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  1. khelek41girl

    khelek41girl Nerd girl

    Messages:
    35
    Hey guys, sorry I haven't been active on here lately. I'm on vacation with my kids who I haven't seen in 3 years, so I'm giving them all my attention and focus. I should be home Easter Sunday, so after that, I'll be able to spend some time looking at the designs and giving my opinion on them. I just wanted to pop in and update you all so you didn't think I had disappeared on you.
     
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  2. RastaBuddhaTao

    RastaBuddhaTao Well-Known Member Manufacturer

    Messages:
    928
    Hey thanks for spending time talking shop. The challenge with glass is that it is an insulator so you loose the ability to be On-Demand to some degree. The heater has to be encased in the glass which is a manufacturing challenge and then the heat-up and cool down time suffers. This is evidenced in the use of a banger in that it is heated to temp and then the concentrate is applied to the hot surface. If glass is used on demand... it takes time to heat up... and after the draw is remains hot and then the vaporization continues which can be wasteful. Glass is more of a session material where metal is more on demand. RBT has some competitive units under test to see how the tech acts and how it can be applied. The Seed could be made in the future to have a glass bucket that could be used to bang off of ... just need a down spout off the water piece that is directly over the Seed (like and exhaust hood). Food for thought in future developments but out of scope for this project.

    Any and all feedback is welcomed as these conversations help mold the Seed to be the product you all want them to be. As of now the priority is on getting Mi3 into production but soon the seed will planted.

    Attention Beta Testers: Given that the new design of the heater is similar in performance to the ones you have the next heater will wait for the ceramic bucket as it could potentially change the dynamic of the device. The plan is to have the heater formed such that is "floats" above the surface of the ceramic as to not rob heat. The bucket will give spatter protection as well as make the heater more stable when applying concentrated mint and lavender :) I expect this will be 4-6 weeks.

    @khelek41girl so nice to hear you had some time with the kids. I am in the process of mending fences with mine and this gives me hope.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2019
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  3. khelek41girl

    khelek41girl Nerd girl

    Messages:
    35
    Hey everyone!
    @RastaBuddhaTao Thank you! I had an amazing time with my kids! The vacation went really well. Spending time with my kids meant the world to me. It was very much needed.

    The Seed looks pretty awesome! I think removing the need for a glass mouthpiece will go a long ways in terms of durability, stealth, and portability. The heater/bucket design allows for bigger dabs which is great if you want to load it up for on the go low temp hits. I would just want to make sure that the heating coil is seated tightly into the bucket to get all the goodies that may potentially drip through the mesh. That'll reduce mess and cleanup. Waste not want not! ;-)

    Now, it looks like the internal body/mouthpiece (all one piece?) is metal? Will that allow for faster cool down times? That's smart. I'm glad we are going to be keeping the wooden external sleeve. I think that keeps it looking classy and keeps the fingers cool if you have to open things up when its still hot. Not to mention, that allows for the community to get creative and possibly make their own custom wood sleeves out of various woods/materials, which adds some personal attachment to the device in general. If you want someone to love something, you let them personalize it and make it their own. Then that seed can "grow" to be one of their favorites :-p

    IMO, I would try to thread the metal body onto the heater base instead of using O-rings to hold it. That would secure the body and keep it safe from falls and drops. Then, maybe you can have the heater accessible from the top using a wide open chuff where you can take your tool and stick the dab right in, access the heater, and melt in your dab. Just a thought for accessibility and durability. You want it to be as completely contained and durable as possible while still providing ease of use. That is of course just my 2 cents. I've spent the last 7 years in the ecig industry working with RDA's, building coils, and dripping ejuice, and what I've learned is that convenience and quick refilling/loading is key when on the go. In the evolution of the RDA, I've watched the mouthpiece grow wider with a larger opening so that you could take your ejuice and drip it right in and on top of the coil rather than having to open everything up, get your fingers sticky, and make a mess. That was a game changer for everyone and now almost all RDA's use the larger chuffs to allow for dripping. To have that kind of access for dabs would be amazing.
    Anyways, just wanted to provide some design ideas that might help with convenience and on the go accessibility, based on the evolution of a similar market.

    Hope all is well with everyone and have a wonderful day!
     
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  4. Vaped2Space

    Vaped2Space New Member

    Messages:
    5
    I really like the new heater concept. It should fix the issues I have with my heater. I also really like the new body concept, especially the non glass mouthpiece. You really seem to be going in the right direction.
     
    AJS likes this.
  5. RastaBuddhaTao

    RastaBuddhaTao Well-Known Member Manufacturer

    Messages:
    928
    @khelek41girl I agree that the fit of the heater is important in many ways.... it is potentially the downfall of the design. Sometimes things look great in CAD and are a disaster in real life lol. The heater will need to fit tight in order to keep the T-bucket seated so that when you apply a dab it is solid and doesn't "wiggle" too much. Then, as you pointed out it needs to bottom out and touch the bottom of the T-bucket. This will put the heater in any dab that pools in the bottom but initial test show that the SS wick does not seem to let much of any seep through. The first step in the development is to get ceramic and/or quartz buckets made along with the latest heater design that you just received. Once the bucket is made the heater can be tweaked to improve the fitment and I have a good feeling that it will work our well. The plan is to use a threaded connection as it allows the split line to be moved up and minimizes the connection length. Might need an o-ring but probably not as it does not need to be sealed and the wood could possibly be used as a "seal" ... would be good if the wood sleeve could be swapped out in the field ... match your vape to your get up lmao. The top will have a glass drip tip (see below) to make a nicer surface for you lips and to add some cooling (SS might get hot) It would be hard to get a dab through the hole down into the bucket but you could drip THC oil ;)

    Thanks @Vaped2Space ... Yeh the glass wood interface has it's issues and with the low power and draw times for conduction concentrates metal should be a viable solution but the prototypes will tell the true tale as we know many vapes have suffered from the hot metal mouthpiece issue lol.


    I asked for input from the manufacturer for implementing variable inlet air. I am not sure that the complexity warrants the value but my hunch is if it is an simple and reliable option it would be worth it... thoughts? Also asked about the best way to attach the sleeve to the base and personally think that a simple threaded connection makes the most sense. Given that the seed has a rounded form the variable inlet air piece is best done at the threaded connection and it is most cylindrical there. I was initially thinking bottom flow but I think it would be ok to bring the flow in at the threaded connection. It could make the base metal hot but most likely not at the low wattage and short draw time. On top the plan is add a glass tip for the lip lol... Thinking of just using a standard drip tip as that will allow folks to have a good way to personalize their Seed with a standard part. Then have a 14 mm adapter as well. If the sleeve was made longer then integrated cooling could be added... like an aluminum heat sink? or plated treacherous path.

    Over the next few weeks I will be evaluating and implementing feedback from this forum. Hopefully in 2-3 weeks the CAD models will be firming up based on the early input and the final tweaks. Speak now or forever hold your piece :)
     
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  6. RastaBuddhaTao

    RastaBuddhaTao Well-Known Member Manufacturer

    Messages:
    928
    So I made a few proto glass "buckets". A flat piece of glass a bit wider than the heater was formed into a V. It is basically the triangular bucket shown above but without the end walls. This was done to see if the glass (ceramic in production) would hinder vapor production or effect flavor given it's pretty big change to the thermodynamic system. I found that it takes a few more watts than before at low temperature but seems to smooth out the heat and make it more tolerant to higher wattage. This seems to allow for bigger, tastier more uniform hits at higher wattage and gives the device more range (span). Without the end walls there is some leakage from the bottom of the bucket. In the production design the side walls on the bucket will serve to keep the goods right up close to the heater. The heater is form fitting to the bucket walls other than a small 1 mm gap at the bottom. This is required as the heater needs to be slightly shorter than the bucket so that it keeps positive pressure on it to keep the bucket secure. A flat will be added to the bucket so that it can sit on the positive terminal for added stability. Three of the proto glass V heaters are being sent out to a few beta testers to get final validation prior to ordering the tool to make the ceramic bucket. @antispleen @IAmKrazy2 and @King0mm will be receiving the proto V heaters in the next few days. With quick feedback the final design can be finalized and tooling started. The design currently has a adjustable inlet roughed in. Hopefully is a week or so there will be some updated CAD models to share.
     
  7. antispleen

    antispleen Hyperborean Wanderer

    Messages:
    319
    Location:
    New England, USA
    Mailman dropped off this little beauty this morning, I will get to testing later on this evening but I just wanted to give you guys a preview
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  8. sickmanfraud

    sickmanfraud Well-Known Member

    Are these stems smoked glass XL8R's??
     
  9. antispleen

    antispleen Hyperborean Wanderer

    Messages:
    319
    Location:
    New England, USA
    Yep I got a set if smoked glass with this beta. Thank you Ryan!
    So i was very excited to test this sucker. I went out and got some concentrate specifically for this task. I struggled to get any real results yesterday and got frustrated and said it aside. I had to swap it on to a couple of different mods to find one that it was happy with, but it plays nice with the pico. I was having trouble yesterday because I was used to the mesh coil and low wattage didn't realize quite how high I'd have to go to get good results. About 40 watts has been my sweet spot. I'm getting really good flavor. I don't like the bit that is pulling up at the bottom of the v, I hate waste. But that's why I got the cheap stuff to test with. That is my only major gripe at this point. I haven't really overloaded it enough so it hasn't dripped out of the v yet, but I see the potential for that. The Little piece of Glass is able to slide out for cleaning.

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BxsoDkuHME_/?igshid=1uo2u8oir8js7

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BxsosX9nplw/?igshid=jgt1emwri53j


    Edit- I'm right at that age of being too old to not know how to use technology properly and being just old enough to know how to use it well enough to be dangerous. I did a stream with the seed on my Instagram story but I can't figure out how to share it here. But it's there. I do some dabs and whatnot.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2019
  10. IAmKrazy2

    IAmKrazy2 Darth Vapor

    Messages:
    2,823
    Location:
    Detroit
    I probably should start by saying to this point i have barely read but a few words on this thread. I didn't want to see other members opinions until i had at least started to formulate my own...

    Dear god. Tried this monster for the first time today, and the second, third, forth, fifth... Shit i lost count.

    I received a longer wider diameter cooling tube that can be attached via a m2m adaptor, in addition to the standard RBT cooling mouthpiece. The wider diameter provides zero resistance. It feels a bit like a free flowing nectar straw hit. Just smooth dab straight quick, smooth but with a ton of flavor still retained for those tasty dabbies. Thing is insane fun to rip a monster dab through

    Got to get back in and catch up on this thread eventually, but for now still experimenting. This feel like a winner.

    Edit. Skimmed the thread and now know i was one of few who got an updated heater. No issue here getting a good glow and seems durable when i tap it with the dab tool. Not seeing any issue currently outside of maybe dripage and issues inverting for use with a standard water tool. It could more easily be done with a "hydrotube style" where inverting would be a non issue or with use through a whip to glass adaptor if you wish to use a standard water tool.

    The ceramic dish seems awesome for drip concerns, love the concept of the mesh floating over the dish. Would the dish be removable? This could be difficult to implement but obviously would open up tons of possibilities too.

    Flavor seems to be really good so i like this monster cooling tube setup Ryan sent. Cools but preserves terps.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2019
    King0mm, Shit Snacks and Monk Debate like this.
  11. antispleen

    antispleen Hyperborean Wanderer

    Messages:
    319
    Location:
    New England, USA
    @IAmKrazy2 what wattage are you using? Which mod?
     
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  12. antispleen

    antispleen Hyperborean Wanderer

    Messages:
    319
    Location:
    New England, USA
    I've settled on 41 watts on my ehpro tube mod. I am pretty amazed at the flavor on this thing. I took out by quartz banger today for a bit, and the flavor is damn close to that. Not experienced much leakage at all. I was hesitant at first, but I think I am liking the changes
     
    Shit Snacks, King0mm and Monk Debate like this.
  13. IAmKrazy2

    IAmKrazy2 Darth Vapor

    Messages:
    2,823
    Location:
    Detroit
    Been floating between 38 and 52 thus far. No need to even be above 50 really. Taste seems pretty solid even at 50+, especially with a little button finese.

    So far i have only tried it on by Cuboid 150

    Edit. Today i have been at 44 and really like it.
     
  14. RastaBuddhaTao

    RastaBuddhaTao Well-Known Member Manufacturer

    Messages:
    928
    @antispleen and @IAmKrazy2 thanks for the testing on the crude prototype. Good to hear the only major effect of adding the glass is the heat loss from the heater. It seems like the glass wicking the heat from the heater provides a smoother more uniform and even heating. The ceramic bucket containing the dab will really tie this thing up into a nice little on-demand dab solution.

    RBT will be stopping at festivals across the country to educate on the benefits of vaporization in the coming months. Over the last 3 weeks all efforts have been to restore a 1964 27 foot airstream so new product development and other business functions have been on neglected. Luckily the RBT team has expanded to add our new Customer Care Concierge so this should improve the front end of the business and give me time to deign the bed into the floor... and the mounting for the 400 watts of solar on the roof... (follow along on IG - buddharastatao)

    All the and sketches are complete for the seed. It's really simple so that will help to make implementation quick... just need to find the time to spin the models. Only major change other than style changes is the addition of an adjustable air flow ring. Thanks to all who helped evolve the Sliver into the seed... now what to call the Sliver? lol.

    Hoping to have updated CAD models in a few weeks... most excited about the prospect of this
     
  15. RastaBuddhaTao

    RastaBuddhaTao Well-Known Member Manufacturer

    Messages:
    928
    Hey folks ... thanks for all the great feedback. Due to a slowdown in sales of standard product and slow growth (as it is) adding retailers RBT is dropping back and building out the last of the US Made units as the Mi3 elimination is a big hole in the biz plan this year. However, all engineering effort will be focused here as soon as possible as the Seed is believed to be the true gap fill for Mi3.

    Someone in the community was nice enough to reach out and suggest a coating that could be applied to the SS heater to improve the purity at high wattages... looks like it could be worth taking a look at. Other than that the CAD models above are near what the final will be so please give any feedback you might have... there are plans to add inlet air adjustment but what else would folks like to see in the Seed?
     
    Summer and Shit Snacks like this.
  16. little maggie

    little maggie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,631
    I'm not sure how to get one of these. Is there a list somewhere?
     
    buddingglasshead likes this.

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