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New Member - Help me improve my QWISO

Discussion in 'Concentrates' started by z9, Dec 8, 2012.

  1. z9

    z9 Well-Known Member

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    687
    So I've lurked hard on this forum since I bought my first vape over a year ago and have had all my questions answered without needing to post. The community here seems to be active, educated, and helpful; so I decided now is as good a time as any to join.

    A few weeks ago I was introduced to concentrates by a friend and haven't combusted since and I've only used my vaporizer a couple times. The clean, cerebral feeling is exactly what I always wanted from my medication. After one dab I'm completely satisfied, instead of taking multiple bong rips or hitting my vape for 5 to 10 minutes to achieve that level of medication. I plan on trying BHO in the future but for now I can only do QWISO.

    The first QWISO I tried was an oil. It was amber and tacky and I could see through it, it dabbed great and was very potent. An acquaintance of mine makes it but I can't get the same results. I do everything similarly except I air evap mine instead of using a double broiler like he does. I can't figure out why my QWISO comes out dusty and rock hard instead of oily and amber and it yeilds less (we use the same amount/quality of buds). I've made 4 batches now, 2 with abv, one with stems, shake and keif and my most recent one I used frozen, broken up buds. I've been trying to refine my method since my first run.

    My method - Small batch

    I froze 99% isopropyl alcohol and 3.5g of good buds for almost a day. The buds werent super dank but still really good, crystally headies . The buds were broken up, not ground.

    I set up 4 different jars each with a single unbleached coffee filter that I submerged in alcohol prior to the wash in hopes to reduce the amount of thc-ridden alcohol soaked up by the filters. I used a 5th jar that I put the bud and alcohol in and a small kitchen strainer so that the alcohol would pour out fast, without drastically impacting the wash time.

    Less than a minute lapsed from the time I removed the buds and alcohol from the freezer and put them in the jar together. After I added the alcohol I swirled and shook lightly for about 10 seconds and then strained the liquid into my first jar with a coffee filter. The buds soaked for less than 15 seconds. I then repeated the wash 3 more times, each time I shook more violently and for longer. My fourth was was between 30 and 45 seconds, I stopped keeping track after my second wash.

    I then emptied my first jar into a large glass dish and my second jar into another dish. The 3rd and 4th washes were combined, sealed, and allowed to evap at a later time.

    My first wash yielded almost nothing. The second wash yielded much more but it still wasn't that light amber colored oil that I was hoping for. I scraped the glass dish after it had air evaped for almost 24 hours, I had an air purifier blowing air onto it to speed up evap and to reduce the amount of dust or hair that the dish could pick up.

    When scraped it turned into this fine white/light green dust like the first wash.
    [​IMG]
    (lost some image quality when resized)

    I then heated the pile up with a candle warmer and Intel cpu heatsink.
    [​IMG]

    I heated it up just enough to melt it so that I could form it into a single piece so that it was easier to handle.
    [​IMG]

    Only my second wash is pictured, didn't get any from the other washes. Wearing gloves during the scraping process made things so much easier. No sticky fingers, no qwiso absorbed/melted by my hand.

    The qwiso is hard and shatters, it sounds like a rock when I drop it on the glass pan. It completely melts when dropped on my nail and is extremely potent, smallest dab blew me away.

    Overall I'm happy with my product, especially considering that this is my first run with buds but I want to increase my yeild and avoid the flaky hash because it gets everywhere.

    How do I get that light amber color and tacky tree sap consistency with a short wash?

    I know its a long ass post, but any help is greatly appreciated.
    ShipDit and fake name like this.
  2. fake name

    fake name Well-Known Member

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    To Increase yeild I suggest adding another step with a reusable golden coffee filter (non-paper); after the qucik exposure time poor through the reusable filter first into one jar, this will remove the plant material but allow the trichome heads to stay in the alcohol. After doing this you will see them floating around in the water, wait until thay have all gathered at the bottom, this means all oils have been absorbed, then poor it through the regular coffee filter. Isopropyl has a low solvency, and freezing it makes this more so true, but this is why it works for a quick wash when froze. This should maximize yeild with no adverse effects on potency.

    As for the consistency, that tends to be standard when air dryed, heat can make it more oily, and it can be whipped after heat but its a pain in the ass. May I suggest mixing in a little reclaim or abv oil in the mix. This will make it slightly less pure, but helps avoid the super shatter conditions.
    z9 and ShipDit like this.
  3. ShipDit

    ShipDit 1%

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    Sounds like you have an excellent recipe,congratulations!:clap:
    I'd love to help you with the color issue,but that will require testing. And samples...strictly research samples of course. ;)
    z9, fake name and smokum like this.
  4. z9

    z9 Well-Known Member

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    687
    I acquired a reusable golden coffee filter today and I can definitely see this improving my qwiso experience. I'll get a picture of the oil that I mentioned earlier; the person that made it is so damn vague when I ask questions about how he made his golden jolly rancher weed sap. Regardless my qwiso is more potent :rockon: I'll definitely use some reclaim with it next time to change the consistency and increase the yield a little, my glass should be nice and coated by then. I wonder if using half ground bud and half broken up nugs will make it more like an oil instead of shatter... I must experiment further.
    It doesn't really work well in my friends Cloud vape because its so hard. I need to get that shit straightened out before we go on our next snowboard trip. Cloud vape on the ski lift ftw.

    Thanks! I was expecting posts saying that my qwiso was garbage, not that it looks good lol.
    I don't know if I'll have any leftover research samples to hand out, I've been doing too much of my own research

    I just cant get over the fact that it looks like a giant rat dookie
    ShipDit likes this.
  5. fake name

    fake name Well-Known Member

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    Not garbage, seemed to hit the nail on the head. Or hit the nail with the oil.

    About the reusable step, after seperating the plant material from the trich heads and waiting for them to settle, it would work best with warming the alcohol up at that point. Put the jar facing up right in a pool of warm water from the sink. Fill the sink or a wider than the jar plastic container up with warm water, just a couple of inches, wait a couple minutes and replace the water with more warm water. When the Iso is warmer it will absorb better.

    And if you want it to work in a vape, the first powder consistency mixed in with a little green would probably work fantastic. But that stuff oils up above room temp, so it could be tricky to keep it at that consistency.
    ShipDit likes this.
  6. z9

    z9 Well-Known Member

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    687
    Thanks I'll make sure to do that on my next run. I was actually talking about my friend's cloud essential oil vape, works much better with oil than shatter. I hadn't really considered trying to vape it in my No2.

    So what should I do with my leftover weed. I dried it out on my candle warmer, then ground it up, and dried it out some more. It barely lost its green color and is as dry as can be. Soak it in coconut oil? Vape it?
    fake name likes this.
  7. fake name

    fake name Well-Known Member

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    Gotcha about the vape.

    Leftovers weed there are a few options. Personally, I'd just toss it. One option would be throughing it with any abv you have and using it for whatever you may use that for. Or, just try another run with it now that it's ground up. Leaving it with the abv makes sense to me most, they may look different but probably both have some cannibinoids left, but this is of course dependent on if you keep your abv.

    Since its ground up now, you could cook/ coconut oil it, just don't expect too much, most of the cannibinoids should be out at this point.
    z9 likes this.
  8. dannkk

    dannkk Well-Known Member

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    293
    You should check out the thread I made a couple weeks ago for something more in depth, but, imo, you need to get things colder, and wash longer. I freeze everything, but I also make ice out of salt water. It lowers the temp a bit passed normal freezing temperature. I make an ice water bath with that. Put my mason jar in the middle and soak there. Mixing with a spoon instead of shaking. I only wash twice. First is usually 1:30 to 2:30. I keep checking the color of the alcohol as I'm mixing, so I can see if it's starting to turn green. Second is like 2:00 and I shake the last few seconds....but you have to get the jar, herb and alcohol nice and frozen again before you do it or it'll come out badly. If you do it right, your second run can be almost as good as the first. It's always a learning process though. I keep pushing the soak times as long as I can without getting chlorophyll.

    Depending on the quality of herb, I get .8-1.5gs between the two runs out of a quarter.

    As for the oil being hard...that's kind of a sign of you doing it right, imo. Your friend uses a hot water bath. He's probably stirring the oil up as he evaps, and if he does this before the water is gone, he's mixing water in with his oil, which makes it more runny.
  9. fake name

    fake name Well-Known Member

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    Heyy dank, he said he froze the weed and alcohol, but idk about the mason jar. The mason jar should be frozen, glass holds its heat.

    The ice water bath should only warm everything up if the alcohol is cold enough, though. If left in a deep freezers for 24 hours the temp should be stable at about -10°f for jar alcohol and bud. The salt water can get lower than that this but it will warm up quicker that, also you say just below freezing about the salt water so I don't see it adding much.

    And as for longer exposure times I do suggest a fine strainer like a reusable coffee filter before the paper one. If alcohol is below freezing, then the initial contact will rip of the trich heads like water in bubble hash, then simply seperate plant material from trich heads and alcohol while continuing to absorb the oils of the bud. This is applicable to even after your longer exposure time, to get all the oils from the trichromes it takez about 7minutez at room temp. By adding this step it allows all the oil to be absorbed without the need to be so quick about it because all the undesirable plant material is already seperated. Your"mixing with a spoon" should work well along with this step, that simple agitation is perfect for ripping off trich heads.
    z9 likes this.
  10. z9

    z9 Well-Known Member

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    687
    I don't have my own freezer, so I have to bury my bud and alcohol in the freezer. I really can't put more than that in the freezer since I have to hide it, I sketch out bad enough as it is. I leave my glass jars and stuff in my attic since its winter, so theyre at least colder than room temperature. Messing with the salt water seems like it'd be more trouble than its worth. I think the reusable coffee filter will make the biggest difference in the quality of my qwiso, I can't wait to try it out. I always felt like the normal coffee filters had some adverse effects on the final product.

    So fake name, you're saying I should let it sit for about 7 minutes after I wash it through the reusable filter?

    I've read through other threads on this but many guides leave out a LOT of useful information. I haven't found one super guide that tells you how to make it properly with all these little tricks such as presoaking filters and using a reusable filter during the initial strain and such.

    The sticky at the top of this section is what inspired me to start making qwiso and join the forums.

    Dannkk I'm sure he does stir it, but I can't see how 99% iso has enough water in it to make that big of a difference. his oil comes out like a golden jolly rancher. i dont really want to wash longer and extract more clorophyl and shit. Id rather have shatter than goo.
    Mynameismud and fake name like this.
  11. fake name

    fake name Well-Known Member

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    z9, 7 Mins is an approximation, visual confirmation works best. Let it sit still and once everything floating around sinks to the bottom that means the oil has been extracted in full. Its a great tip, one that I had to kinda figure out from like 12 different forums. Mostly based on a thread on rollitup's concentrate section by there User oakly1984, but even That is missing a lot of the theory behind it.

    Also, about the soaked coffee filters, after youre done running everything through poor a very tiny amount of clean Iso through them, this should move out anything leftover in the filters.
    Puffers likes this.
  12. dannkk

    dannkk Well-Known Member

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    293
    Trust me guys...it's all about keeping that stuff cold. Salt water will get as cold as your freezer does. It lowers the freezing temp enough that your freezer will not even freeze it solid. You'll get slush. The oils still dissolve when frozen, but the chlorophyll and waxes do not. You could also use dry ice, which would be a lot better, actually.

    The temp also is not stable without a cold water bath of some sort. Just the heat from your hands shaking the thing will heat it up a bunch and as soon as it's above freezing, you start getting the things you don't want in your oil.

    Without keeping everything at near freezing temps, you'll either get a very low yeild of good oil, or a large yield of bad oil. The colder everything is, the longer you can wash without getting the chlorophyll. That's why I can wash for 2 minutes and still get a nice yellow finished product.

    Last thing was the water in your buddies oil. Yes, it's only 1% water, but almost that entire 1% is left when the alcohol is gone. ISO evaps very quickly...water does not, and then he mixes the water in with his oil, which makes it runny. I mean, how hot is his bath? 150 degrees or so? Less? ISO boils around 150 and water at 212. Which is going to evap quicker? Other than chlorophyll and waxes, water is the only thing that would make your oil runny. You can get the same thing if you scrape your pan early. If he left it out in the air for 3-4 days, it'd dry up and be just like your oil.
  13. fake name

    fake name Well-Known Member

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    Dank, if they cook off the Iso, the water and isowill boil off at the same rate once its 91% Iso 9% water, there azeotrope, I believe at about 186°f. If left to just air exposure, however, the Iso will evaporate before any of the water.

    I was not disagreeing with you about keeping it cold, just what you would suggest would not stand to make it colder. Dry ice would, and is very cheap. The temp is not stable without a cold water bath only if doing the exposure time you are suggesting, perhaps, but would make no difference in just a few seconds. The exposure times you suggest are less necessary if you do the extra step I suggested, because it allows the trich heads, the important stuff, even more time for exposure while restricting any other part of the plants exposure time to seconds. If using trim, id even suggest just doing a rinse straight threw the golden filter, no exposure time but initial contact.

    And, I agree, if QWIso is runny it's probably a little moisture still trapped inside.
  14. dannkk

    dannkk Well-Known Member

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    293
    Try it out...I've tried the stuff you're talking about. This works better. You can get great product separating the trichs or with really quick washes, but the yield will be low. My way, as long as it's a good strain for oil, I get the same yield and quality as friends that make bho. Sometimes better. I've had a couple kushes that come out brown for no reason, but diesels, afgoo, stuff like that, it's always great.

    Inspiration for my method came from a write up by a chemist, who used dry ice and washed for 30 minutes or something crazy like that. He said as long as the stuff stays frozen, it won't dissolve into the alcohol. Even if everything is just 3-4 degrees below freezing, everything will stay frozen.
  15. fake name

    fake name Well-Known Member

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    I agree with the dry ice, but if i were doing it it would already be colder than the salt water is my point. If I had done this, I would have done it with a laser thermometer, and I would've measured the temp of my alcohol more than thirty degrees f below freezing after exposure. The ca nibinoids are in the trichome heads, once they're ripped off there is no point in leaving everything else in. I have conferred with a couple of chemical engineers about this process, and they refered to it as an eye opener, then confirmed for me that when tested and properly made, it is stronger than bho. It tests in the 90%'s while the best bho test in the 80%'s. I'm not disagreeing about dry ice, nor at your exposure times if that's what works for you. I'm just saying to leave the trich heads in longer because that's where all the good stuff is, and with a fine screen that's all that will get through.
    z9, smokum and Puffers like this.
  16. Puffers

    Puffers Well-Known Member

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    I really appreciate your posts man thanks for contributing. Is the purity of the qwiso higher because it doesnt extract as much waxes? Wouldnt a winterized bho be approaching 90% ranges?
    fake name likes this.
  17. fake name

    fake name Well-Known Member

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    Yessir, at least that's been my theory. But, based on taste alone it must pull less of those waxes (terpens). Also, the guy I had talked to with the test results was telling me it had more of a spectrum of cannibinoids, thc delta 9 was about the same, but the cbds were way higher. That's why if you do this with a cbd strain it will come out red, at least ive heard. But he was saying that's why it gets darker. Also, he cooked off the Iso and water to avoid dust, so kept it as pure as possible.

    When he told me about the wider spectrum he mentioned way more cannibinoids than I knew existed, Iso being a a semi-polar solvent it can grab a lot more then the rather non-polar butane.

    Iso gets alotta shit for being dark, but you ever seen it auto-wax, ive seen people have there's wax white, not yellow but white. But it was crumbly, super dry only way I got it on a dabber was by sticking it with reclaim. I told my bud I was impressed with that, then he told me he'll never do it again, that he was too high. Made me chuckle, dude did it so well it scared him off.


    And thanks man, I wish I could tell ya I figured it all out myself, but ive just been listening when the smarts talk and then cross checking the chemistry on wikipedia. My state just got medical, so hope of a job has been a bit of a motivator for studying.
  18. Puffers

    Puffers Well-Known Member

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    937
    Location:
    Cali, Bay Area

    Haha I was at work and didn't have much time to post but I have wondered if iso extracted a wider range it does seem like I see really high grade runs with better then bho efficiency. Yet everyone says there more impurities in iso extracts. I had a feeling bho might be kinda limited in its extraction spectrum because it never compares to flowers to me. Don't get me wrong I can get stupid medicated dabbing it's just not the same experience from what I have noticed.

    Good luck btw with your future endeavors
    fake name likes this.
  19. dannkk

    dannkk Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    293
    You can argue all you want, but you're just talking about things you've read or asked people about. Try doing it and then argue. I'm sharing my personal experience from doing several runs on my own. When I started out, I'd get a little bit of good oil, or a lot of crappy oil, but over time, I figured this out, and can get a lot of good oil now.

    Studying =/= Experience.
    meduser#420 likes this.
  20. fake name

    fake name Well-Known Member

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    You'll have to forgive me for not admitting to a felony on the internet. As I said, if it works for you man, right on and hell yeah. Dabs and love.
    smokum likes this.
  21. dannkk

    dannkk Well-Known Member

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    Forgive me. I don't believe you know what you're talking about. I'm done here, too, though. You can continue repeating stuff you read on the internet.
  22. shredhead

    shredhead Specialist

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    Location:
    Canada
    This thread makes me want to make some Qwizo! I got suck in a bho trap! I'm gunna try freezing the alc and the product and the settling method as well. Looking for cleaner dabs without having to get a vacuum chamber.
    fake name likes this.
  23. z9

    z9 Well-Known Member

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    687
    I'll make another batch Monday once exams are over and I have the extra time. I have some coconut oil cooking right now, I cant wait to try that tomorrow. I'm going to try using the frozen salt water technique to keep things as cold as possible on my next qwiso attempt and do two longer washes instead. I'm only using an eighth per batch until I'm happier with my product, not that my last batch was bad. I'll definitly post some pictures of my next batch.
  24. z9

    z9 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    687
    So I made another batch out of just under an eighth of flowers. It scraped like normal but once I heated it and played with it it turned into wax. The same thing happened to my last batch when I heated it. Befor I heated it I had shatter, after heating it to about 150f and playing with it it turned into wax.
    I did a 30 second and 45 second wash, strained through reusable coffee filter and combined in the same dish. It sat between 5 and 10 minutes before I filterd through a normal coffee filter.

    During scraping
    [​IMG]

    After I scraped it I put the hard, candly like consistancy oil into a small jar with the lid on and heated it. I played around with the oil with a paper clip and once I let the oil cool it turned into wax again. Which I vastly prefer to shatter. I don't have anything to weigh my wax with so I don't know what my yeild percentage was.

    Its somewhere between an amber and light green wax (it looks a little greener in the picture), my washes might have been slightly too long but the end product is still very good.

    [​IMG]So does anyone have any theories as to why my last two batches have turned into wax once exposed to heat? I don't really whip it or anything once its hot, just kinda swirl it around.

    Edit: It was one solid piece but I broke it apart and rolled it back into one piece because I had to get it out of the small canister that it was heated it. I forgot to mention that the smell is really strong, my friends think it smells good although I don't really think it smells great. It tastes pretty damn good, sweet and flowery if that makes sense.
  25. Puffers

    Puffers Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    937
    Location:
    Cali, Bay Area
    Imo the more you stir it and play with it the more moisture you trap in your product that turns it to the waxy consistency you are seeing. If you heat it enough or vac it would probably shatter back up.

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