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Official CBD Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Medical Discussion' started by EverythingsHazy, Dec 1, 2017.

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Which statement best describes your relationship with CBD?

  1. I use CBD because it helps treat medical issues that I have.

  2. I use CBD recreationally (either by itself or mixed with THC to change the buzz).

  3. I tried CBD and liked it, but I don't use it very often.

  4. I tried CBD and didn't like it, so I don't use it anyomre.

  5. I am still in the process of trying CBD for a while, to see if I like it.

  6. I've never tired dosing myself with CBD (THC-Free).

  7. Other (Explain in post, and note that you chose this option.)

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. shredder

    shredder Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,433
    You don't have to choose one or the other. There are thc strains that control anxiety pretty darn well. Try blue dream and or Colombian gold. Both help patients of mine deal with anxiety. For an indica try cherry pie, and you'll be a mellow fellow.

    And yes you can mix thc and CBD with good effect. A pet peeve of mine is people thinking adding CBD takes something away from thc. IMHO it enhances the experience rather than take anything away.

    It's hard to define how you feel on CBD. A lot of us feel nothing definable, it's more like a lack of pain/inflammation than something you can spot. For me it's ussually later that I realize I did something and don't feel like I would have if I didn't have the CBD. That and I focus better when on CBD. Instead of wandering around in circles forgetting my next step while doing a project, (thc) I get right on it and stay focused when on CBD.

    It's hard to over estimate the role terpenes play. They may be the most important part, or at least an equal partner. If anyone askes about specific strains they might like, I ask what strains they like now, and suggest they research the terpene profile and go by that. For instance I don't care for the peppery or earthy tasting terpenes, but love the citrus or fruity types. Follow your nose, lol.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2019
  2. rozroz

    rozroz Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    468
    so you can't tell if CBD effects general mood?
     
  3. shredder

    shredder Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,433
    My mood generally is good, I'm pretty easy going, and don't have anxiety, or depression so if it effects my mood I don't notice. We're all different though.

    My issues are more nerve, muscle, and joint issues. For these issues it helps.
     
    Madri-Gal, invertedisdead and rozroz like this.
  4. C No Ego

    C No Ego Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,717
    the Terpenes are of most importance... phytocanabinoids are terpenes, they are monoterpenes... the smelly terpenes are sesquiterpenes . sesquiterpenes have longer half life then monoterpenes and that will direct the metabolic response .. volatile sesquiterpenes are the bio-chemical directors of the monoterpenes
     
    shredder and Abysmal Vapor like this.
  5. Abysmal Vapor

    Abysmal Vapor Shaman of The Pyramid of Orlin'Malah

    Messages:
    3,895
    Location:
    7th heaven - 666th pit (EU)
    Maybe it has been a week since i am using daily CBD isolate. Tried it naked, with terps, with herb ... This compound has synergy almost with everything i tried.
    CBD + Carbonated soft drink containing Cola Nut extract 5% and Theobromine... It makes my heart beat like a hammer and for sure i had to decrease intake to half a bottle.. at a time... I am not a caffeine fan so ,maybe someone else would explore this..
    CBD has synergy with Garlic and Ginseng.. probably it has something to do with their immunostimulant properties.
    CBD alone... Compound brings a warm wave of pleasure which at lest with me turns into a stimulative phase,where i got all my sences sharpened. I get decreased appetite,almost forget about meals when i dive into the my daily job. This thing should be in Fitness formulas and in combination with Nootropics .Contatraty to the full spectrum herb effects ,i dont feel distracted or less willing to involve in working activities.. It makes you feel good without sending you on a mental vacation :)).
    At a later point the effects mellow into a stressfree state of mind.
    CBD + terpenes... WOW... dabbing it,making carts.. it is just awesome. The terps i got were OG something... and are very energising,a lot of limonene notes there.I have yet to explore multiple combinations with other terps,but it makes a ton of difference compared to not having them.
    At some point i will share more of my thoughts about it,but for now i thought i just post about my initial impressions..
    One of the biggest Myths that was busted for me ,is that CBD brings you down/ sedate or brings Indika experience...This is a common misconception at least around here. I think CBN (Which is the compound responsible for the Lazyness) anda maybe the others ,i havent tried like CBG,but for sure CBD isnt.
     
  6. boocoodinkydow

    boocoodinkydow Active Member

    Messages:
    47
    Interesting observations. Thanx for sharing.

    I’ve recently started using a full spectrum cbd (.3% thc) infused MCT oil. I’m using it in capsule form in doses ranging from 15-50mg actual cbd. I’ve added a variety of terpene isolates with little modification in effects. It’s been very useful in combatting anxiety offering a very calming effect. Unfortunately, it has an accompanying lethargic effect as well. Motivation to accomplish even minor chores is challenging.

    The results you’re experiencing with the cbd isolates is alluring and I think I may give it a go. I’ve often been faced with inconsistencies to others results due to anatomical diversity but sounds like it’s worth a try.
     
    Madri-Gal and C No Ego like this.
  7. fernand

    fernand Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    958
    Watched a family member, who's on chemo w/ rather large doses of oral cannabis, try inverting the 8:1 THC:CBD ratio he's been using. The result was always stunningly terrible. Profound depression within hours, suicidal thoughts, no desire for anything, wooden expression and movements, and loss of the anti-nauseant protection of the THC. Like night vs. day. Dramatic.

    To be specific, we're talking about an oral dose of 200mg CBD : 25mg THC, vs. the usual 250 mg THC : 30mg CBD taken twice to 3x daily. Same thing at 300mg : 40mg CBD:THC.

    100mg of 25:1 CBD also seems to bring about a not-dramatic but wooden sedation in non-tolerant patients. This would be ~ 180 mg of a CBD rich AC/DC oil.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2019
    Morty, boocoodinkydow and C No Ego like this.
  8. boocoodinkydow

    boocoodinkydow Active Member

    Messages:
    47
    Thanx for sharing.

    In an effort to find a good relief for insomnia, I found larger doses of indica dominant strains caused unbearable depressive states throughout the night. My five year quest to find insomnia relief through many different forms of cannabis has ended in failure.

    On a more positive note, I’ve recently started adding 1mg thc and 1mg of an uplifting mixture of terpene additives to 25mg of cbd and dosing twice per day for daytime use. Still not an utopian result but an improvement.
     
    hans solo and C No Ego like this.
  9. 3dfx-glide

    3dfx-glide Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    80
    have you tried going on a 2-5 day tolerance break and trying to micro dose?
     
    boocoodinkydow likes this.
  10. boocoodinkydow

    boocoodinkydow Active Member

    Messages:
    47
    Actually I have recently abstained for nearly a month because of some digestive issues. But thanx for thr suggestion.
     
  11. archangelz001

    archangelz001 FIRE!!

    Messages:
    404
    Location:
    Bay Area
    It sounds like the abrupt removal of a large dose of THC along with a sudden addition of a large dose of CBD may have had quite a bit to do with the resulting unwanted effects. Did someone with some credentials recommend that drastic change?
     
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  12. fernand

    fernand Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    958
    Well, first of all, please don't take this as disrespectful, but allow me to ROFL about the "someone with some credentials". My own search for those has been heartbreakingly disappointing. Let me know if you find even a handful world-wide, if you mean someone with say an MD, oncology experience, and a plausible understanding of Cannabis effects on cancer. All the well-meaning pundits don't count any more than all the cannabis-hostile oncologists or the Rick Simpson fans. And it's worth noting that Rick Simpson never "cured himself of cancer", unless you consider a small basal cell carcinoma on his face equivalent to a stage 3 or 4 Big C.

    To answer your implied question, "why", the reason was the same trial and error testing that's driven his rather successful treatment to date. I was reporting what we saw. Of course CBD's apparent antagonism of THC most likely plays a major role. The removal of THC is a less likely cause, since the reaction happened faster than THC is metabolized.
     
  13. Silat

    Silat When the Facts Change, I Change My Mind.

    Messages:
    997
    Location:
    Oregon
    What are the favorite online shops for Terpenes?
     
    Madri-Gal likes this.
  14. archangelz001

    archangelz001 FIRE!!

    Messages:
    404
    Location:
    Bay Area
    No disrespect taken ;-)

    The reason I asked (in the THC break thread) is because I'm a retired RN and a member of the ACNA - American Cannabis Nurses Association - and am greatly interested in the evolving research on all things cannabis. You sound like an educated person and someone who has done quite a bit of research for yourself. The link you provided is good and you probably know that THC is an agonist at CB1 (in the central nervous system, primarily in the brain) and CB2 receptors (found distributed in the immune system the gut, spleen, liver, heart, kidneys, bones, blood vessels, lymph cells, endocrine glands and reproductive organs) while CBD is an antagonist. But how and why they affect cancer cells is still not clear. To say that CBD reverses or blocks the effect of THC at CB1 and CB2 receptors is true, but that doesn't explain the depressive features you observed.


    Are you familiar with https://www.projectcbd.org/
    or https://www.cannabisclinicians.org/directory/
    Dr. Sulak's site is full of good information: https://healer.com/

    FYI, I have advanced prostate cancer. From 12/15 to 4/16 I took cannabis oil and titrated my dose up to taking 325mg of both THC and CBD via rectal suppository daily. It made a slight dent in the rate of my PSA rise but didn't have the desired effect of curing me. So I tried the oil again from 1/17 to 5/17, this time doing a 2:1 ratio of CBD/THC and titrated up to 250mg CBD + 150mg THC taken orally (all I could tolerate.) It had no effect on the rate of the rise of my PSA. I obtained the oil from here (https://wamm.org/) and it was lab tested at SCLabs, so I was assured of the cannabinoid potency.

    I always titrated up my oil dosing, and then titrated slowly off the oil for several weeks. I agree that the internet is full of snake oil salespeople and RSO dosing is a shotgun approach. One of the Nurse Practioners I know put together a 4 page file listing the best of recent cancer+cannibinoid research papers which I can share with you if you want.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2019
  15. Silat

    Silat When the Facts Change, I Change My Mind.

    Messages:
    997
    Location:
    Oregon

    I am sorry about your battle with prostate cancer.

    Please do share the NP's best of papers...
     
    Morty likes this.
  16. MinnBobber

    MinnBobber Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,271
    I'd like to see that as the more info, the better.

    Cancer fighting ratio:
    I do a lot of research and one Calif Dr seen in many videos (can't place his name right now?) shared his thoughts from 15+ years of experience with treating 10,000? plus patients. Granted, each person reacts differently, there is no one size fits all.
    His experience was that a THC : CBD ratio of 3:1 was the best for cancer patients.
    Anecdotal, yes, but based on a large number of patients.

    That's why we really need more research studies----hopefully they are happening???
     
  17. boocoodinkydow

    boocoodinkydow Active Member

    Messages:
    47
    T
    True Terpenes/Buy Terpenes is my choice.

    Several of my compadres and I formed a “research team”. Collectively we purchased samples of most all the strain mimicking formulas they had at that time and documented our results for a six month period. We tried to maintain an analytical approach to the project but often subjective overtones crept in. We tested the different formulas individually and didn’t divulge or opinions until we attended our weekly meetings to share results, hoping to avoid suggestive bias. We quickly found all terpenes are not created equally.

    Our tests primarily involved treating ethanol extracted tincture. We used several strains as a base for the tincture but Blue Dream was the base most often used.

    Overall, it seemed that the sativa dominate based Terpenes were more appealing than indicas. Super Lemon Haze was the collective fave with Green Crack and Durban Poison also offering satisfying results. Some of the indica mimicking strains were uncomfortable, inducing a depressive state for some.

    As a group, we attempted to investigated the creation of custom formulations using their isolates. The almost infinite possibilities quickly became a labyrinth of confusion and was abandoned.

    I have recently purchased their Essential Package containing five of the more prominent isolates. Initially, I was having only moderate success but the more I’m learning the more satisfying results I’m achieving.

    Forgive the lack of brevity.
     
    Silat, archangelz001 and C No Ego like this.
  18. C No Ego

    C No Ego Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,717
    think of THC like chemo and the CBD as repair compound... THC can repair too but the agonist property of THC makes it more of an initial cleanser to eliminate directly ( via calcium transit) with agonist pressure. the antagonism of CBD then makes more enzymatic pressure on all of the cellular mechanisms that help to maintain the cell. basically, it has to do with how CBD directs more so to immune response

    this thread seems to be all over the place :) chaos is a great thing
     
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  19. C No Ego

    C No Ego Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,717
    are you using the terps alone or titrating your cannabis with them ?
     
  20. boocoodinkydow

    boocoodinkydow Active Member

    Messages:
    47
    Our research team was adding terpenes to tincture primarily.

    Presently, I’ve made several different formulations of the terpene isolates. Recently, I’ve been experimenting with full spectrum CBD with less than stellar results; primary objection being a lethargic overtone that was almost debilitating when trying to find motivation to carry on with even simple tasks.

    I’m now using ethanol extracted tincture contains approximately 1mg of THC, 1 drop of various terpene formulations and about 25mg of full spectrum CBD with .3% THC.

    Testing continues but I am definitely noticing the differential driving forces afforded by the the different terpene formulations.

    FWIW, in the past, simple for the sake of “inquiring minds wanted to know” I mixed some terpene additives to pure MCT oil with no cannabis. To my surprise, it did offer a mild mind altering state.
     
    C No Ego likes this.
  21. C No Ego

    C No Ego Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,717
    phytocannabinoids are terpenes too... they are monoterpenes... no smell, no volatility. bi- cyclic sesquiterpenes are the volatile terps... all terpenes become terpinoids when we metabolize them

    https://www.bionity.com/en/encyclopedia/Terpene.html
    https://www.bionity.com/en/encyclopedia/Terpenoid.html
     
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  22. hans solo

    hans solo Left coast Canada

    Messages:
    323
  23. Silat

    Silat When the Facts Change, I Change My Mind.

    Messages:
    997
    Location:
    Oregon

    Lack of brevity is perfect....
    Thanks for the information..
     
    boocoodinkydow likes this.
  24. fernand

    fernand Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    958
    Warmest sympathy and encouragement to anyone
    who's suffering cancer. I hope nobody is foolhardy
    enough to reject other treatment methods and only
    use cannabis. There is cellular level evidence to suggest
    that Chemotherapy and Cannabis can work better together
    than either one alone.

    I'm a research pharmacologist by training, though I've
    spent more years as a design engineer. I'm afraid
    we're all on our own at this point, for so many reasons.

    Let me just throw out a thought, based on observation
    and trying to stay on top of the research. Physiology is
    tied into what we call emotion in ways we are just starting
    to understand. The endocannabinoid system regulates
    the biochemistry of the immune system, organ level
    physiology, mood and and consciousness. We're still very
    far from being able to pinpoint any of this at the receptor
    level, and we shouldn't get sucked into facile explanations.

    But another thread that's emerging is that perhaps the most
    important vector of disease is that an inflammatory state,
    that normally combats short term infection, goes out of
    balance, becoming a constant state of stress, and attacking
    our own bodies. For instance, atherosclerosis, that leads to
    heart attacks and strokes, seems to result from inflammation
    and a raised level of substances in the blood called CTRA,
    more than, say, fats in the diet. A little known paper by
    SW Cole tested the effect of different behaviors on the
    CTRA level. He found that specifically acts of kindness
    towards others lowered the CTRA. Other studies are now
    examining the devastating effect of loneliness and despair
    in raising the inflammatory markers in our blood, and the
    immense benefits of positive emotion and group engagement
    in improving outcomes. Old wives' tales come around.

    Coming back to the CBD topic, at the cellular level there are
    a few studies that attempt to identify which cannabinoids
    are most active against which types of cancer cells, but this
    is in its infancy. The shotgun use of a complete cannabis
    extract is still the most plausible approach. To take a leap
    with the above findings, it's plausible that THC:CBD ratios
    that produce a positive outlook are more likely to be helpful
    than those that do not. If you feel joy and express kindness
    towards others, you're more likely to get well.

    I believe that the current overemphasis on CBD, a trend
    that is rooted in the old anti-cannabis prejudices, divisive
    socio-political issues and powerful profit motives, is not very
    helpful. Not that CBD is useless, far from it. It has some very
    credible potential, but it seems least useful used by itself. The
    degree to which it diminishes the joy response to THC is maybe
    the best indicator and guide to dosage. If patients feel happier,
    it's the right direction. If there's no effect on outlook, or if
    the mood is gloomier, that's likely not to be helpful.

    The reason to try including more CBD is theoretical. In day
    to day effects it's the higher THC ratios that seem most helpful.

    In the one colorectal cancer patient I'm most familiar with,
    a THC:CBD ratio of 4:1 to 8:1, with daily oral + suppository
    THC doses in the 500-700mg range has been well tolerated
    and seems to be having greatest benefit in suppressing chemo
    side effects, on outlook, on cancer markers, and on the size
    and activity of the tumor(s) as seen in CAT and PET scans.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2019
    Morty, C No Ego, Silat and 2 others like this.
  25. 3dfx-glide

    3dfx-glide Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    80
    Wow, those are insane doses! 500-700mg THC? I'm an all day micro doser and I'm pretty toked after ~8mg THC! Not saying crazy high in the medical sense of course but just from a regular user perspective
     

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