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pure CBD extraction

Discussion in 'Concentrates' started by dannite, Mar 12, 2012.

  1. dannite

    dannite Durden's Own

    Messages:
    64
    Location:
    Nor Cal
    I have a friend who suffers from fibromyalgia and has asked my help n using cannabis to treat it. High CBD bud is obviously the place to start, and has been marginally successful, but high CBD is still pretty low CBD and she ends up getting only slight relief before too much of a high sets in for her to be useful in daily life.

    So I am looking into extracting pure CBD. The literature says is boils at ~185C and THC boils 20 degrees or so below that, so I should be able to distill out the CBD with precise temperature controls. Has anyone heard of doing this or have some tips for how to make it work?

    Also, looking for advise on using CBD orally. Normally when you make edibles you want to heat them so you get the THC conversion, but in this case do I want to keep it cold to keep the CBD intact?
     
    GottaLoveGreenzz likes this.
  2. Egzoset

    Egzoset 1SipAToke/Blender Vaporist (v3.1)

    Messages:
    2,874
    Location:
    Shawinigan/Qc, Canada
    Salutations Dannit,

    I've commented about a seamingly similar situation in this thread below:


    Here are the 1:1 strains i've been able to identify so far. They appear by order of potency in this brief sorted list, starting with the (allegedly) strongest one on top:


    Please take note that the MCU Alaskan Thunder Fuck may happen to be known under other names such as Manatuska Thunder Fuck or Matanuska Tundra. It would sure be nice to get some more information about that aspect of it.

    [​IMG]

    My opinion is that the only way to get safe-to-ingest non-decarboxylated cannabis would be to grow it at home, which is the only method garanteeing there were no contaminants added (by accident or otherwise!), IMHO... The good news is one doesn't need to wait until the flowering stage is done to harvest (as the leaves are said to contain a fair amount of cannabidiol). This means no heavy "lab-style" equipment would be required for the vegetative phase alone: large 4100 °K CFL lamps will do fine, especially if the light is distributed evenly around the plants while being located about 3 to 6 inches from them.

    Most unfortunately i imagine that's quite likely to translate into another type of "lab-style" paraphernalia which i'd much prefer to avoid keeping at home, not to mention the amount of vegetal matter needed to make enough extract for the separation process.

    I'm thinking perhaps this sort of extraction method can be adapted to work with green leaves:


    Unfortunately, oral ingestion implies that the medicinal extract must be free of potentially harmful micro-organisms including mold. If there's a risk even such cold will fail to kill them all then i'd consider disolving the powder with pure alcohol, but... Since heating would contribute to "activation" (decarboxylation) then that should imply all of the alcohol present in the resulting goo would have to be evaporated first - VERY SLOWLY...

    My appologies, i'm not sure what options will be suitable to process the weed, actually: this is only meant to ignite better informed debates over this particular subject which i also happen to care about.

    Good luck to you and your friend, have a nice day!

    :peace:
     
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  3. smokum

    smokum I am who I am and your approval isn't needed!

    Messages:
    1,588
    Location:
    Canaduhh
  4. Trixman22

    Trixman22 Active Member

    Messages:
    8
    Interesting
     
  5. stroh

    stroh errl enthusiast

    Messages:
    596
    Location:
    Action Heights
    i think your best bet is to do your extractions on a CBD dominant strain, i do not think there is a way to selectively extract lone cannabinoids.
     
  6. Puffers

    Puffers Micro-Climate Mastermind

    Messages:
    1,026
    Location:
    Cali, Bay Area
    Juicing it raw could be beneficial but can take a lot of plants. Have you looked into cooking the stems and such into an oil https://www.greenpassion.org/index.php?/topic/24378-chipped-stems-made-into-oil-by-sushicat/ that's what I am considering doing. I know Rick Simpson oil is also really good for what your talking about but it can take a lot of flowers too. You can also check out green passion on Rick Simpson info if you have never heard of it before they have compiled a considerable amount of info for compassionate uses of cannabis some not commonly known too like root ointments that uses the plants alkaloids for topical pain relief or Holy Annointing Oil with a recipe that was supposedly used by Jesus and his disciples that included something along the line of 6 pounds of cannabis flowers, myrrh, etc. Anyway I hope some of it will will help you or your friend. Good luck if I can help at all man hit me up
    Puff

    Edit: I also see your located in Nor Cal I have heard some clubs carry high CBD tinctures that you might be able to try, I dont know how effective they are though, harbor side in Oakland carried them for a while, but I don't frequent the area any me so I don't know if it's stil available there either.
     
  7. Puffers

    Puffers Micro-Climate Mastermind

    Messages:
    1,026
    Location:
    Cali, Bay Area
    I spoke to a fellow that works for a cannabis testing laboratory in Santa Cruz that has a machine that extracts the different constituents of the plant into separate vials, I don't know if it's a fractional distillation of some sort or what. From what I understand it possible but I dunno if this is something you can viably duplicate in your home.
     
  8. stroh

    stroh errl enthusiast

    Messages:
    596
    Location:
    Action Heights
    you would need some pretty expensive and fancy equipment to pull that off, considering THC, CBD, CBN, and all the other phytocannabinoids located in the head of the trichome are nonpolar substances, and i would imagine quite hard to separate without the help of laboratory equipment.
     
  9. Abysmal Vapor

    Abysmal Vapor Shaman of The Pyramid of Orlin'Malah

    Messages:
    2,178
    Location:
    7th heaven - 666th pit
    If you do a bit longer soak in Ethanol or ISO. And then winterize the process or do a qucker wash of the extacted.. My idea is to dissolve the THC and washes it away leaving the most of cannabinoids and the rest of stuff..
    You can try and extract that..
    Another thing i've heard is that THC is degrading into cannabinoids when exposed to heat. I feel also that heat pressed hash is way different then straight fresh kief.. more stoney IMO. Also when i overpurge oil it usually gets darker like my abv oil..,this could be an evidence of the heat degradation..
    Anyway i can't support my imagination with any true facts and data atm.. :) . But my main ideas are..
    A -Doing long soak ,try extract THC only or at most.. and then extract the CBD from rest.
    B Try to degrade THC into lower cannabinoids with heat..
    C.Try extracting leaf material and other plant matter than bud... I think it might have better THC/CBD ballance for the purpose.. although i don't know what would yield and if would worth the solvents.. Better try juicing raw cannabis or vaping leaf mass.. Although again i have no scientific evidence or medical data on the subject .. .
    Just thoughts based on my knowledge gathered browsing the network.. from untrusty sources :)
     
  10. Cole420

    Cole420 Combustion Hater

    Messages:
    34
    Location:
    Canada
    Hmm, the only way I can see an extraction of specific cannabinoids, would be by moderating temperature. By extracting all cannabinoids found in temperatures below the CBD threshold by heating it up just below the temperature CBD is extracted, you can get rid of those chemicals (maybe keep em in a bag if you have a volcano), then heat the same bud up to the maximum temperature CBD is extracted at, and inhale that vapor. I believe THC among others are released at lower temps than CBD is, so by taking out all of the lower temperature cannabinoids for the herb below CBD, you can then re-heat at bit higher temp, and get just CBD.

    Here is a page on boiling points of cannabinoids if you're interested.
    http://www.stonerforums.com/lounge/...specific-boiling-point-role-cannabinoids.html
     
  11. SD_haze

    SD_haze MMJ Vaporist

    Messages:
    3,222
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    I thought the benefits of CBD come from the ratio of CBD:THC, and consuming pure CBD is not ideal for the full spectrum of its benefits.

    Just like extracting ONLY thc isn't very useful (marinol), the cannabinoids do work together to a degree.
     
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  12. Puffers

    Puffers Micro-Climate Mastermind

    Messages:
    1,026
    Location:
    Cali, Bay Area
    I believe this is true to a certain extent but most of the benefits from the cannabis plant come from the dozens of cannabinoids and how they interact with our bodies various endocannbiod receptors activating different healing processes throughout the body. While I feel that THC potentiates and helps the CBDs effect within your body. I feel more pain relief when I vape a fresh bowl then just vaping the last of a ssv wand from a unfinished previous session. IMO this is because thc potentiates and adds it's own amount of pain relief even though most studies say the majoritiy of cannabis pain analgesia comes from the CBD receptors. When looking to fully utilize the benefits of the CBDs the amount of thc you would intake for it, easily becomes incapacitating for a lot of people. They get way too high or take it at night and wake up to take a leak, disoriented and super lit it can be very unpleasant and even scare people. so while thc does compliment CBD in a beneficial way IMO when prepared lots of ways it can be too much for some people. An oral hash oil made with a high CBD strain would probally be a great way to go.

    Very interesting ideas from abysmal vapor I have thought of similar things about heat and cannabinoid degradation my only concern was that it might favor one cannabinoid profile too much like cbn. I have used long soaks on stems and leaves for topical iso rubs (good for muscular pain btw) but never thought of trying to winterize it after a long soak...... I have also pondered on extracting from various strain profiles and combining them for certain ratios. I wish I had both the time and space to do such a thing right now.
     
  13. onigiri1692

    onigiri1692 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    92
    I found an interesting PDF that I believe you will find usefull titled "Fractioning The Phytocannaboids By Their Vaporization Points." The most intersting thing I got from the article is that the US Government (Yes the US Government) owns a patent on CBD. WTF is wrong with our government...here is the abstract to the US government's patent which I will link to at the bottom of my post:

    "Cannabinoids have been found to have antioxidant properties, unrelated to NMDA receptor antagonism. This new found property makes cannabinoids useful in the treatment and prophylaxis of wide variety of oxidation associated diseases, such as ischemic, age-related, inflammatory and autoimmune diseases. The cannabinoids are found to have particular application as neuroprotectants, for example in limiting neurological damage following ischemic insults, such as stroke and trauma, or in the treatment of neurodegenerative diseases, such as Alzheimer's disease, Parkinson's disease and HIV dementia. Nonpsychoactive cannabinoids, such as cannabidoil, are particularly advantageous to use because they avoid toxicity that is encountered with psychoactive cannabinoids at high doses useful in the method of the present invention. A particular disclosed class of cannabinoids useful as neuroprotective antioxidants is formula (I) wherein the R group is independently selected from the group consisting of H, CH.sub.3, and COCH.sub.3. ##STR1##"

    I am so mad just reading this...but I digress back to the topic, here is the contents of the PDF I found:

    ACCESSING 0.5 to 2.0 GRAMS CBD
    FRACTIONATING THE PHYTOCANNABINOIDS BY THEIR VAPORIZATION POINTS
    Patients can use heat to fractionate or separate the active ingredients in cannabis by their vaporization or boiling points. In particular for those patients that need relief from pain, inflammation, muscle spasm and or anxiety during the daytime CBD or Cannabidiol is a non-psychoactive cannabinoid that once separated from THC.CBD is a uniquely potent antioxidant that can cross the blood-brain barrier in addition to CBD’s ability to reduce anxiety, pain and inflammation outside the CNS (Central Nervous System). Interestingly, CBD is claimed in
    United States Patent 6,630,507, which notably has been assigned to the United States of America Dept of Health and Human Services. In particular note the definitions of Oxidative Associated Diseases for which CBD is ideally suited. Once convinced of the utility of this non-psychoactive phyto-cannabinoid, the challenge is how to extract it from cannabis. Of the strains in this county Northern Lights has the highest CBD concentration at
    1.0%. Since a pound of cannabis weighs 454 grams, there is 4.5 grams of CBD available. Another strain, White Russian has 2.0% CBD. White Russian is reportedly sensitive to mold but if compatible with your environment, it would be a 100% improvement in CBD concentration. While some might raise their eyebrows at the low amount of CBD present per pound of cannabis, it is important to know that there is 10 to 100 times more CBD
    per pound of cannabis than Vit C per pound of fresh oranges, for oranges 3 months old it would require 20 to 200 times as much raw material to produce an equivalent 500 mg daily dose.

    An article in The Journal of Autoimmunity showed that at particular mouse strain that develops diabetes 86% of the time and is the animal model on which oral and injectable anti-diabetic medications are tested, when given 5mg/kg body weight per day, 60% DID NOT GO ON TO DEVELOP DIABETES. This would have to be the greatest demonstration of an ‘ounce’ of prevention is worth a pound of cure. There was poster presented at the International Cannabinoid Research Society meeting this last summer that used a dose of 10 mg/ kg which
    would be equivalent to 1,000 mg / day for 190 pound patient.

    Specifically, since Delta 9 THC vaporizes at 157 degrees centigrade and CBD vaporizes at 188 degrees centigrade, this difference can be used to separate these components. Given the predominance of THC (94% of all cannabinoids present) it is necessary to lower the THC content before collecting the CBD or the level of intoxication is so prohibitive as to prevent access to an adequate amount of CBD. The most efficient approach is to use a variable temperature heat gun. This can be calibrated the heat gun to 166 degree centigrade with the
    Fluke Digital Thermometer available in the waiting room. At this temperature THC is converted into a vapor and removed. Now you have pre-heated low THC cannabis which can be placed in a collection vaporizer such as a Volcano set at the 6 position or if you have a digital at 190 degrees centigrade to convert CBD from a liquid to a vapor. If there is too much residual THC effect you can raise the preheat temperature to 176 degrees centigrade because a few strains do have some Delta 8 THC, which vaporizes at 175 degrees compared to Delta
    9, which vaporizes at 157 degrees centigrade. Please note that I carry a Fluke digital thermometer with which you can calibrate your variable temperature heat gun.

    Alternatively the high CBD cannabis created by stripping out the THC can be used by any means if you do have access to a collecting vaporizer. The amount of THC removed is a function of how finely the cannabis was ground to increase the surface area and how long it is heated. It requires a shift in thinking in that there can be powerful medical benefits without the familiar THC effect, for many older patients this can be comforting information. Once again to develop an appreciation for the breadth of medical utility attributed to CBD please
    review the patent currently held by the United States a copy of which is available at www.LeavesOf Grass.info.



    Anyways hope this helps here are the links I promised:

    US Government Patent for CBD: http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=6630507.PN.&OS=PN/6630507&RS=PN/6630507

    PDF File on CDB Extraction: http://cannabisinternational.org/info/Fractionating-Cannabinoids.pdf


    PS. I am so fucking mad right now, how can the US government hold a patent which acknowledges all the medicinal benefits of marijuana yet still consider it a schedule 1 drug with no medicinal benefits...makes no sense unless they hold the patent simply to prevent research into a wonderful plant.
     
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  14. Icculus Forbin

    Icculus Forbin Member

    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    SoDak
    Interesting discussion, I think that your best bet might be to make abv edibles.
    Here is my understanding, THC boils at 157C, but will melt at lower temps. For example if you vaped at 150C you would not get all of the thc, or as good of a % of the THC available as 157C or higher. Same with CBD. It will melt at lower temps and get into vapor, but not very rapidly or very well. So if you vaped at a lower temp then the THC would melt or boil out at a faster rate than the CBD which boils around 180C. You would also get a better ratio of CBN : THC. I don't know if this is correct but it makes sort of makes sense to me so I thought I would throw it out there.

    http://www.godmed.com/data/handouts/Phytocannabinoids.pdf
     
    havealight101 likes this.
  15. RingOfSmoke

    RingOfSmoke Member

    Messages:
    3
    You seem to misunderstand what Marinol or Dronabinol is. It is NOT thc. Please understand that it is NOT NOT NOT ANYTHING that comes from this wonderful plant. It is a lab synthesized drug that has an ld-50 of like 3-4 pills (from personal experience, not actual knowledge). Weed has an ld-50 of 1,500 pounds within 15 minutes. The thing with marinol is that it is synthesized in a lab. They take the protons, nuetrons, electrons, and bond them together in the right structure so it is similar to THC, but what they can't do is work at a subatomic level, they can't synthetically add the quarks or leptons needed to make true thc.

    TL;DR
    Marinol is NOT THC
     
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  16. SD_haze

    SD_haze MMJ Vaporist

    Messages:
    3,222
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Just a little misunderstanding

    Well aware marinol is synthetic THC, but I definitely can see how what I wrote sounded like I was saying marinol was "extracted THC"

    What I meant was that it only contained one cannabinoid like substance and thats one of the reasons it is so worthless, the other being, like you nailed down, because it's synthetically made and simply isn't the same THC as found in nature.

    That being said, if you did extract pure THC directly from the plant with zero other cannabinoids, it would still not be a pleasant effect. Needs at least a little balance from the other cannabinoids (and that was my main point).

    :peace:
     
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  17. RingOfSmoke

    RingOfSmoke Member

    Messages:
    3
    Ok! Yes! I agree then. I've had to deal with a lot of people thinking marinol is awesome over in GC.
     
    SD_haze likes this.
  18. my name is erl

    my name is erl I know where your mama parks your house!

    Messages:
    42
    i saw a picture of some bubble hash that tested out to be 30%thc, but 10%cbd. the key is starting with a high cbd strain, and ot will show in your extraction
     
  19. proletariat

    proletariat Member

    Messages:
    9
    +rec for you smokum, that video is incredible. I had never heard of any of that.

    I am also a person who is interested in high CBD and lower THC medicine. this thread is great! I can't wait until I get this job(hopefully) and I can start medicating again. I am taking WAY to much asprin advil ect. I can just feel my organs that have to process it tense up. I think they look like Bruce Willis at the end of Die Hard at this point.
     
  20. FLskwat

    FLskwat VAPOLITICS!

    Messages:
    1,246
    Location:
    EU (FL towah)
    I had access to an extract called Venom in CA. It's a C02 extraction and it was tested around 65% of CBD!
    W_Very weird and interesting high in the Persei for a full week!
     
  21. FLskwat

    FLskwat VAPOLITICS!

    Messages:
    1,246
    Location:
    EU (FL towah)
    Sorry the edit option is gone on that previous post and my memory was really bad on those figures :doh: : here are the real figures of that CBD concentrate!
    MY BAD!
     
  22. proletariat

    proletariat Member

    Messages:
    9
    It has not been mention yet but harlequin is a great high CBD low THC strain. the place around here has it tested at 13 16 CBD depending when you go in, and 3 percent THC. cant wait to give it a try. hope that helps!
     
  23. Puffers

    Puffers Micro-Climate Mastermind

    Messages:
    1,026
    Location:
    Cali, Bay Area
    I have some of this it works well for me. mines tested at 5% Thc and 15% cbd. I feel the most relief when mixing with a bit of a higher thc strain
     
  24. peterchen

    peterchen Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    59
    how about you just take a high cbd strain, vape off thc at the appropriate temperature and then make an extraction (iso or whatever)
     
  25. StickyShisha

    StickyShisha Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,379
    while the THC is vaping off, the non-oil parts of the plant matter are changing in ways that make the extract taste like poo. There are ways to "clean it up", but not as effective as i would like.

    what about making an extract from a high CBD strain and THEN gently vape off its THC? Would the resulting oil be better than the poo tasting oil i got the other way?
     
    Egzoset likes this.

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