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My secret to THC E-Cig PG-Liquid... Potent, Effective, Cheap, Easy!!!

Discussion in 'Concentrates' started by airwave, Jun 7, 2012.

  1. Budwiser

    Budwiser Member

    Messages:
    60
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  2. zor

    zor I hate the kids

    Messages:
    775
    I wanted to do a simple and cheap proof of concept test with subohm vaping and the mixes I use since I'm getting poor flavor with no leaking/sputtering with the o.pen carts. I grabbed this guy off of amazon for cheap http://www.myvaporstore.com/Kangertech-SUBVOD-Starter-Kit-p/krsv10.htm and loaded it up...

    Yuuuuuck, welcome back to splatter sputter fucking leaking city. I don't get it, every single tank style cartomizer I've used so far have some kind of leaking or sputtering action which makes vaping extremely unpleasant...the droplets land on my tongue and inside my cheeks and taste awfully bitter, plus it doesn't make for easy inhaling when I'm getting a bunch of very macro drops shot down my gullet.

    I don't get it guys, am I just super sensitive to this, is no one else who uses either Puffmajic or Holy Terps experiencing this? I did a control-ish test with just Holy Terps loaded and that sputtered like mad, will try with puffmajic just for comparison's sake, not sure I've learned anything new though.

    Before I feel comfortable doing further dilution and mixture experiments I need to make sure my damn tools work as desired, first! Thanks guys
     
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  3. Copacetic

    Copacetic Somewhere North of The Wall

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    1,230
    That's weird, I have a sub-ohm aspire tank with ceramic atomizer (running @ 22 Watts) and there's virtually no crackling, never mind spitting.

    I'm using Vapeur Extract flavourless as my diluent though (somewhere between 4 and 5 VE to 1 conc'), so maybe that's the difference?

    Also remember sub-ohming requires much faster air -flow than regular vaping, so we need to draw faster.
     
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  4. zor

    zor I hate the kids

    Messages:
    775
    Yeah, I have my subvod set to the maximum airflow possible and I inhale strongly. I'm almost inclined to make a video of this or take pics because it's frustrating...if I take the mouthpiece off (the little cylinder) there's a nice collection of juice coating the bottom of the mouthpiece and all around the hole that the mouthpiece interfaces with.

    I wonder what causes the spitting and sputtering...that doesn't seem like part of a proper vaporization phase transition since it seems like the juice is boiling and particles are ejected from the influx of heat/energy but it just isn't enough to create vapor? This reasoning doesn't really make sense to me so I have no idea....
     
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  5. Happy Jack

    Happy Jack Well-Known Member

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    52
    The carts are leaking way too much oil into the coil chamber .... it's just as simple as that. We use nothing other than plastic O-Pen carts with Holy Terps diluted 1:1 in one of the product lines we offer and we never get complaints due to what you are experiencing. We spent a lot of time and effort fine tuning the wicks in these carts before we were happy with the balance of enough oil released into the chamber but not too much. I think you have a wick issue.
     
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  6. trichome_renaissance

    trichome_renaissance Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    47
    Sounds like a possibility to me as well. I have a wickless cart and experience none of these issues with a HT/Concentrate blend.
     
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  7. Monsoon

    Monsoon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,599
    Location:
    Canada
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  8. zor

    zor I hate the kids

    Messages:
    775
    Yeah, my experience with the O.Pen carts has been perfect regarding no leaking but the flavor has become more consistently burnt over time, even if I switch to a new cart. I don't mind the flavor so much as the irritation it induces in my throat, makes every hit I take a coughing fit.

    Still, I feel that there are many who have posted here with tank setups that don't leak at all, including using some of the same ones I have (aspire k1, kanger mini, etc). It's perplexing!
     
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  9. zebra

    zebra Vaper

    Messages:
    61
    Location:
    east side

    yeah i mean agree with @Happy Jack and @trichome_renaissance if every tank you try is leaking it aint the tanks, it's the oil. Maybe your mix is resulting in a viscosity that is too thin? A lot of these canna-carts are built for thicker stuff now than they used to be previously (as they were just repurposed e juice carts), so maybe the really thin stuff gets through too easily....
     
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  10. zor

    zor I hate the kids

    Messages:
    775
    Hm, good call @zebra, I suppose viscosity could be an issue but I've experienced the same from puffmajic too, which is more viscous (qualitatively) than holy terps. If memory serves others also made straight up mixes with puffmajic at the same ratios I have and haven't had the leaking issue.

    Still, I'm gonna try to explore this avenue more. Not sure what the best mix will be, I don't want a 1:1::concentrate:diluent ratio. So, I guess I'll have to use PG/VG etc to achieve this....meh, definitely not the direction I want to go in.

    Might just resign myself to accepting the eventual bad taste from o.pen carts and maybe just ditch this idea altogether, it's getting to be too frustrating for me.
     
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  11. Budwiser

    Budwiser Member

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    60
    Well... this is awkward....... :doh:
     
  12. trichome_renaissance

    trichome_renaissance Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    47
    Some other possibilities to consider with regards to the "burnt flavor" may include (some of these may be irrelevant since I didn't pay close attention to your set up / equipment)...

    battery voltage: are you simply burning your oil by heating it too hot? try a vv battery at a lower setting like 3.2v

    hitting frequency: are you hitting your cart so frequently that your wick isn't properly reloading with oil each time, resulting in a burnt wick / damaged atomizer?

    terpene loss: perhaps the terpenes in your oil are evaporating and/or being burnt off faster than your concentrate, resulting in a flavor that becomes less pleasant over time?

    concentrate / dilutant separation: maybe the oil isn't burning at all. maybe the dilutants and the concentrate are simply separating over time and the "dark fluid" you see in the cart towards the end is really just remaining wax/shatter (similar to the terpene loss possibility)

    fwiw: I've had o.pen carts do what you describe fairly consistently. When I'm about 2/3 done with the cart I notice the oil has become significantly darker and burnt looking. Mine surprisingly enough still tastes terpy at that point though. Leads me to believe that your burnt flavor has more to do with wick burn.
     
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  13. zebra

    zebra Vaper

    Messages:
    61
    Location:
    east side
    You know I've been noticing that the darker stuff does indeed start to separate at about 1/3 remaining as well. Usually good to pulse a bit and turn upside and back a couple times and it can remix and saturate the wick a bit better (and look a bit more homogenized , though definitely darker). Never figured it could be terpene separation... Always figured It was dilutant / concentrate separation but the mixture would continue to wick, hit, and medicate though with a toned down flavor, so terpene separation may indeed fit the bill. Interesting.

    Also I notice that leaks pretty much only
    Occur for me when I'm 1/3 or below so best to always keep at least half full in my opinion when feasible.
     
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  14. salivape

    salivape Well-Known Member

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    313
    Location:
    U.K.
    What are people's thoughts on dripper RDAs for thc eliquid? To me it seems like the best way to avoid the issues with terp loss etc seeing as you only need to use enough liquid for that session. I vape nicotine liquids and it's bad enough when that goes dark and burnt, I think I'd cry if my £50 tank of liquid did the same.

    Anyone have any experience or recommendations for a dripper that wont cost the earth? Been looking at mutation x v4. I'm using an Innokin cool fire 4 40w mod if that makes a difference.
     
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  15. Copacetic

    Copacetic Somewhere North of The Wall

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    1,230
    I have that mod, and have been using:

    Twisted messes RDA clone
    (started with this/very simple kanthal dual coil/cotton wick build)
    This was fine, but messy as I wicked it as though it was just any other e-cig build.
    Cotton soaked up a LOT of liquid, and every time I take the chimney off to drip, I get a little of the liquid on the o-rings etc, hence a little messy, slightly wasteful.

    A Low-Pro RDA clone
    Clapton coils (dual) with stainless wicks.
    Worked very well for a few hits, then started to 'short' and the mod kept preventing the coils firing, and re-setting to 4 volt VV setting (I had been using it in VW mode @22W)
    I haven't got round to re-doing the wicks yet (which is what I think was shorting the mod)

    An Aspire Atlantis tank with Vaporesso c-cell ceramic atomiser
    No Mess, No fuss just works like a champ @22W

    All using 4.5 to 1 mix ratio (4.5 is Vapeur Extract)
     
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  16. rmandree

    rmandree New Member

    Messages:
    5
    I am completely new to this but figured I would try my luck.

    I recently tried my hand at making an oil for my vape. I made a tincture with 3.5 g mj and everclear. I did not decarboxylate due to mixed instructions. Some said that the vape process will take care of the process of decarboxylation, some said I still needed to. I opted to not do it since it made more sense to me. I have two questions. Do I need to decarb before making a vape oil?

    I followed the QWISO method on this post:
    https://www.reddit.com/r/vaporents/comments/1sjj1r/four_different_methods_for_making_ecig_juice_in/

    If so, is there any way to recover? I now have about 5 mL of oil, but not very strong. Any suggestions are appreciated. I was thinking about using another 3.5 g to make more potent, but I definitely want some guidance as to where I might have gone wrong.

    Thank you
     
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  17. macbill

    macbill Gregarious Misanthrope

    Messages:
    5,723
    Location:
    The Evergreen State
    If you are going to vape the oil, you are decarboxylating it as you vape. Just as you decarboxylate marijuana by smoking or vaping it. If you want to use your solution as a tincture under the tongue, it probably won't work.

    see http://www.marijuanagrowershq.com/decarboxylating-cannabis-turning-thca-into-thc/

    Just let ethyl alcohol evap off: residue is THC oil. Mix THC oil (shatter, wax, etc) with a solution made specifically for concentrate so that it suspends evenly through the solution: EJMix, CC, Holy Terp, etc. Since THC is not water soluble, most e-cig liquids don't work.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2016
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  18. rmandree

    rmandree New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Thank you. How long do I store it in alcohol?
     
  19. macbill

    macbill Gregarious Misanthrope

    Messages:
    5,723
    Location:
    The Evergreen State
    Personally, I'd evaporate the alcohol to collect the THC. Either way store in a cool, dark place.
     
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  20. rmandree

    rmandree New Member

    Messages:
    5
    so I poor alcohol on it, let it evaporate, and then done? No amount of time I need to let it soak?
     
  21. macbill

    macbill Gregarious Misanthrope

    Messages:
    5,723
    Location:
    The Evergreen State
    I'm sorry: I should back up. It sounded as if you used the "Quick Wash Ethyl Alcohol" Method, or QWET to create your concentrate. "QWISO " is Quick Wash Isopropol Alcohol.
    Both these methods are detailed extensively in this forum. Once you have some concentrate, you can make a solution to use in e-cig equipment. All the knowledge you need is here! On the other hand, you may be able to find product on the Black Mkt. In that case, just buy a dilutant eg EJMix. I use CC and EJMix.

    Skunk Pharm QUISO: http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/easy-to-read-skunk-pharm-qwiso-instructions.14173/

    Skunk Pharm QWET http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/easy-to-read-skunk-pharm-qwet-instructions.14177/
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2016
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  22. zor

    zor I hate the kids

    Messages:
    775
    Yep, I've tried it at low voltages, higher ones, the taste persists

    I wondered about that before, and loooooooong durations between hits seems to help, but I imagine I should be able to take a 8-10 second hit every minute or so without ruining the flavor


    Definitely possible! This gives me some ideas for testing (below)


    I have seen this in one of my earlier batches! It does not appear to be the case with my recent mixes, however....

    Yeah, I've tried switching carts at this point, using a syringe to manipulate the thcjuice, and the burnt taste persists.


    Thanks for your insight! This gives me some ideas for testing and establishing some new controls. I have more than enough o.pen carts to fuck around with, so this is what I'm thinking and I strongly invite opinions or suggestions

    Controls
    I will load 0.25mL of Holy Terp, Puffmajic, and Pan's Ink (if I have any left) into an o.pen cart (ugh I'm so sick of typing "o.pen" for some reason) and try vaping them in different, but consistent manners. I want to see how duration, power/voltage, and frequency of hits affect the diluent/solvent flavor on its own. These are very confounding variables and I'm not sure whether I'll do a matrix of every condition or not...

    Duration: 2s, 5s, 8s, 10s, and maybe 10s+5s (two pulses since my battery caps at 10 seconds per button press)

    Voltage: Assuming my battery will adjust to any resistance difference between the different carts, start with the lowest (I believe it is 3.2V), then do 0.2V steps up to 4.2 or 4.4.

    Frequency: Take a puff every 30s, 45s, 60s, 90s.

    So....hm....

    2s 5s 8s 10s 15s
    3.2v
    3.4v
    3.6v
    3.8v
    4.0v
    4.2v
    4.4v

    yeah, something like that, do each at one frequency for a fixed number of hits (5? 10? unsure), and keep testing that way. Sound kosher?

    I'm hoping to ascertain which factors affect the flavor/experience the most, at least with the solutions alone. Then, assuming I find a range of variables which work well, I'll begin mixing in concentrates. It's possible that what I find to be good for the diluent alone is not suitable when oil has been dissolved in it, so I might have to try the range of variables all over again.

    If, however, I find that the flavor of the controls gets ruined no matter what then I think it's logical to blame the carts themselves, until I try this out with other types of tanks and carts.

    That said, I'm REALLY not looking forward to trying this in anything other than the o.pen carts because of the motherfucking sputtering and leaking. I'm jealous of you guys who don't experience this!
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2016
  23. rmandree

    rmandree New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Thank you for the comments. What could I have done in my process differently to make the oil more potent.

    after freezing everything overnight, I soaked the mj in everclear in mason jar for about 36 hours. I continued the process as instructed to make a tincture. I strained the liquid (mj/everclear mixture) into another mason jar. With the lid off the jar, I placed mason jar with the mixture into a pot of water and heated until the everclear had evaporated/boiled off. I mixed with vg/pg. It has great odor, color greenish yellow. When I smoke it, I feel next to nothing. Please advise
     
  24. zor

    zor I hate the kids

    Messages:
    775
    Blargh argh raugh my poor throat! Pans ink is waaaayy too potent, feels like I'm inhaling ethanol fumes. That scorched the back of my throat like nothing I've vaped before, lesson learned.

    I did some quick tests with the puffmajic and holy terp, nothing really conclusive given how wrecked my palate and throat are now, but FWIW holy terps seems to perform and taste the best of the two. More to come....
     
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  25. Copacetic

    Copacetic Somewhere North of The Wall

    Messages:
    1,230
    I'm too inexperienced to offer any real help here, but:
    If you are getting clouds, but no effect, then presumably your actives have been destroyed during your process.
    If your vaping equipment is producing enough heat to vape clouds, then I'd say it's safe to assume that it's getting hot enough to decarb your product.
    So my guess (in this case)would be that something like too much heat when boiling of the ethyl might be the issue.
    This is very much a guess from an inexperienced enthusiast though, so BIG pinch of salt here!

    If you're not getting clouds, then all bets are off, as it could be your liquid, OR your vape tool.

    I'm sure others will heve better advice :shrug:
     
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