regulated vs unregulated power supplies for "log vapes"

[OhTheAgony]

Yeah, that looks a bit more usable Dickie, thanks. Enjoyed a peak at the guts of the BT as well

I have missed that thread completely, but that's a nice little gadget you found there Alan!

I think it's better if people spend a few bucks more to get a cheap multimeter though. That way they'd have a way to measuring the resistance of their logs as well, which seems rather crucial if you want to determine what voltage you'd need.

 

[OhTheAgony]

I just posted this in the UD thread, but I figure the info belongs here too:

I received my little dimmer switch today, the one that vap999 posted earlier, and I have to say it works just great icw my 13,8V PSU.

Below 6V it is really hard to find a specific voltage, but after that it's no problem at all. I almost have to turn my dial an entire cm to go from 12V to 13V.

To get down from maximum to 12V takes me 3 times times the length of the unexposed part of the dial on the side, or 3 thumb movements.

 

[vap999]

I just posted this in the UD thread, but I figure the info belongs here too:

I received my little dimmer switch today, the one that vap999 posted earlier, and I have to say it works just great icw my 13,8V PSU.

Below 6V it is really hard to find a specific voltage, but after that it's no problem at all. I almost have to turn my dial an entire cm to go from 12V to 13V.

To get down from maximum to 12V takes me 3 times times the length of the unexposed part of the dial on the side, or 3 thumb movements.

Can you yet confirm (what we already know from the way these work) that this simple dimmer, when used with a slightly-higher power (voltage) supply:
a) effectively controls the vaporizer's ambient/unused temperature? Turn the down from its maximum or any other setting and the temp. goes down, etc.?
b) the settings are linear? That is, turn the dial up (enough to have a perceivable effect, if you don't have a digital thermometer) and the vaporizer temperature goes up incrementally?
c) the settings are fully reproducible? That is, if you set a mark for a favored sweat spot (ambient temp. setting) and you come back later and set it to the exact same spot (perhaps marked), the temperature will be same (i.e., any difference is not perceptible)?

I think all log-style vaporizer users should seriously consider having a fully variable power supply, and log vaporizer manufacturers should offer this universally. This is as simple as adding a $4-$10 in-line dimmer switch with a standard 13-14 volt adapter (can be DC or AC, regulated or unregulated). E.g., see http://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-DC-12V-2...ltDomain_0&hash=item256e86c5ed#ht_4337wt_1063
Also, even if never used indoors, the dimmer switch can be used to fine-tune power/temperature settings when used in your car/truck/RV/boat, which operate at up to 14 volts (likely too hot for most log vaporizers).

 

[OhTheAgony]

Yes to all 3 points, but not with my 13,8V unfortunately

Apparently my 13,8V is not a regulated PSU. I get variations up to a volt on the spot I had marked as 12V. Only upwards though, the voltage was never lower at the marked spot when I measured it for some reason. With my regulated PSU it's pretty much dead on every time, but you'd really need some kinda voltage read out with a unregulated power supply if you want precise control.

edit: I've been checking from time to time over the last half hour or so. The dimmer is still pretty consistent with my 13,8V. The voltage goes up and down in waves from 12V to 13V on the marked setting, but it does stay between those values. I now get why sometimes my variable PSU felt a bit 'cold' compared to the 13,8V, my 13,8V runs at 15,5V at it's peaks

 

[okikir]

Hi OTA,

I can see your quest for the perfect set-up is still on!

Well it looks like this tiny dimmer wouldn't suit my needs as it could overheat my UD sometimes.
On my side I may retrieve a free 13.2v PS from a friend this week, this could be the perfect match for me as I tend to find the original 12v set-up a bit light when bedtime is coming, and as our 13.8v PS gives me some scary red reflections ...

I'll keep you informed on that

 

[vap999]

Well it looks like this tiny dimmer wouldn't suit my needs as it could overheat my UD sometimes.

How could using a dimmer or any variable power supply ever result in overheating, unless you simply set the power level too high? Presuming you have a setup that runs 'hot,' why not just patch-in a dimmer switch and dial down to any desired lower temperature (power level)?

 

[okikir]

I want to avoid it because of my 13.8v configuration going way hotter after +20mn of use.
This + the fact that OTA said the dimmer wasn't super acccurate and a variation of +1v has been recorded lately.

Anyway I should get a free 13.2v PS today or tomorrow, I will then be able to see if it is what I need.
I don't wan't to hurt my ud!

 

[OhTheAgony]

The dimmer is not at fault for the variations Okikir, that's because the 13,8V PSU we have isn't regulated and keeps changing the input voltage. I can still set it so it won't go over a certain voltage now I know how it works after doing some measurements and putting on some markings on it at different values.

I suspect your heating element has a fairly low resistance, that's why your element can turn glowing red while my can't under the same voltage. I would recommend measuring the resistance first before you do any further experimenting. If you don't have a multimeter or can't borrow one from a friend you could take your UD to a electronics part-shop perhaps. I'm sure they can give you a quick measurement there, it won't even take a minute. If you know the resistance we can calculate a safe maximum voltage for your UD. You can still use your 13,8V with the dimmer switch if you want to, just don't turn it all the way up to maximum. It's probably safer to only use these dimmers when you have the means to measure what you're doing though. It's gonna be a lot of guessing otherwise.

Do you know if that 13,2V PSU you're getting is regulated or not?

 

[okikir]

Hi!

OTA: Thx for educating me dude
I'm OK with these explanations, yet I won't get into measurements as I think I'll stay with my current setup:

- 12v PSU (provided with the ud): gives me big clouds and a nice high, a great taste and a great and surprizing amount of hits, with a golden abv

- 13.2v PSU (I can't say whether it is regulated or not, sry): gives me the most of my MJ, leaves a dark brown abv and is of great efficiency before bed or when in need for strong medication


Yesterday I left the 13.2v PSU on for 2 hours straight, I couldn't notice any red reflections in the core (I obviously can't say the same thing for my eyes, as far as I remember )

BTW do you think saving my dark brown abv could be useful in some way?

 

[OhTheAgony]

No problem man, whatever works for you!

I always keep my dark ABV. I used to eat it (about 6 to 8 gram in a fire-cracker has me tripping all day long), but lately I've become a bit more aware of what I use. Since I have no way of knowing what exactly is in my weed in terms of bacterias and spores and whatnot I've decided to save it for BHO instead unless I know the grower personally or have grown it myself.

 

[u bwade wunner]

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1-Pro-Ta...68534?pt=Tattoos_Body_Art&hash=item19ca277f56

so i recieved the power supply above in the the mail a few weeks ago.The first thing i did was remove the footswitch socket and shorted that circuit inside the PSU.it is a simple unit with no internal fan.

It worked fine until the unit reached operating temperature and then just as the PSU casing was getting hot .the voltage began to drop slowly then quicker until it hovered around the 6v mark and stayed there.moving the voltage knob gave me zilch.

I spoke to a friend who is an auto electrician and a tattoist and he said that tattoo power supplies are constantly being switched on and off so they are not designed to stay on permanently.

so maybe its overheating.The sellers on ebay are posting me a new unit free of charge.

You have to be careful with these PSU s.I had my Hi up to 15v and the inside of my hi was glowing like the mouth of mount doom.looked like a lightbulb in there..oops after turning the voltage down I was relieved all was ok.


its all testing and it will be good to find a cheap reliable variable supply> I guess thats where a regulated supply wins hands down

How are you getting on with youre PSU OTH?.is it all you expected it to be?

I also see Alan is considering supplying voltage meters now with his Hi so a true voltage reading can be achieved while the unit is in use.

would love to see the temperature leds built into the side wall of the Hi.That would be the bomb!

 

[hazy]

That's a bummer. The tattoo power supply that I got has been working well. I leave it on all day. It does get quite warm because the regulator chip is bolted to the case.

 

[u bwade wunner]

well that sounds positive.I could have bought a dud.thanks hazy.i ll let you know how the new unit goes

 

[Hippie Dickie]

I also see Alan is considering supplying voltage meters now with his Hi so a true voltage reading can be achieved while the unit is in use.

me thinks a temperature readout would be more useful. even with a fixed voltage the temp changes as the vape heat-saturates.

 

[hazy]

u bwade wunner, seeing as you don't mind opening up the unit, try having a look at how the regulator chip is mounted. If you're keen you could bolt it to a piece of aluminium plate or similar to act as a heatsink.

 

[u bwade wunner]

its bolted to the thin stainless casing.maybe it needs like you say a larger heatsink..so the regulator is overheating?.... I see.

will have a look now

edit

I took out a piece of white tape which was sandwiched between the regulater and the stainless casing.It had a brown heat mark on it.Might have been left in there by mistake.i cant see how the tape would have helped in any way.I might put some heatsink paste in there that i got for my dual core processor way back .should help even more.ill try the supply without the lid on first and see does it make a difference.

edit

I just put my finger onto the base of PSU where the reg bolts on to it.It burnt my finger.Its frickin hot .the unit has been on for like 10 minutes.still holding voltage bur very hot where the reg is..

edit
1 hour later all good. volts are set to and remain static at 12v.just need to work out why the reg is so hot.

thanks a bunch Hazy.

 

[hazy]

Be careful with mounting the regulator. If it has a metal back on it, then that is live. The tape you found is to electrically isolate the chip from the case. Mica is usually used for this purpose.

The regulator does need to dissipate a few watts, so it is normal for it to be generating a fair amount of heat. It is getting hot due to poor heatsinking.

 

[u bwade wunner]

yes it is mica alright.

so I put the cover back on and its dropped to 6v again.You are spot on hazy. i think its time to get some heavy metal in thereand a few air channels courtesy of a dremmel in the case to allow for airflow through the unit.

ok so I ve cut 20mm of some alu angle 20mm x 20mm .bolted it in .testing unit now......

edit

Ok 1/2 hour or so after makeshift heatsink fitted.case has been refitted with no mods to it.Voltage is stable.Its a great result because now i have a second psu unit on its way.and i can alter that one too if need be.

thanks Hazy champ

 

[hazy]

Nice work! Hopefully it will hold up in the long term.

 

[OhTheAgony]

How are you getting on with youre PSU OTH?.is it all you expected it to be?

I also see Alan is considering supplying voltage meters now with his Hi so a true voltage reading can be achieved while the unit is in use.

would love to see the temperature leds built into the side wall of the Hi.That would be the bomb!

I see you've sorted most out already with Hazy's help, so I'll just answer this question.

Yes.



No really it's awesome. The backlight of the display is a little bright when you leave it on at night, but that's the only negative I can come up with really.

My UD became so much more versatile now that I have temp control. It doesn't run to hot anymore as it often did when I was stuffing my UD under pillows or blankets, or with my unregulated 13,8V PSU that I have measured at peaks of 15,7V under load. I like to vape at high temps for a thorough extraction but I also like to leave as much flavor as possible, and with this thing I can find the sweetspot for all my different strains to do that. Turn it down a bit if I wanna make a hash bowl last longer, whatever you want basically. Just be careful with the settings you choose like you already noticed. I guess that's the plus side of my high-resistance heating element. Because of that mine can take the maximum output of 15V of my PSU without damaging the vape. The knobs are quite heavy to turn on mine btw, so it's basically impossible to change the voltage by accident.

Anyway, I can't imagine ever using a log without a variable PSU again now to be honest, and I think that the people who have been doing this for years are really missing out. With the difference in resistance in these heating elements and the different characteristics of wood I think they are a must. Alan is on the right track with his VVs, but if you want to do it properly I think they should come with something that's able to go a bit over 12V as well.

A temp readout like Dickie mentions would be ideal of course, but once you get to know your vape a bit it is possible to do without. If ABV color isn't an indication I can feel the vape's wood become hot on the outside after it's been on for 4 or 5 hours or so, that's usually my cue to turn it down half a volt to keep it at my preferred temperature.

ps: if you have an old computer laying around somewhere you might be able to pull a nice heatsink out of it if you want to.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

Anyway, I can't imagine ever using a log without a variable PSU again now to be honest

i came to that same conclusionto after using a PWM controller on my fixed resistance cube 3 years ago.

the other thing a temp display provides is verification the vape is performing properly and the lack of vapor is due to poor herb quality and not a temp sensor out of place -- it resolves a lot of questions.

 

[u bwade wunner]

thats really useful OTH.I agree with the new hi performance open airpath logs .It takes the vape to a whole new level.Have yet to play with digital temps so the next few days will be interesting indeed.

I feel reassured looking at the readout. Im where I should be.although it would be nice to cut off the temp above 15v i think.the unit im using goes to 17v which is too hot i guess even for concentrates.

good to know with a little modification the simple $15 tattoo psu will work out .its a shame they dont come off the shelf without the foot pedal socket.Would make it so much easier for everyone else who isn t tooled up.i will see how i go.any problems .I will be looking at a unit like yours.

when i receive the replacement tattoo psu in the mail, Ill pop a post on here if its ok and include a couple of pics to describe to readers what needs doing, bypassing the foot pedal switch,adding the heatsink to the reg etc.

the footpedal cables are $3 dollars on ebay and they should make great log cables.i have one on order.Im hoping to cut the footswitch off and solder a 5.5/2.1 plug on there and its done. its an inexpensive way to make the power lead from your e psu to your e log.

 

[hazy]

It might be better to get something like this instead of the foot pedal one. They're a little cheaper and you don't need to create as much waste (unless you've got an alternative use for foot pedals).

 

[u bwade wunner]

why do i think of back to the future when you mention foot pedals.

I have had the digital psu running for six hours now and its right on the button.I will though be putting a piece of granite under the base of it.so much heat at 12v .i just need to cut a niece piece from leftovers from the kitchen install.slide the piece under the psu and It should provide adequate insulation for the heat.safety first

 

[hazy]

Good idea to use the granite. Mine has rubber feet on it which I think is enough to keep it away from cooking anything. The regulator gets hotter the lower the voltage it is set to. The regulator initially gets fed with say 20V, so if it is set to 15V, it has to 'get rid' of 5V. If you set it to 12V then it needs to get rid of 8V, etc. If you turn it down to its minimum voltage then it will get really hot.