Reusing material at different temperatures for different effect

[DiogenesOfSinope]

Hi, this is my first post. I've had a look in the forum to see if this question has already been asked in this form before and can't see anything, but if it has - and I've missed it - or if it's in the wrong sections, apologies. Whilst this question will be helpful to me, I hope that others will find this topic interesting.

Anyway, I've just got my first vaporizer: an Extreme-Q (v.4). I know all the basic things like the is an approximate 11C difference between the displayed temperature and the vaporising temperature and the necessary temperature of various cannabinoids etc.

My question concerns the correct temperature to vaporise at for the purposes I want it for. I know that it is an individual preference thing and I will obviously have to experiment but I was hoping I may benefit from others' knowledge in order to quicken my learning curve.

Firstly, my primary reason for vaping is get a very psychoactive/heady high in order to assist me with painting. My first question is therefore: considering the similarity between vpaing temperatures of 9-THC and CBD is it possible to extract just 9-THC? And would this be desirable if one was trying to get a really psychoactive high? CBD is supposed to have antipsychotic qualities so eliminating this from the vapour could make for a more psychoactive high. I know 9-THC vapes at 157C and CBD is a range between 160-180C so it must be theoretically possible, but it's a question of whether it's practically possible. Would there be any benefit, for instance, in aiming for 165C? This could potentially extract some CBD whilst guaranteeing as good 9-THC extraction.

Secondly, supposing it were possible to extract just 9-THC in the first run, would it be possible/desirable to reuse the material in order to get a CBD and CBN only effect? Would this even be desirable or would this be an unusual and agressive stoning effect? I know the 8-THC would still be intact following the first run so at the very least there would be some psychoactive effect from this. The question is would this be a pleasant experience in the experience of this forum?) I will, of course, find out in due course myself and report back. The reason why I am interested in this question is because such material could be saved for the end of a session in order to aid sleeping as well as potentially getting a benefit from CBD's protective qualities afterwards. And could CBD have a retroactive protective effect or would it need to be consumed concurrently with 9-THC in order for this to happen?

Thirdly, supposing it were possible to extract just 9-THC in the first run as above, how long would the material still be good to use for a second run? A couple of hours? A Day? Three days? A weeks? I'm obviously not after a definitive answer on this; just general experiences on this would be helpful.

 

[KeroZen]

Welcome on board. You keep talking about a question but you end asking 8 different questions in your post...

The ordered answers are: "no", "it depends", "yes", "kindof", "not that agressive", "yes", "concurrently", "hard to say"...

More seriously I used to think like you when I started vaping and was even trying to learn as much as possible about the various boiling points and the numerous compounds, terpenes and what not. Well, it looks good on paper but it doesn't work this way in practice.

Not only are many of the online charts of questionable usefulness (big variations in the quoted figures, some are fixed points others are ranges, controversy about benzene and other carcinogens etc) but more importantly, you have to keep in mind this is not a binary process, it's more complex in reality.

In fact it's so complex I wouldn't risk trying to sound like the expert I am not, so I prefer to stop here. Many of these topics were already discussed on the forum so I invite you to keep reading as there are a lot of gems to find.

Let's just say that there is some truth in what you suspect but in practice we tend to only experience three different vaping temperature ranges: low, medium and high temps. There is a noticeable difference on the kind of high you will get and on the speed at which the taste/flavor will degrade. But the genetic make-up of your strain(s) plays an even more important role here.

To make a gross simplification:
- low temps = heady (psychoactive/creative/uplifting) and yummy
- med temps = balanced
- high temps = more sedative (sleep and pain management/relaxing/couch-lock) and worse taste
+
- indica = more sedative
- sativa = more psychoactive

Opinions might differ but I'd say below 180°C = low, 180°C - 200°C = med, above 200°C = high.

 

[puddleglum]

A very interesting scientific question, indeed!

You could easily sidestep the entire issue by buying/making some concentrates (which can be very high in THC).

 

[DiogenesOfSinope]

Welcome on board. You keep talking about a question but you end asking 8 different questions in your post...

The ordered answers are: "no", "it depends", "yes", "kindof", "not that agressive", "yes", "concurrently", "hard to say"...

More seriously I used to think like you when I started vaping and was even trying to learn as much as possible about the various boiling points and the numerous compounds, terpenes and what not. Well, it looks good on paper but it doesn't work this way in practice.

Not only are many of the online charts of questionable usefulness (big variations in the quoted figures, some are fixed points others are ranges, controversy about benzene and other carcinogens etc) but more importantly, you have to keep in mind this is not a binary process, it's more complex in reality.

In fact it's so complex I wouldn't risk trying to sound like the expert I am not, so I prefer to stop here. Many of these topics were already discussed on the forum so I invite you to keep reading as there are a lot of gems to find.

Let's just say that there is some truth in what you suspect but in practice we tend to only experience three different vaping temperature ranges: low, medium and high temps. There is a noticeable difference on the kind of high you will get and on the speed at which the taste/flavor will degrade. But the genetic make-up of your strain(s) plays an even more important role here.

To make a gross simplification:
- low temps = heady (psychoactive/creative/uplifting) and yummy
- med temps = balanced
- high temps = more sedative (sleep and pain management/relaxing/couch-lock) and worse taste
+
- indica = more sedative
- sativa = more psychoactive

Opinions might differ but I'd say below 180°C = low, 180°C - 200°C = med, above 200°C = high.

ZeroKen, thanks for the welcome. That's helpful. I shall have to keep looking to see if there's anything I've missed in the forum.

To clarify, my first question relating to extract just 9-THC should have more accurately said 'is it possible to extract all substances with a boiling temperature upto and including 9-THC?' In other words, I am considering substances other than 9-THC, 8-THC, CBD and CBN to be unimportant in this discussion, though I know that is a simplification of the chemistry behind the effect.

I agree with you that what I am suggesting is a practical nightmare even if it looks good on paper. And I suppose my uncertainties come down to two key questions: does a low temp vape generally include CBD? and if so, does it have to? In other words, if a low temp vape probably does include CBD to a greater or lesser degree -which I can infer from the approximate temps you laid out - is it possible to get an extra low temp effect which is actually worth while and not a waste of bud?

I can see that these may be complicated question in light of the indication you gave that there is disagreement on what temperatures constitute which effect.

I suppose the question of how long the material used for a low temp run would be good for. For instance, I think that CBN is produced as 9-THC is broken down (though I'm not 100% on this). Thus, in theory, if there was any 9-THC left in tact following the first run leaving it longer could produce an even more stoning effect.

Thanks again.

 

[puddleglum]

This is the most informative guide I've ever read on how to extract different cannabinoids using a vaporizer: http://forum.grasscity.com/incredib...g-individual-cannabinoids-badkittysmiles.html

But I've never tried it personally. I like CBD.

ps Here is another discussion going on simultaneously that might interest you. The OP talks about how to achieve an "energetic and focused" high (as opposed to a "blurry, warm body high"):

http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/the-different-high-of-concentrates-vs-flowers.16972/

 

[DiogenesOfSinope]

This is the most informative guide I've ever read on how to extract different cannabinoids using a vaporizer: http://forum.grasscity.com/incredib...g-individual-cannabinoids-badkittysmiles.html

But I've never tried it personally. I like CBD.

ps Here is another discussion going on simultaneously that might interest you. The OP talks about how to achieve an "energetic and focused" high (as opposed to a "blurry, warm body high"):

http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/the-different-high-of-concentrates-vs-flowers.16972/

Puddlegum, thanks for this. It looks really interesting, especially when you take into account herbivore21's suggestion (on the second link) that CBD may not actually cause drowsiness. This would make sense, I think, in light of accounts which indicate a graduated effect from heady to body from 180C and beyond. In other words, it could be the other compounds above 180C which are causing drowsiness.

 

[Solomon]

Excellent and succinct info in this thread, and I think your answers are more addressed on the "medicinal" side of things where they are always looking for specific chemistry to match specific symptoms.

I vape for pain management, but I've found that the more I try to get really specific with the "effect" I want, the less it seems to work. In other words, for me and my pain, the analgesic/sedative mixed with some of the more psychoactive chemicals is better than just one or the other. Similarly, I've found the slight euphoria I get with narcotic pain relievers improves my "mood", which in turn reduces my stress levels, which in turn reduces my overall pain levels. I imagine that weed works in much the same way.

This short video shows the results of an actual lab experiment where they vaped weed at specific temperatures and then measured the actual chemical breakdown at each temperature. I liked this study because it didn't theorize about what should or shouldn't occur - they just vaped the weed and measured the results (using a spectrum analyzer).

Oh, to answer one of your other questions about the vaping remains, a lot of people use the ABV in cooking. I've found the effects to be almost purely analgesic and sedative, so while you might not want that while creating art, it might come in handy if you need help sleeping or are having some pain.

 

[howie105]

Hi and High
Welcome to the herd, I hope you enjoy yourself and find at least some of the information you are looking for. Now off to the meat, my Lady prefers the heady highs and taste we get from low temperature cooks from our MFLB. That means we half cook a load (both temp and number of possible hits) and store it for later use, usually when I am looking for something more sedative of evening use. Given the above, I think I have a partial handle on what you are asking about.
To achieve the really fine levels of active ingredient separation presented by some charts and sources requires levels of control beyond what we mere mortals have setting around in our homes. However we can play the yes, no game fairly easily. Some quick notes and observations will tell us what range of device settings provide the effects we are looking for or not. One thing I would suggest is pay attention to the details involved in the whole process. Keep the level of grind and moisture as constant as reasonably possible as well as the times involved in the cook and length of the draw.
Oops, almost forgot you third bit on storage time, at my normal room temperature 67-78 Fahrenheit I have stored partially used trenches for up to four months and still found them useful however there was some small observable downward change in the buzz. Its the old dry dark and reasonable temperature thing.
At any rate welcome to the forum and enjoy.

 

[DiogenesOfSinope]

Hi and High
Welcome to the herd, I hope you enjoy yourself and find at least some of the information you are looking for. Now off to the meat, my Lady prefers the heady highs and taste we get from low temperature cooks from our MFLB. That means we half cook a load (both temp and number of possible hits) and store it for later use, usually when I am looking for something more sedative of evening use. Given the above, I think I have a partial handle on what you are asking about.
To achieve the really fine levels of active ingredient separation presented by some charts and sources requires levels of control beyond what we mere mortals have setting around in our homes. However we can play the yes, no game fairly easily. Some quick notes and observations will tell us what range of device settings provide the effects we are looking for or not. One thing I would suggest is pay attention to the details involved in the whole process. Keep the level of grind and moisture as constant as reasonably possible as well as the times involved in the cook and length of the draw.
Oops, almost forgot you third bit on storage time, at my normal room temperature 67-78 Fahrenheit I have stored partially used trenches for up to four months and still found them useful however there was some small observable downward change in the buzz. Its the old dry dark and reasonable temperature thing.
At any rate welcome to the forum and enjoy.

howie105, thanks for the info. That sounds about what I was thinking. In terms of storage four months seems quite impressive, even if its effect degrades. Knowing this will give me the confidence to experiment with storing the results of a first run for a while.

I plan to fill a bad rather than use a whip. With this method of delivery would you only fill one bag then reserve for CBD/CBN use or is it normal to make a couple of bags? I know the MFLB only has a draw straw so this may be a difficult question. I suppose I am saying is all 9-THC used up in a low temp run or can a couple of low temp runs be made before reserving for high temp runs?

One again, thanks guys. Responses to this thread, as well as other threads on this forum, have been great.

 

[HomeFree]

As KeroZen pointed out, you can vape at a low temp and stop when you get your desired effect. I like lower temps myself, unless I just want some lung busters, then I will turn the heat up right off the bat. I also do steps with temperatures as well, but some of the high temp inhales are hard to hold in for me, even though the vapor is probably not very warm and not much visible vapor escapes.

I will often do loads out of a Solo through water at a 2, start inhaling once the second light comes on, not very warm, and then let it heat up. But the lower temps are tasty and yield a nice effect, not debilitating.

LOL your username is diogenes...