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Tek QWET - reverse osmosis extraction

Discussion in 'Concentrates' started by AmberAlchemist, Jun 9, 2014.

  1. AmberAlchemist

    AmberAlchemist Member

    Messages:
    13
    Alright guys - I want to theorize on this a bit. Plus, I don't have enough advanced chemistry knowledge to know the specifics of how one would actually pull it off, aside from literally going the old fashioned "test it myself" route. So - with that said, here's my theory / question: Is it possible to extract the "essential oil" from an ethanol solution using a reverse osmosis filter?

    I was doing some research on my own, just looking for different techniques in the industry, and I happened to come across this patent: http://www.google.com/patents/US20120141644 . I know they aren't the same chemicals and stuff, but the technique itself sounds like something somewhat in the realm of replicatable, and considering the wide availability of reverse osmosis water filters on the market, it would be wonderful to be able to skip the QWET evap process after winterization, and just go straight to the essential oil extraction.

    Again, this is all just me theorizing, and I didn't see much discussion on the subject, so wanted to throw it out there and see what other people's thoughts were / if it was even possible.
     
    Mr. Gweilo 420 likes this.
  2. herbivore21

    herbivore21 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,250
    Depends man, I still haven't got to QWET because I am getting such incredible, crystal clear shatter from QWISO that I can't see the point in spending 8 times as much (no exaggeration) on ethanol which isn't even 100%.

    It is all down to whether the membrane used in the reverse osmosis setup is permeable to cannabinoids. I am pretty sure this could work quite well! Give it a shot!

    As for your complaints with evap. I have perfected an induction setup that so long as you get the wash time right, will result in rock hard lemon flavoured shatter of the colour pictured below every time. With QWISO. IN LESS THAN 2 HOURS INCLUDING EVERYTHING FROM THE WASH TO FULL EVAPORATION!

    It is more about the method than the solvent guys. I actually am finding now that QWET is completely impractical where I live. It is a more forgiving solvent, but it is infinitely more expensive here to get one's hands on, this is no help! Also, I can confirm that the resulting extract is completely purged without the use of a vac. Induction gives you dat even, low heat perfect to produce wax, shatter or crumble just by choosing different temperature settings/cook times on the induction cooktop (also thinning out your concentrate on an oil slick as much as humanly possible is crucial to make guaranteed crumble).

    Concentrates are so easy to make now, never worried about anything except making sure I don't spill anything lol

    [​IMG]
     
  3. kingtut106

    kingtut106 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    254
    Location:
    'MERICA
    @herbivore21 what kind of yields are you pulling on your first and second wash using iso
     
    Mr. Gweilo 420 likes this.
  4. AmberAlchemist

    AmberAlchemist Member

    Messages:
    13
    That's what I'm thinking too. Any guesses on what size membranes work best? I've been researching a few "membrane supply companies", am just trying to figure out the best way to even call them up to ask "hey, what membrane do I want to use to separate cannabinoids from a quick wash ethanol?"

    I made a still for under $10 with a mason jar with a hole cut in the top, a 25' piece of polyethylene tubing, a hole in a bottom of a cup (to hold ice/ice packs in), a funnel with the small end facing the cup and sealed with duct tape (acts like an "umbrella over the bottle to keep water from melting ice out), and a bucket with a handle to hold the bottle to recapture the alcohol as well as hold any water/ice draining out of the cup. This works wonderfully. I don't love the polyethylene tubing, but according to the spec sheets, it is safe with ethanol (and iso).


    I've been seeing other members saying the goal in using vacuum purges isn't just to purge, but also to keep temps as low as possible. I've read tons of arguments for both sides of the debate. Is there links to conclusive studies/documentation showing the benefit of lower temperature vs. higher temp purges and the final consistency of the product.


    lol - Yah, I learned my lesson the first time I used my aeropress - I was pushing way to hard, and then made it to a slick spot and slammed the plunger down and had everclear go EVERYWHERE all over the place. I just stood there staring, and blinking in amazement at the stupidity of what I'd just done / how much was wasted.
     
    Mr. Gweilo 420 likes this.
  5. herbivore21

    herbivore21 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,250
    First wash is 1.3g of crystal clear shatter from 1 oz of trim/shake (from very well cured high end THC Bomb buds). Second wash tends to be more like .7-1g 3rd and 4th tend to be 1g or so. Yes, I still get great dark shatter from a 4th run, which still gets you absolutely trousers on head stoned. :D

    You would need to filter the fluid down to something in the order of 25-50 microns. This should keep the kief itself out, whilst allowing the fluid to flow reasonably well. I would attempt 30 or 40 microns first. I am not sure completely of this, as I just use plain coffee filters.

    Remember, you don't need anything fancy! It is all in the method, doesn't matter how crude your tools are, but FFS get an induction cooker, there is no easier way to take care of the evap in a completely safe, energy efficient and majorly fast way!

    Also, vis-a-vis the talk about vacuum purges for slowing the process. Dude, I am saying this debate is moot. 2 hours of induction heating in the manner I described will get you full and comprehensive purge and rock hard shatter (seriously, I have a 2g marble of dark reclaim shatter which is as hard as a golf ball, made all of it in 3 hours and that was 3 small separate runs).

    As I have learned as a professional scientist, you need to ignore the beard stroking and pontification and focus on results. :)

    This shatter/crumble game is super, super easy. The reason people have such trouble with alcohol based extractions around here (especially QWISO) is because they don't understand the process they are doing and just listen to whatever gets repeated the most around here. Of course, this is naturally all we can do when we are not sure yet of what to do. I am here to say that I have the experience and the know how, and most importantly the results to tell you that you can get absolutely mind-bending rock hard crystal clear shatter without worrying about vacuuming, without worrying about long evaporation times and in the time it would take you to have a feature length film blaring in the background as so many people strangely seem to do. :)

    Remember, the debate/controversy is unimportant. There is no democracy when it comes to science. There are only supported and unsupported claims. :) If you find something that works, pat yourself on the back, take the time and learn the theory to understand why it works, then share it with your peers on this wonderful message board :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2014
  6. AmberAlchemist

    AmberAlchemist Member

    Messages:
    13
    It's funny you say that, because that's exactly the approach I've taken so far. My background is in the computer sciences as an engineer, so I know the old adage of "just test it yourself" all too well. I read Skunk Pharm's QWET extraction technique, and immediately cracked open an old composition book from science class I'd never got around to using, and see out with lofty goals to test everything. I wanted to test yields, taste, clarity, etc.. testing the different variables (frozen vs. not, soak times, etc..). The first thing I learned was just how hard it is to duplicate the same results twice, so I totally get what you're saying too about it all being about the technique and less so about the pontificating. This is what my first attempts at recording my results look like (there's also detailed notes for each test, this is just the overview)

    [​IMG]

    In this case specifically, I'm really just trying to save myself a bit of money by not having to buy a reverse osmosis filtration system and a bunch of different sized membranes to test if my theory is correct. I'm sure there's some way to calculate the actual size of the molecules in solution, I just don't have enough knowledge to do so and was hoping one of the geniuses here would guide me in the right direction.

    I can say I did just get my 10 micro screen yesterday, and ran some stuff through it that came out a beautiful golden amber. I'm still waiting to evap it (just ran out of time), but I imagine it by itself will yield great results.
     
    Quetzalcoatl and herbivore21 like this.
  7. MikeInMiami

    MikeInMiami Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    58
    Location:
    3-0-5
    @herbivore21 what kind of container are you using to evap on your induction cooker? Stainless steel? Cast iron?
     
  8. herbivore21

    herbivore21 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,250
    Quetzalcoatl likes this.
  9. MikeInMiami

    MikeInMiami Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    58
    Location:
    3-0-5
    :o:o:o:o
    What a brilliant idea, ceramic over SS...what will they think of next lol

    Any possible insight on your particular technique? Such as prep and wash time??
     

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