eastcoaststoner
Member
thanks Zufi, the piece is awesome 11likes15comments is a link to my instagram and a nice little function vid! fantastic piece for flowers, im waiting for my shipment of solvents to try out in combo with my enail
Open Source Glass Thread
- Thread starter blankrider
- Start date
thanks Zufi, the piece is awesome 11likes15comments is a link to my instagram and a nice little function vid! fantastic piece for flowers, im waiting for my shipment of solvents to try out in combo with my enail
deltr0n
Big Daddy Oil
Really? I love my 710 too, but if anything, I'd love to see the diffusion pump 'perc(?)' in a much smaller can, with extended glass base more similar to the fc-mini/mothership bubbler.
What do you gain with more volume? Seems like it would only be more water volume, but seems moot since the vapor path has so little actual water contact
Frederick McGuire
Aggressively Loungey
The larger one is an entirely different tube based on the same principal...
http://aqualabtechnologies.com/scie...s/bates-x-worm-diffusion-pump-vapor-tube.html
And I'd buy the shit outta one.
Also, the real diffusion pump bubblers also come in a slightly larger 18mm version, where everything is scaled up a little bit - larger diameter tube for the downstem/perc, larger can, larger joint etc - I'd also be massively in for that
Having the same diffy pump Perc in a smaller can is Imo redundant for the exact reason you think the bigger one would be redundant - you still have the same amount of water contact...
TL/DR - bigger diffy pump = different sized perc = different function.
Same diffy pump perc in a slightly smaller package =
= cool, but I'd rather see new pieces than a v2 of an already very popular product... (Not that I don't think those changes would be cool, but I've already got a 710 
)
ragnorokk
DERP
deltr0n
Big Daddy Oil
School'dThe larger one is an entirely different tube based on the same principal...
http://aqualabtechnologies.com/scie...s/bates-x-worm-diffusion-pump-vapor-tube.html
And I'd buy the shit outta one.
Also, the real diffusion pump bubblers also come in a slightly larger 18mm version, where everything is scaled up a little bit - larger diameter tube for the downstem/perc, larger can, larger joint etc - I'd also be massively in for that
Having the same diffy pump Perc in a smaller can is Imo redundant for the exact reason you think the bigger one would be redundant - you still have the same amount of water contact...
TL/DR - bigger diffy pump = different sized perc = different function.
Same diffy pump perc in a slightly smaller package =
shoulda looked up bigger pumps, my bad hahaWould DEF be down for one of those
And I only want a smaller one for portability and clumsiness sake
NimbusVapor
Well-Known Member
No intentionally double posting but I know some of you follow this thread more than the other.
Stevens ball rig is now available!
http://www.dhgate.com/store/product/mothership-ball-2015-new-high-quality-10/250582711.html
Stevens ball rig is now available!
http://www.dhgate.com/store/product/mothership-ball-2015-new-high-quality-10/250582711.html
I've been waiting for one of those diffusion pumps to pop up 2nd hand, cheapest I've seen so far is 300. Missed the 710 sales. Would love a clone! Was able to scoop a prototype version of the other pump for 175 a few weeks ago. It's actually smaller then the fc-710.School'd
Would DEF be down for one of those
And I only want a smaller one for portability and clumsiness sake
Random off topic question: Does anyone know if online headshops do black friday/monday sales?
ragnorokk
DERP
Pix!?!
This is a Diffusion Pump that was made before they started to produce them, hence no bake on label. It's smaller than the fc-710. Sorry no side by side pics right now, left the 710 at a buddies.
ragnorokk
DERP
Like the marble color, though I'm glad the FC-710 has no color (I like my Chinese glass clear).
ragnorokk
DERP
Just put a lighter up to my FC-710 for reference. Man, you weren't joking, that thing is TINY. What do you think in comparison to steven's piece?
The function is nearly identical, the check valve glass ball is larger in the fc710 and doesn't bounce around as much but still functions as intended. Same great hit and flavor just a bit larger than the og dpump. I wonder if the bates/worm production version is the same size as my pre prodo pump? say that three times fast...
RufioCraftPukinBeagle
New Member
This one looks like it only has one opening to the downstem towards the propeller exit holes.
Those are Pukinbeagle Glass rigs and both owned by me (proof https://instagram.com/rufiocraft/). Ron and Anna of Pukinbeagle Glass are really good friends of mine and two of the most genuine and humble people I have ever met. They are a hardworking small family owned company operating out of Denver and only sell the highest quality Boro and Quartz. I'm ok with China ripping off mothership and hitman, they are multi million dollar companies but this genius propeller perc idea Ron came up with is literally putting food on the table of Ron's family. Pukinbeagle glass has very reasonable prices on their rigs (50x less than toro) so please, before trying to get a china knock off think about supporting a hardworking american family who doesnt rip people off with their prices.
herbivore21
Well-Known Member
I will agree with this, the Beagle's own propeller rig is gonna set you back 500 USD (with an opal on the perc!) or so. If you can already afford to pay that, to me it is not ethical to rip off the product just to save a buck. This is how we kill artisan-style manufacturing of products.
I know people have an idea that the Beagle's nails are expensive (and yes, they are comparatively expensive - in no small part because they are never sold from the Beagle themselves AFAIK, but only through distributors who must add a healthy markup to make it worth their while - but also from extensive experience their nails are hands down the best made quartz nails I've ever seen). Still, the Beagle's glass rigs really are not expensive in the same way!
It's a personal question for everybody of course and I'm not here to tell people what to do, but we could phrase this personal question as such:
Do we want to be hurting owner-operated small businesses whose products are made by artists, rather than a production line? This will only serve to continue pushing the industry away from the artisan production model.
weenstoned
Well-Known Member
I think you need to look at it more like music piracy. Just because someone takes something for free (or in this case buying at a greatly reduced price) doesn't mean that is a lost sale as they probably wouldn't have bought it for full price anyways. I will never buy a propeller perc for $500, though I acknowledge that the price is pretty reasonable compared to a lot of glass. Pukinbeagle is still a respected name and I doubt they'll lose many sales to Chinese copies.
S1N3
Tarzan @ KloudSociety
I had an eye opener when I saw Steven putting fake mobius labels on his pieces. The intention of these threads was not to create counterfeits but affordable glass.
With the propeller perc it is sort of a unique situation. I realize its iconic for Pukinbeagle however, the exact argument could have been made for whomever designed the first recycler. Whoever that artist was, did all the R&D into perfecting the vortex and other brands copied the concept. Heck as I recall MS asked other artists to not copy their egg design. But as evidenced by today's market, many American artists make their own eggs.
So that leaves me in moral dilemma with the propeller. Yes, Pukinbeagle created it FIRST, but are you suggesting they exclusively own this perc concept forever?
I think collaboration and borrowing ideas from others is how the glass industry got to the state its in. Therefore I wouldn't be surprised if another american artist tried to recreate the propeller. In which case my point... so what if the Chinese make a janky copy, when the original function correctly.
Pukinbeagle attention to QA vs someones best effort in China will still leave Pukinbeagle the winner. And may even inspire owners of a knockoff to buy a Pukinbeagle original. But that's my
Edit: Function as an art form, is not something I think we collectively appreciate. But I think your point is valid as someone who views scientific glass function as unique art in itself.
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RufioCraftPukinBeagle
New Member
I had an eye opener when I saw Steven putting fake mobius labels on his pieces. The intention of these threads was not to create counterfeits but affordable glass.
With the propeller perc it is sort of a unique situation. I realize its iconic for Pukinbeagle however, the exact argument could have been made for whomever designed the first recycler. Whoever that artist was, did all the R&D into perfecting the vortex and other brands copied the concept. Heck as I recall MS asked other artists to not copy their egg design. But as evidenced by today's market, many American artists make their own eggs.
So that leaves me in moral dilemma with the propeller. Yes, Pukinbeagle created it FIRST, but are you suggesting they exclusively own this perc concept forever?
I think collaboration and borrowing ideas from others is how the glass industry got to the state its in. Therefore I wouldn't be surprised if another american artist tried to recreate the propeller. In which case my point... so what if the Chinese make a jenky copy, when the original function correctly.
Pukinbeagle attention to QA vs someones best effort in China will still leave Pukinbeagle the winner. And may even inspire owners of a knockoff to buy a Pukinbeagle original. But that's my
Edit: Function as an art form, is not something I think we collectively appreciate. But I think your point is valid as someone who views scientific glass function as unique art in itself.
You don't seem to understand at all. The Beagle doesnt care if Americans/Canadian artists try to recreate the propeller, its an honor to achieve that. It's different for a bunch of vultures to sit here and conspire against a small family owned business and attempt to get CHINA to make these rigs with your jenky ass specifications, that is not honorable at all. Its not a manner of keeping his propeller design to himself but a manner of keeping artistic integrity. Ron made the first quartz nail ever and brought quartz to the industry, do you see him bitching to all the other quartz artists? NO. All this thread will achieve is soon you will see China steal pictures straight from Pukinbeagle's website saying "PB Propeller Perc Rig" and you will get a non functioning jenky product when you order. The Beagle's have given so much back to the community, not only with innovative designs but sponsoring events like BongAThong and donating all the glass for free. Go to China with this perc if you want but know you are what is bringing this industry down.
So you dont think $500 is THAT expensive for a rig, What about after that shit breaks ? Thats kinda the point of this thread man.
weenstoned
Well-Known Member
Given the price of their quartz nails (ya I know there's a mark up) I have a hard time believing that they are a struggling family business. Like I said before this is probably stealing very few $500 sales from them. I have had no hand in the development of it and will be perfectly fine if they never come out. I will not be going out and buying a legit version so it is zero of my dollars out of their pocket.
RufioCraftPukinBeagle
New Member
They repair all glass that breaks free of cost granted it is repairable.
You obviously dont know the price of American quartz and American quartz joints. There is only one person making Pukinbeagle nails and thats Ron, he slaves his ass off all day on the lathe making quartz after quartz nail. He doesnt have a team of minions making his nails like QB etc, every single nail is made by him. I never said a struggling family business I said a small family business and trust me they are not wealthy by any means, the amount of profit they make per nail is a lot less than you think. All I wanted you to realize is you are not undermining a Walmart of glass blowing companies you are undermining 1 hardworking man and his wife.
herbivore21
Well-Known Member
True man, that Mobius logo was fucked up and I agree with you, it is not always super clear when we cross the line into counterfeiting. But this is the thing, if the original piece doesn't normally have a label on it, if it uses the same perc and form-factor and could be mistaken for the original by an unsuspecting buyer due to not being substantially different from the original, then this could be considered a counterfeit.I had an eye opener when I saw Steven putting fake mobius labels on his pieces. The intention of these threads was not to create counterfeits but affordable glass.
With the propeller perc it is sort of a unique situation. I realize its iconic for Pukinbeagle however, the exact argument could have been made for whomever designed the first recycler. Whoever that artist was, did all the R&D into perfecting the vortex and other brands copied the concept. Heck as I recall MS asked other artists to not copy their egg design. But as evidenced by today's market, many American artists make their own eggs.
So that leaves me in moral dilemma with the propeller. Yes, Pukinbeagle created it FIRST, but are you suggesting they exclusively own this perc concept forever?
I think collaboration and borrowing ideas from others is how the glass industry got to the state its in. Therefore I wouldn't be surprised if another american artist tried to recreate the propeller. In which case my point... so what if the Chinese make a janky copy, when the original function correctly.
Pukinbeagle attention to QA vs someones best effort in China will still leave Pukinbeagle the winner. And may even inspire owners of a knockoff to buy a Pukinbeagle original. But that's my
Edit: Function as an art form, is not something I think we collectively appreciate. But I think your point is valid as someone who views scientific glass function as unique art in itself.
Still, I definitely agree that a lot of what is being done in this thread is not an example of counterfeiting.
For example, a matrix pillar will not be mistaken for any other brand name piece. It is a combination of two existing designs to form something new and is not a design produced by any other manufacturer to my knowledge.
In the case of the propeller perc, I have not seen anyone in this thread trying to design something new for Chinese blowers to make, but rather just make a knock-off of the existing PB piece. That to me is plagiarism and not simply 'standing on the shoulders of giants' to develop a new contribution in the field.
The question IMO lies in whether the piece is a copy with no substantial difference, or something different which develops and builds on the existing design.
I personally don't think we should be contracting Chinese manufacturers for the production of out and out knock-offs of pieces that were designed by small artisan makers, I think this could hurt the reputation of the forum and discourage (especially glass) manufacturers to cooperate with us as so many have over the years.
Still, if we were to break new ground by combining existing ideas or adding new things to them, this is a different story.
Finally, I do think that a Chinese knock-off propeller perc is likely to have very poor function. I would never buy a China piece with moving parts in the perc! The QC demanded by this kind of design far exceeds what even the best Chinese manufacturers are known to offer lol
p.s. Seriously, if PB will fix your glass for free (as Rufio suggests above) if it breaks and charge less than you would pay for plenty of popular production glass, I can't see how the 500 dollars is too expensive. How many blowers offer this kind of piece of mind?
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Monsoon
Well-Known Member
For non-propeller perc pieces, they have a Buy-One Get-One deal for $300 here which is an excellent deal. Their propeller perc pieces on their site all start at $500 but aren't simple pieces, you'll either get a clear recycler or a worked piece which is a good value at least compared to other American glass sources.
RufioCraftPukinBeagle
New Member
The site is about to be redone, the prices are all off on there. Go to https://instagram.com/pukinbeagle/ for prices and new rigs.
Frederick McGuire
Aggressively Loungey
Christ on a cracker...
$500 isn't much?
It's a fair value for the work that went into it.
I won't deny that.
But that's a fuck-tonne of money for A LOT of people.
There are many people who won't drop that much on a piece. Full stop.
Most people will never spend that much on glass even if it was for 10 rigs...
Those people MAY buy a cheapie knockoff.
Then if they like it, they might consider saving up for a proper one.
A awesome as a propellor perc looks, I don't know if I can justify dropping close to $800 on it (after intl currency conversion and shipping).
However, if I tried out a Chinese copy, and liked it, it would be a lot easier for me to start saving for one...
I know I'm not buying the best representation of the piece, but I'm buying the piece that will allow me to actually afford the herb to put through it.
I don't begrudge Ron for charging whatever he needs to charge for his items.
He makes them, that's his decision.
But at the price point the items are at, they are above what many people will be able to bear.
At a $500 price point, the item is already pretty much exclusively for those who appreciate functional glass art - it's not for your general "stoner", or medical patient Imo.
Someone who is truly into glass and has the means to afford it won't get a China prop over a PB prob.
I just cannot see that happening...
I mean, if I broke one of my möbius matrices, I'd replace it with another möbius - even though I can get substantially similar copy from China, I appreciate the added functionality and build quality that the original provides...
I do agree that modified designs are preferable to straight up knockoffs, but I see them as both having their place in the market...
Imo, every China knockoff is not a lost sale...
$500 isn't much?
It's a fair value for the work that went into it.
I won't deny that.
But that's a fuck-tonne of money for A LOT of people.
There are many people who won't drop that much on a piece. Full stop.
Most people will never spend that much on glass even if it was for 10 rigs...
Those people MAY buy a cheapie knockoff.
Then if they like it, they might consider saving up for a proper one.
A awesome as a propellor perc looks, I don't know if I can justify dropping close to $800 on it (after intl currency conversion and shipping).
However, if I tried out a Chinese copy, and liked it, it would be a lot easier for me to start saving for one...
I know I'm not buying the best representation of the piece, but I'm buying the piece that will allow me to actually afford the herb to put through it.
I don't begrudge Ron for charging whatever he needs to charge for his items.
He makes them, that's his decision.
But at the price point the items are at, they are above what many people will be able to bear.
At a $500 price point, the item is already pretty much exclusively for those who appreciate functional glass art - it's not for your general "stoner", or medical patient Imo.
Someone who is truly into glass and has the means to afford it won't get a China prop over a PB prob.
I just cannot see that happening...
I mean, if I broke one of my möbius matrices, I'd replace it with another möbius - even though I can get substantially similar copy from China, I appreciate the added functionality and build quality that the original provides...
I do agree that modified designs are preferable to straight up knockoffs, but I see them as both having their place in the market...
Imo, every China knockoff is not a lost sale...
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