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Question: would using iso-propyl alcohol be a good idea to winterze bho without a vac purge?

Discussion in 'Concentrates' started by tepictoton, Apr 30, 2013.

  1. tepictoton

    tepictoton Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    885
    Location:
    a funny place called earth
    So the title sais it all.

    Seeing I have 'lost' my vacuum set-up, but I still had some flowers to work with, I went ahead and did the extraction. Slowly double boiled it till no more bubbles appeared, wipping it from time to time, keeping it al on a very low temp.

    End result for now looks damned fine if i may say so myself, but when heated it still sparkles a bit.
    [​IMG]
    I am willing to try and desolve it into iso-propyl in order to winterize it. So the thing I wanted to ask:

    Will this work to remove plant waxes and fats?

    Will this help in removing the butane, I once saw someone doing this with alcohol and it seemed to do the trick.

    And I can get alcohol (94%), so would that maybe be a better option then the iso? Don't know if one might be more 'harmful'then the other?

    Am asking about ISO because last time I winterized with (grain)alcohol i had a really hard time getting the alcohol back out.

    Any tips and or suggestions are welcome.
    Fully Melted likes this.
  2. z9

    z9 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    701
    It looks a little wet to me, maybe its just the picture though.

    Winterizing with ISO doesn't remove as much as grain alcohol will, this is due to the fact that grain alcohol is more polar than iso and will remove the waxes, fats, and stuff more efficiently. "Stuff", scientific I know. Don't whip your BHO next time, especially while its purging, it can trap butane and such. Your wax will degrade faster if you whip air and moisture into it. The butane will also evaporate better when your wax is spread thin in the dish.
    Some people don't like using iso but IMO as long as its properly purged there isn't much to worry about. 99% iso will purge faster than 190 proof alcohol and 91% iso because there's less water. There will be a slight decrease in loss due to winterization when using iso because it doesn't remove waxes and fats as efficiently. Dissolving in alcohol will help remove more of the butane since it evaporates at a much lower temperature than alcohol. My dish usually has alcohol in it prior to beginning my extraction to help purge the butane since I don't have a vacuum set up. But don't expect it to be as nice as vacuum purged BHO. Winterizing in ISO is better than nothing, but grain alcohol is better. I let my alcohol evap for at least 12 hours, never had trouble getting the alcohol out of the oil unless I scraped to early. In which case I just dissolve and purge again. You have to be very patient with alcohol; I prefer to let the alcohol purge overnight so I'm not constantly checking on it and messing with it.

    If you're familiar with qwiso extraction you'll understand how long it takes to evaporate. Don't rush it, it takes significantly longer than purging butane.
    Quetzalcoatl and Fully Melted like this.
  3. tepictoton

    tepictoton Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    885
    Location:
    a funny place called earth
    Hey thx for the input...

    yeah I know vac purging is better, but let's say it this way, some people in blue costumes showed up at my secret dungeon and for now i'm vacless lol

    ISO 99% is what I had, and so i decided to just use it. It's in the freezer now, will let it set maybe for 48hours to get the most out of it. If it is not much I might get a bottle of alcohol...

    It was actualy not wet at all, but very crumbly. Has been warm water purged for over two hours, and at a certain point went from oily to crumbly. I just folded it into one big pile.

    Will see how this works...If anybody has any tips for evaping the iso most efficiently without a vac set-up...any help is appreciated. For now i will try to find the biggest pyrex dish i can find and use that to evap in a day or two.

    I honestly had a hard time getting the grain alcohol out of the extract again last time, that is also why I want to see what happens if I use ISO...
    Fully Melted likes this.
  4. z9

    z9 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    701
    I don't vacuum purge my BHO, I've never had a reason to fool with it.
    I've had good luck purging iso, I double boil around 160F with an air purifier laying on top of my dish. I use an air purifier so that I'm not blowing dust and animal hair into the dish. Always seems to work good for me. The only reason I double boil is to remove the excess water in the dish.
    Fully Melted likes this.
  5. tepictoton

    tepictoton Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    885
    Location:
    a funny place called earth
    got an example of this air purifier, cause i am having hard time imagining what it looks like :ko:, specially how you would place it on your dish
    Fully Melted likes this.
  6. z9

    z9 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    701
    Shitty target air purifier, which is just a fancy term for a filtered fan. My heat sources changes, whatever I feel like doing at the time of the extraction. Sometimes I put my dish in a larger dish with hot water and change it every 20 minutes or so, other times I double boil (more like double heat) on a stove or griddle and use a thermometer to watch the temperature. I try to keep mine under 160F to make sure I don't lose any goodies in my oil/wax. If your water starts to boil it is WAY too damn hot.
    [​IMG]

    Edit: The steady flow of air purges the alcohol so much faster and since its filtered I don't blow any unwanted debris into my product. Only filtered air flows into the dish and the air pushing out the corners keeps anything from drifting into the dish during the longer purge.
    Fully Melted likes this.
  7. dannkk

    dannkk Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    293
    Pretty sure everyone says that before they try it...and after, they don't want to use anything that hasn't been vacuumed.
  8. z9

    z9 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    701
    There's a few people here that don't vacuum purge even though they have before. You're making assumptions. I don't have the money for a good vacuum set up and winterizing produces good results. I only make small batches and use minimal amounts of butane in my runs. I'm not wasting my time with a hand pump, maybe one day I can afford to make a legitimate vacuum set up. Until then, I'll stick to my tech. I've tried vacuum purged bho, I didn't think the quality was much better than what I make.

    Would you care to help the op now?
    Fully Melted likes this.
  9. dannkk

    dannkk Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    293
    No reason to answer his question twice. He probably does have easier access to a cheesecloth and fan, though.
  10. tepictoton

    tepictoton Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    885
    Location:
    a funny place called earth
    @dannkk: please read what i post first before comming here to state the obvious. You would have known then why I do not have a vac set-up for now. And there is no need to assume anything about what I have access to or not when again I explain my situation relly clearly...:2c:

    So i will repeat myself: In the name of gathering more knowledge about this specific way of working: I worked with what I had, seeing i have to work 'undercover' in this shitty country of ours, and am now just trying to win advice on how to proceed most wisely.

    But for those that might find themselves in the same spot as i do, this information might be helpful. So if someone has experience with this please share what you have learned from it. That is what this thread is about, not about vac purging and so on.
  11. VaporEyes

    VaporEyes Vaporization Aficionado Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    655
    Location:
    Virginia
    I had used 91% iso to winterize my first ever concentrate attempt(ABV). I know I'd done the initial extraction improperly(also 91% iso) so I didn't exactly have the best turnout. After winterization it looked much better though. I did not use, nor have access to, a vacuum purging system.
  12. tepictoton

    tepictoton Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    885
    Location:
    a funny place called earth
    thx VaporEyes,

    it's been in the freezer for over 24hours now, gonna check on it, but will probably let it sit for another 24hours.
  13. DabComa

    DabComa Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    228
    Location:
    NY
    Personally, when i run flowers of my own with butane, I do what some members here have suggested and put a small amount of 91 ISO in the pyrex before dumping the BHO in. Hot water bathing that with a little stirring makes a nice crumble consistency that burns very clean, as in not much residue, which is good for my 710 cartridge to prevent build up. Hope it helps.
    z9 likes this.
  14. tepictoton

    tepictoton Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    885
    Location:
    a funny place called earth
    Will remeber adding the iso next run. Would grain alcohol be better for this, mean, for adding into dish when spraying?

    anybody has an idea if teflon would react to isopropyl? Am asking because, seeing this is al one big experiment, I might try to filter the stuff over a teflon sheet as not to mess up another pirex dish lol (will have to make a garage sale soon just for the pile of pyrex dishes that is hanging round here:p)
    Puffers likes this.
  15. Puffers

    Puffers Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    966
    Location:
    Cali, Bay Area
    Iso would easier to evaporate. I don't think one is better then the other per se but some peple say they can taste the iso more then the ethanol. The idea is just to keep the butane in a more stable co solvent to facilitate purging the butane.
    z9 likes this.
  16. DabComa

    DabComa Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    228
    Location:
    NY
    I dont know how you could possibly be messing up a pyrex dish, that seems impossible if its legitimate pyrex. After scraping I can get the pyrex as clean as the day i bought it with a little ISO soak and cleaning.
  17. tepictoton

    tepictoton Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    885
    Location:
    a funny place called earth
    @Dabcoma: do not take everything literally ;)
  18. DabComa

    DabComa Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    228
    Location:
    NY
    Haha I thought you were serious i was a little concerned :huh:
    tepictoton likes this.
  19. tepictoton

    tepictoton Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    885
    Location:
    a funny place called earth
    been evaping for two days now, tried a little yesterday and already seemed fully done evaping but just for safety leaving it in till this evening...

    looks def more yellowish/golden then my previous runs where I applied a lot of heat and pressure and the oil turned darker amber...
  20. tepictoton

    tepictoton Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    885
    Location:
    a funny place called earth
    It went very well I must say.

    Fater a few days of evaping I was left with a very yellow oil. Taste is superb in comparison to previous runs where I did use a lot more heat.

    Thanks for all the help, going to do next run this weekend with trying the grain alcohol straigth into my teflon and then spraying onto it.

    Say I am doing a small run, using two cans of butane, ow much alcohol should I put in my teflon? Any ideas? I guess as little as possible, but I guess it must also be sufficient to get the process going of getting the butane out.

    So while using 600ml of butane, and bout 50g of material how much alcohol should I use?
    Roger D likes this.
  21. DabComa

    DabComa Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    228
    Location:
    NY
    Personally, I normally put a little more then enough to cover the bottom of my 4x8? pyrex before a run. Which is obviously less then what your looking at running, so maybe that helps some lol? I find it easier to get my hands on 91% ISO so in my case i keep in mind that 9% water either winds up in the end product, or hopefully evaporates, but the less water put in to begin with the better the better off you'll be.
  22. Tsmit19420

    Tsmit19420 New Member

    Messages:
    2
    ISO alcohol has polarity of around 3. butane haxane pentane all around 0-1. ethanol has a polarity around 5 and water is completely polar at 10 so it can be said that with a mixture of iso and water a polarity similar to ethanol can be ahcieved like 70 percent iso. in canada we dont have access to 95% grain alcohol but with the right size molecular sieve u can acheive pure 99 % alcohol even from vodka, of course that takes some knowledge of zeolites and high pressure pumps. theres also a dental supply company called maxill and they sell 95% ethanol with 5% iso so it can be classified as non consumable. it can be bought online in canada and usually arives in 2 or 3 days
    Buildozer likes this.
  23. Buildozer

    Buildozer Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,196
    Location:
    S. California
    I just learned about molecular sieve a week or so ago, but my lazy stoner ass has been too lazy to look into it.. It seems useful for us, from what I could tell.. Is it easy enough to do?? I'll look into it eventually..

    Welcome to FC BTW @Tsmit19420!
  24. 93gc40

    93gc40 New Member

    Messages:
    10
    I would NEVER get teflon anywhere near my oil. Especially when solvents are involved. Whats so hard about cleaning perex?? ISO on a cottonball, rub, run under HOT water, sparkling clean.

    Grain alcohol (ethanol) will help remove more waxes and such, if filtered, and IMO give better flavor than ISO. Iso down to about 80% will evaporate faster fatser than ethanol. A small amount of alcohol will speed and more fully purge the butane.

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