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Pax 2

Discussion in 'Portable Vaporizers' started by pakalolo, Mar 9, 2015.

  1. jambandphan03

    jambandphan03 in flavor country

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    guess who just got in on the pre-order... :brow: hope it releases on time, that release projection date is just a couple day before my birthday!! STOKED to be joining in on this one. :D :D :D went for the black one this time, had blue for the first pax, always wanted the purple one, never got it LOL
     
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  2. Chill Dude

    Chill Dude Well-Known Member

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    That's awesome! Did you order on the Ploom website?
     
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  3. Crohnie

    Crohnie Crohn's Warrior

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    This looks sexy as hell! Glad to see all the improvements. When I owned the original Pax, my 2 main complaints were maintenance/cleaning and efficiency. They seem to have taken care of the first area, but the thing that made me sell my Pax was that it ate through my herb like there was no tomorrow. A real herb hog, IMO. It will be interesting to see what FC members' experience will be in that area.
     
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  4. jambandphan03

    jambandphan03 in flavor country

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    Yes both times I bought pax I went through the main pax website as to avoid any other issues with returns/replacement etc... they have excellent CS from my previous experiences, and usually an instant chat window to talk to somebody if it's business hours. Boy when VAS strikes, it hits hard and fast! LOL
     
  5. Chill Dude

    Chill Dude Well-Known Member

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    Thanks man... I just ordered through the Pax website. I went with the silver. It was a hard choice though because the teal like color looks really cool! Of course, black always wins in the stealth department. All of the colors have that high quality finish. They look amazing!

    I look forward to getting my Pax 2 early April and comparing notes with you guys!!
     
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  6. Legal in Washington State

    Legal in Washington State Member

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    I don't understand how the lip sensing heater works. If the oven heats up when it senses lips on the mouthpiece, how can it heat up in time for the hit? It seems the heating mostly would occur after the hit. So, all it's doing is raising and lowering the temp in between hits. This might be an improvement because it lowers the temperature while not in use, however, it would mean a lower temperature hit with intermittent use.
     
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  7. OnCloud8

    OnCloud8 Vapor Vixen

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    I am curious about this too, if true perhaps it would be useful to those who don't feel the pax goes low enough for it's first set temp?
     
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  8. Chill Dude

    Chill Dude Well-Known Member

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    That was a question I posted yesterday. @pakalolo was going to ask the Pax guys about exactly how the mouth sensor works and if it is actually able to ramp up to your preferred temp setting immediately upon starting your next draw. I'm sure Pakalolo will get back to the thread regarding this issue when he has time..
     
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  9. Michel

    Michel Well-Known Member

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    My girlfriend (constantly insulting my mighty because of its ugliness) experienced the first time VAS when I showed her the pax 2.0.... She wants one, now:love:! And normally she fucks vaporization and prefers to combust joints. Perhaps she finally will stop to combust with this beautiful thing!

    I assume I want one, too. Don't even care if it's better than one of my other vapes!
     
  10. pakalolo

    pakalolo RoboMod v4.0a (unstable) Staff Member

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    Since there is a Pax website where you can order a Pax 2, and I know they exist because I have one that came in a box, I just promoted this thread out of Candidates. I've been out most of the day conducting field testing, report to follow later.

    I have asked this question and few more, but I don't have answers yet. I know they're coming but I can't say when.

    After today's road use, I remain convinced that no matter how they do it, it works rather well. As far as I can tell, the heater responds much faster than you're assuming. There's no reason why it can't do this. The MFLB heats up in about 3 seconds, and the FlashVAPE heats up a much bigger heating screen in about five seconds. The difficulty, I think, is in controlling the heater precisely and reducing the thermal mass so that overruns can be minimized or even eliminated. The Pax engineers have developed a design and an algorithm that can do this. That's my guess, anyway. We'll find out when they give me an answer, which should be soon.
     
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  11. Shit Snacks

    Shit Snacks Milaana. Lana. LANA. LAANAAAAAA

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    Yeah no reason not to think they've come up with a new thing here, that's exactly what it sounds like and makes it much more worthy of its price tag and inevitable popularity (though still too much money for me I'm afraid).

    I wonder if it is measuring exact herb temp as well as oven wall temps? That would be really interesting smart feature to keep things efficient...
     
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  12. Michel

    Michel Well-Known Member

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    Ok wifey is serious, where can I preorder when living in EU?
     
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  13. pakalolo

    pakalolo RoboMod v4.0a (unstable) Staff Member

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    It's just my guess right now, and it's not so new. Our own @Hippie Dickie has been working on a similar algorithm for a while now. No lip-sensing, but he's got the other stuff dialed in.

    Here's how I see it. Like the Sublimator when it was new, or the Grasshopper that should come in a box real soon now, people are making a fuss over how the technology works. As soon as it becomes general knowledge that it really does work, only the hardcore FCers care how.

    By the way, I'd like to introduce everyone to @Ojan_at_PAX. He's a Customer Service rep from Pax and he'll answer some of your questions so I can spend more time Pax 2 testing. I say "some" because he can't answer any cannabis-specific questions, since it is still federally illegal after all. We should be joined shortly by an engineer, who should be able to enlighten us on that lip-sensing technology. I'll introduce him when he registers.

    Welcome aboard, Ojan!
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2015
  14. Marctraider

    Marctraider Member

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    I wonder how this one will compare with the old FF.
     
  15. jambandphan03

    jambandphan03 in flavor country

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    This may seema little behind now but I had not seen it posted yet.

    Click to play YouTube Video
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2015
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  16. pakalolo

    pakalolo RoboMod v4.0a (unstable) Staff Member

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    I'd like to introduce @scott_dunlap from the Pax team. I think he's one of the design engineers but looking though the emails I don't see anything that actually says that. He can correct me if I'm wrong. I want to welcome him with a couple of questions: how does the lip-sensing technology work, and what is the stand-by temperature when you don't have the Pax 2 held to your lips?

    I'm asking this partly because yesterday I improvised a connection to my Orbiter.

    [​IMG]
    This is a No-Goo silicone finger condom with the tip cut off. It works quite well with the flat mouthpiece as long as you make sure that it's not blocking the slit. It occurred to me afterwards that it would probably work better with the flared MP but I haven't tried that yet. Anyway, I was wondering how the heater behaves when used like this. Obviously the Pax 2 won't sense my lips but will the silicone somehow indicate that I'm hitting it? It seemed to maintain vapourizing heat as far as I could tell.

    For those of you eager for a water connection, this is a crude solution as long as the idea of using a silicone sleeve doesn't bother you. Since it never gets warm it doesn't concern me at all, but it is kind of fugly. I've asked Pax and there aren't any plans to introduce a WPA, but I have a sneaking suspicion that @Ratchett might be filling that gap in the future. ;)

    Yesterday's field test was interesting in a positive way but I still haven't finished writing it up. Real soon now.
     
  17. Chill Dude

    Chill Dude Well-Known Member

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    1,100
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    San Diego, Ca
    I was wondering what the purpose of the spacer is? Is that just when you want maximum performance for smaller loads or is the spacer needed all the time regardless of load size for optimum performance?

    Also, can you explain how the party mode works? I'm thinking party mode simply means flashing led lights and no automatic shut off.. Right?

    And, @pakalolo thanks for ruining the entire look of the Pax with that monstrosity of a mod you posted above. Lol...
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2015
  18. Shrike

    Shrike Flower Potted, Maxed & Carta'rized

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    ...ingenuity is not always pretty...:nod:
     
  19. jambandphan03

    jambandphan03 in flavor country

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    ...we just got a 3D printer in our house too ;) hmmmmmmmmm might have to figure out a water tool adapter. I was considering just trying some silicone tubing with either the flared mouthpiece in place, or possibly no mp at all while using it on glass at least at first...
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2015
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  20. Ojan_at_PAX

    Ojan_at_PAX Social Media Manager @ PAX Company Rep

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    Location:
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    Thanks for the introduction, @pakalolo!

    Super happy to be jumping in here. My team and I very regularly lurk FC and share your guys' comments internally. A ton of the feedback found here has gone into PAX 2 so thank you, thank you, thank you for such invaluable insight. As far as vaporization communities go, this is the one where I can expect to find enthusiastic, in-depth, and most importantly civil discussion. Props to the mods for all their hard work in making this happen.

    As @pakalolo mentioned our CMO (head marketing guy) Scott will likely pop in and out to help answer questions about our pride and joy, PAX 2. I will do my best to gather info directly from the relevant sources and relay all of it here until I can get my hands on my own device (yeah, paka beat me to it).

    Don't hesitate to ask any questions to myself or Scott directly, but we'll also be poking around to answer questions already asked.
     
  21. pakalolo

    pakalolo RoboMod v4.0a (unstable) Staff Member

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    I was trying to wait until I finish writing up yesterday, but since that keeps getting postponed...

    People used a spacer in the original Pax to compress the load and optimize vapour production. It helped maximize the contact area of the load. I never used one myself. I have not put a spacer in the Paz 2 and I see no reason to use one. Here's why.

    This morning I put in .03 g, less than half my normal load, with medium grind and no packing, as usual. The first two hits were at the lowest heat setting. (I'm using ~10 second hits, by the way.) With my normal .07 g, this setting gives visible but not thick vapour, but this time I got some flavour but no visible vapour. This is more or less what I expected, so I bumped it up to the second setting. Here I got reasonably thick and tasty vapour. After three more hits, I felt the production was dropping off (it's a tiny load after all) so I went to the next setting. Vapour production resumed and I took three more hits, then went to the highest setting. I got three more hits (still with decent thickness and flavour) and then dumped the load. It was a nice even medium brown and looked like I might have squeezed one or two more hits from it. I did shake the Pax 2 a couple of times but that was to check the battery level and not because I felt I needed to mix up the load. The conclusion I reached is that small loads work well, although vapour thickness is somewhat reduced.

    I am prepared to say that the reputation the original Pax had for being a herb hog does not apply to the Pax 2. I got 11 decent hits (by my standard) out of .03 g, and I get between 15-20 out of .07 g and I have yet to continue to hit a load until it doesn't produce anything. I am deeply impressed that the flavour never reaches that bitter ugh-not-hitting-that-again point, but I remind people that I have a lot of tolerance for the flavours as a load is cooked. Others might not want to take a load as far as I do, so don't read too much into hit counts.

    Oops, my mistake. :doh: Somehow I assumed Scott was an engineer. Sorry about that.
     
  22. scott_dunlap

    scott_dunlap CMO @ PAX Company Rep

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    19

    Oh man, I wish as was a cool as the design engineers here, but just the Chief Marketing Officer (yawn). But I can give you some specifics on the lip-sensing and temperatures.

    The lip-sensing capability is part of a dynamic temp setting built to optimize (1) the temperature of the materials in the oven, and (2) battery life. Note that I said temperature of the "materials" here, rather than the actual oven temp - as our engineers looked into what makes a consistent draw from first to last, it turns out optimizing temperature for the contents was really important. I'll give you an example:​
    In all oven-based vaporizers, the contents of the oven take longer to heat than the oven itself, so they're still heating up after the oven has hit its set temperature. Additionally, the contents of the oven always cool down while you are drawing on it. So, the vapor density and taste you get from an oven based vaporizer with fixed oven temp depends a lot on how long it's been since your last draw. This drove our engineers crazy, so they set out to build a system that could keep the temperature of the contents as consistent as possible. That required a new oven design with more surface area in the right places, and an auto-sensing feature to ramp up/down the oven based on how you use it.

    For the PAX 2, after heating to its set temperature (one of four settings, with a similar total range of the three settings on the original PAX), the oven cools slowly when you're not drawing from it, so that the oven contents don't continue to heat unnecessarily when the device is waiting for you. When PAX 2 detects your lip on the mouthpiece (based on touch), it heats to full power to quickly replenish the heat the oven contents lost during the draw. Heating in this way keeps your content at steadier temperatures than fixed oven temperature does, delivering a consistent experience over a wide range of usage patterns. The specific temp while you not drawing really depends on how often you are using it.

    Hopefully that all made sense.​
     
  23. KeroZen

    KeroZen Chronic vapaholic

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    Ok so this is basically just a "idle throttle back" feature like in the Herbstick Deluxe, with the difference that the Pax 2 has a touch sensor whereas the HD uses a tilt/movement detector?

    Is there a minimum temperature maintained? In the HD it will drop up to a certain point but won't cool down completely, as to not ruin the battery too much because heating from a cold state is the most taxing (and also to reduce the time it takes to reach operating temp back)
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2015
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  24. scott_dunlap

    scott_dunlap CMO @ PAX Company Rep

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    19
    Yes, this is actually spot on why we redesigned the PAX 2 to have both the lip-sensing, and a new heating algorithm that adjusts temperature dynamically based on how you use it. We also focused the temp algorithm on the materials themselves, rather than the oven temp, to make sure the draw was consistent from first to last.

    So, for example, the PAX 2 oven (newly shaped to maximize consistency of temp of the materials inside) will cool when you put it down (so as not to overly cook the contents), and when it senses your lip touching it, quickly heat up to get the contents back to the desired temp. It also adjusts oven temp as you draw, since the act of drawing cools the contents. The engineers here seriously nerded out on this feature - I personally like it because the vapes are consistent, and the battery life is maximized.

    It does also have a setting that allows us to stay on full on the time as well, if that's your thing.

    That's a great question. You are right that when you put the PAX 2 down, it cools to save your materials. The amount it cools is dynamic based on how much you are using it (ie how much time between draws), but generally is shooting for keeping the contents of your oven around 160C/320F. When the PAX 2 senses your lips touching it, it super heats the oven to get your material temp back to the desired level. It also adjusts the temp of the oven based on how much you are drawing on each draw, since the act of drawing also cools the materials. Note that in all these cases I am saying "material temp" not "oven temp" - this is where our engineers geeked out on the new algorithm, ensuring that draws are as consistent as possible for each oven load.

    Right now, the only place you can pre-order is directly from the paxvapor.com site. It will hit stores in early April.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2015
  25. KeroZen

    KeroZen Chronic vapaholic

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    But I don't get it, didn't the original Pax already have active temperature control?

    You make it sound like it's a novelty but any vaporizer with active temperature control (that is, a feedback based control loop) works this way and throttles the heater according to the demand. You draw, a drop is registered and the heater kicks in to compensate. Whether you can ovewhelm the heater or not depends on available power and draw restriction.

    Now the sensor is indeed measuring the hoven temperature and not the bowl contents because it would be impractical to have the probe inside the hoven, but they all compensate that aspect with some kind of calibration performed at design time, and sometimes even at build time in the factory (and most vapes try to extrapolate the load temp to some extent, at least by applying a fixed offset)

    Does the Pax 2 have a sensor inside the bowl?
     

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