Quetzalcoatl
DEADY GUERRERO/DIRT COBAIN/GEORGE KUSH
Yeah I get the white stains when I clean my stuff. Like I said, white vinegar.
PBW & the Chemistry of Clean
- Thread starter t-dub
- Start date
Frederick McGuire
Aggressively Loungey
I had some white streaks when I first used Pbw.
I just gave it another pbw wash and they went away.
I figured it was just pbw residue that was there because I'd over-concentrated it...
So another pbw wash may help, or it could be hard water stains and vinegar would help.
I just gave it another pbw wash and they went away.
I figured it was just pbw residue that was there because I'd over-concentrated it...
So another pbw wash may help, or it could be hard water stains and vinegar would help.
aj0125
Well-Known Member
I don't think it is hard water because it was not there before the PBW wash. What dilution do you use it at for cleaning glass? I tbsp to 4 cups of water is about what I used, maybe that was too concentrated? Because it looks like PBW residue but nothing will get it off. I will try a more diluted PBW wash later to see if that helps. I'm just not sure how to get the streaks off the outside of the glass.
ataxian
PALE BLUE DOT
I need some!I love clean glass. Not just for aesthetic reasons, for me its a serious health issue as well. So when I began on my vape journey I knew cleanliness was going to be an issue of intense study, and so it has. I am not here to blast the ISO/salt method, I call it the "Shake & Break" method, since I feel its responsible for more broken glass than just about anything. But it is still relatively easy and effective, just not perfect, not even close.
The interesting thing is, if we understand the cleaning cycle, and the chemistry of clean, we can design a system that eliminates this hazard and others, and does a better job overall. Another thing I dislike about liquid chemical solutions is that they tend to be expensive, bulky, hard to store and transport, and usually have a negative environmental impact.
I started to dream . . . a list of requirements began to emerge . . .
Luckily a research chemist, who is also a home brewer, had a similar dream to mine a few years ago. His paper on "Cleaning Essentials" is a brief but excellent read on the subject, I highly recommend it. Its amazing how much of what I do in my lab with cannabis comes back to pool & spa chemistry and the chemistry of beer & wine making. A well-known graphic in the cleaning industry that is used to describe the major players involved in cleaning a surface is shown in the figure below. It uses a pie-chart to represent each portion of an optimized cleaning system. The pie-chart is important because it shows that each time one of the aspects is changed, the others must be altered to compensate for that. If the water is hotter, you don’t have to use as much mechanical action (elbow grease), and vice-versa. With the exception of Time, each component may be considered a type of energy. Mechanical Action is energy added to the system by scrubbing or spraying, Temperature is heat energy that is added to the system, and Chemical Action is energy added to the system through the use of a chemical cleanser. The click-able chart below shows how each of the components adjusts for each other and how increasing the amount of Chemical Action or Temperature may lower the need for Mechanical Action.
- Inexpensive compared to liquid chemicals and solvents
- A concentrated powder that mixes easily in your glass
- Easy to transport and store, low profile, common
- Good for the environment, biodegradable & relatively non-toxic
- Fantastic results with energy from hot water, no shaking, and modest dwell times
- Able to clean a fritted disc properly
- Easily available at local non "stoner" locations or Internet
- Works in hard water and gets rid of hard water stains
- Free rinsing leaving absolutely nothing but purity & clean behind, period
- Safe on stainless steel, polycarbonate, and other surfaces
So my goal was to optimize a cleaning system that eliminated, completely if possible, the blue section of the above graphic. We do this by maximizing the other areas of course. What is the solution? PBW (Powered Brewery Wash) is a combination of sodium metasilicate (TSP substitute), and an oxidizer (oxyclean) with a few surfactants (wetting agents) thrown in for good measure. Its these agents that differentiate it from its brother, Straight-A. I have yet to find something that this stuff can't clean, its amazing. I put some in my dishwasher and it removed 6 years of white weird filmy buildup that nothing else would touch.
So by using some tubing, rubber stoppers, bumper guards, hot water and this chemical, we have a quick, easy way to keep our glass clean. It limits hazards and washes safely and responsibly down the drain leaving nothing but purity and clean behind
This method also promotes an easily repeatable routine, an essential component of glass safety imho.
The video below is some test footage. The Zob you see has suffered 6 months (and twice as many ounces) of abuse at my hands during my RezBlock tests (future diffuser medium thread) The pics below show what happens when you ignore the manufacturers instructions and "push" the product beyonds its limits. The deposited layers of "filth" you see are biological contamination, vapor residue, salt, and god knows what else. It took 2 washes with about 15 minutes dwell time each to bring it back, although the second wash was just for the "ring" on the downstem. The label did fade slightly however, I dislike labels, and only kept this one so it could be destroyed in testing
Remember, if you pollute it, dilute it
More video next week will show the regular glass collection cleaning process
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Resources:
http://www.ecologiccleansers.com/essentials.php
http://www.ecologiccleansers.com/straight-a.php
http://www.ecologiccleansers.com/Straight-AMSDS.pdf
http://www.ecologiccleansers.com/StraightADataSheet.pdf
http://www.midwestsupplies.com/media/downloads/311/PBW Tech Sheet.pdf
http://www.midwestsupplies.com/media/downloads/312/PBW MSDS Sheet.pdf
http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/ht-flush-device.7263/#post-306512
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Quetzalcoatl
DEADY GUERRERO/DIRT COBAIN/GEORGE KUSH
PBW? At a homebrew store or online, should be $9-10 for a 1lb tub.
Quetzalcoatl
DEADY GUERRERO/DIRT COBAIN/GEORGE KUSH
You should, uh, throw your pieces away in my direction
ataxian
PALE BLUE DOT
I threw away my old glass pieces yesterday. Trash came today.You should, uh, throw your pieces away in my direction
I tried to clean my new glass however it did not sparkle. I was going to order new pieces when I need to try one more time before filling the trash before they come again. Next time you need to help me out here!
Getting some CHRONIC ORANGE tomorrow morning!
Blueberryyumyum
Well-Known Member
Also ordered 4lb of PBW going to try this to clean my glass and ELB's, iso is getting expensive...
Cheapest i could find in europe including shipping http://www.brouwmarkt.nl/five-star-pbw-18-kilo-p-5005055.html
There's nothing better then a sparkling glass waiting for you to fill it with vapor
Thanks to the OP for the info on PBW.
Cheapest i could find in europe including shipping http://www.brouwmarkt.nl/five-star-pbw-18-kilo-p-5005055.html
There's nothing better then a sparkling glass waiting for you to fill it with vapor
Thanks to the OP for the info on PBW.
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aj0125
Well-Known Member
So I have soaked my piece in vinegar for 2 days, used some CLR, done several PBW washes at different strengths, and I still cannot get some spots off of the inside or outside of my glass that appeared after that first PBW wash. I don't know what I am doing wrong I have re read this whole forum a few times and I see that a few people are having this problem with mixed results on solutions. Anyone have any other ideas? I really wish I would have just stuck with ISO...
Frederick McGuire
Aggressively Loungey
Have you tried using an abrasive agent like salt?
Maybe some ISO and rock salt?
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Is it possible that PBW is reacting with hard water to deposit some of these mineral stains if people are using hard water mixed with PBW for their washes?
I've had nothing but
results with PBW, but it seems the water in my area is (soft? - not hard water is what I'm getting at)
aj0125
Well-Known Member
I will try salt and ISO. I am not too sure how to go about getting the stains off of the outside of the glass on the base of the piece, maybe put iso and salt on a rag and scrub? Should I try a several day PBW soak? I know Tdub said hot and short is best but i have done those many times in a row with white spots still remaining. Maybe citric acid? Is that better than white vinegar?
Frederick McGuire
Aggressively Loungey
Well, if there are some stains on the outside, I'd personally try some of those scourers that are designed not to scratch non-stick cookware.
I only suggested salt as its an easily obtainable abrasive that's relatively easy to get in and out of a piece, there's nothing special about the salt itself.
If the scourer doesn't work on the outer spots, I doubt salt will help with the inside ones.
I'm not sure if citric acid would help, might need to wait for one of our more lab minded members to chime in on that one...
I think the active we are after in vinegar is muric acid?
Though I could be mistaken about that, it might be a nasty acid that can get into your bones... Be careful with acids lol.
You might need a harsher chemical like bleach or drain-o (I think drain-o is mostly hydrochloric acid? Again, careful with the stuff...) to get the spots out?
Def research before you go throwing anything like that into your glass though, don't want to use something that'll harm the glass.
Sorry I can't be of more help, maybe once you've gotten rid of the spots you can switch to a rezblock/cranberry extract & hot water flush regimen?
That should keep the glass pretty clean, and you'd lower the frequency of the need for an ISO wash.
Sorry I can't be of more direct help
I only suggested salt as its an easily obtainable abrasive that's relatively easy to get in and out of a piece, there's nothing special about the salt itself.
If the scourer doesn't work on the outer spots, I doubt salt will help with the inside ones.
I'm not sure if citric acid would help, might need to wait for one of our more lab minded members to chime in on that one...
I think the active we are after in vinegar is muric acid?
Though I could be mistaken about that, it might be a nasty acid that can get into your bones... Be careful with acids lol.
You might need a harsher chemical like bleach or drain-o (I think drain-o is mostly hydrochloric acid? Again, careful with the stuff...) to get the spots out?
Def research before you go throwing anything like that into your glass though, don't want to use something that'll harm the glass.
Sorry I can't be of more help, maybe once you've gotten rid of the spots you can switch to a rezblock/cranberry extract & hot water flush regimen?
That should keep the glass pretty clean, and you'd lower the frequency of the need for an ISO wash.
Sorry I can't be of more direct help
aj0125
Well-Known Member
Would a Mrclean magic eraser hurt the outside of the glass to try and get the spots off? At this point the outside ones bother me more for some reason. Thank you for the help you could provide. Once these spots come off (if they ever do) I am keeping this piece immaculately clean from now on, not that I ever let it get very dirty in the first place, before this incident my glass was all pretty crystal clear because of frequent cleaning.
Frederick McGuire
Aggressively Loungey
Just did a quick google, apparently a mr clean magic eraser Is essentially just an abrasive, so I'd say give it a shot.
I read its safe on glass, but maybe just try it out on a regular drinking cup first to make sure it won't scratch?
I read its safe on glass, but maybe just try it out on a regular drinking cup first to make sure it won't scratch?
Have you tried oxy clean? Ive not tried pbw but I do use oxyclean with hot water. I used toclean dirty combustion pipes that were clogged unusable from that to brand new with shaking ans letting it is in concentrated oxyclean water.... also note that if your not.... try n warm the glass by running hot water through it. Warm/hot glass always cleans easier in my experience at least.
aj0125
Well-Known Member
Tried oxyclean when I tried all the other stuff. The combination of all the things I tried seemed to get the spots off the inside but my glass is still covered with spots on the outside. I am going to buy a magic eraser tonight to see if that helps and I have citric acid coming from Amazon that I will try and soak the whole piece in if that doesn't work. Thanks for the input and keep the ideas coming guys I will destroy these spots and smudges if it is the last thing i do.
aj0125
Well-Known Member
In case anyone was wondering magic erasers did not work either. The citric acid came in the mail today so now to try that. Does anyone know if it is possible to make the solution of citric acid too strong that will hurt the glass of my DG? The rooster is 3/4 faded now from all of this so I am not concerned at all about logos, I just want clean glass.