

    As well as real life issues slowing me down.

    I've had lots of friends finding and dropping off some beautiful wood (eg an amazing redgum piece with a white streak).
    And I've been practicing making the outer wooden casings and stems and 14mm and 18mm WonG's from the same piece of wood as the main case- [​IMG]


    An then of course the Recent annoucment of Ed's TNT Woodscents log, oh boy talk about raising the bar.

    Fingers crossed i can get this done soon.

    Cheers
     
    Drexciya, ensabbahnur, Thcgos and 8 others like this.
  21. Krahl

    Krahl Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    97
    Good luck. Looks amazing. Really hope it all works out for you
     
    Vapor_Eyes and Kamikaze Viking like this.
  22. jimt0r

    jimt0r Active Member

    Messages:
    30
    Location:
    Oz
    love your work bro,

    the pictures of the stuff ya don't have here look even better.
    I hope that last kink gets worked out and we get to see some working units
     
    Vapor_Eyes likes this.
  23. Abysmal Vapor

    Abysmal Vapor Shaman of The Pyramid of Orlin'Malah

    Messages:
    2,757
    Location:
    7th heaven - 666th pit (EU)
    Sure there is,every country should have a log vape maker not just every continent ,i love all my logs ! I have also DIYed some logs for friends,using test tubes and classic log vape resistor,but never cared to do it neat enough,operation is the main goal.. Once i even managed to make all glass log vape with the heater capsulated in a test tube, but a friend broke it a while ago,and never got to making a new one.I've seen those cartridge heaters around i might try them out, is there a huge performance difference ?
    Wish you good luck with your project ,i will be following to see how it unfolds !!
     
    Vapor_Eyes likes this.
  24. little maggie

    little maggie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,674
    The logs look lovely. I know this is not the direction you're taking because log makers and portable makers don't necessarily coexist but given the wood what about a butane one as well? Something that's based on the lily. Right now there are 2 companies doing that: the dobby company in Germany and the stickybrick company in the US.
     
  25. Kamikaze Viking

    Kamikaze Viking Active Member

    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    Aus
    I certainly have ideas for phase 2 and 3 if i ever get that far. Things like digital temp control & battery packs. I guess a Butane vape idea isn't too far off base but I've never thought about making one. A friend just got 2 Dynavap M's which I cant wait to try, that will probably give me ideas.

    Recently I've made progress in making the stainless fitting I need, but I'm still not quite there yet until i make a jig and get access to a good drill press.

    And I've got a new set of 3 Carbide lathe tools on the way, which should help with all these Australian Hardwoods. I've got some old railway sleeper wood from a friends garden that my dad identified as Victorian Ash which is so dense that it killed the edges on my starter chisels in no time, I had to sharpen them 3 times while making a tool handle from the stuff. Cant wait to make a log from it once the carbide arrives.

    But I have been working on a special fancy arty piece, but i think i should hold off on showing it until I have something working to show you all.

    I'll keep you in the loop.

    Cheers!
     

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