Discussion in 'Portable Vaporizers' started by mistvaporizer, Aug 18, 2016.
...great news ...putting a nice touch on "march madness".. cheers man.
Alan provided me more information about the turbo tube and wood tube. I also started over to read this thread from the beginning. The MVT should provide me with a useful backup to my Crafty. My reservation number will probably not make the next batch; but maybe the next. I got in at $120 and I like the improvements that have been made.
We all just moved up three spots on the list!!!
and another 2 spots today!!!! Had one person not respond so they are off and the other person got the last unit I had. If mine breaks I'll be SOL.
Had to take today off for admin shit, ugh. Made good progress yesterday and almost finished the chimney holder part for this batch, just have to drill the holes which is a pretty fast thing. Should be able to finish all 50 holders in an hour or two.
This batch I am going to come up with some technique for adjusting the coil better and ensure the hot spot is centrally located. I had one Touch sent in for adjustment and was disappointed that I sent it out with the coil hot spot way off center. At first I actually used each unit to make sure the coil was set ok and then when I didn't have problems I went with the physical location and eyeballing the position. So I need to be more careful and if I'm doing 50 unit batches I just can't vape that much. I need to hire testers.
I know lots of volunteers for that job.
Looking at hemp fiber and a vacuum pump to do the sucking. I could use AC/DC but that gets expensive so I'm hoping the hemp fibers change color from the heat so I can monitor hot spots.
Not sure if it's been covered before, but what size screen is used for the stem?
the standard stem has an opening of about 9 mm (.35"). I have a die that I made which I use to form the mesh into the cup screen. 80 or 60 mesh stainless steel is what I use, 60 mesh for the low profile.
let me know if you need more info.
My only tiny gripe with my Touch is the need to rotate the stem due to the one sided hot spot. Still very, very happy with the vape.
So this hotspot is unavoidable? Even with proper technique?
What do those who got a Milaana think? Similar or worse tendency?
Can't the coil geometry be improved again to minimize the issue?
It is avoidable, mine is centered like Milaana, so any tunneling hotspot is dependent on technique. And Dave did just say he is taking steps to ensure consistency unit to unit?
No I'm not asking if it's centered or not, I'm asking if you can have a full session without any hotspot?
With the Mi, if I'm cautious enough I can avoid getting hotspots by extracting more slowly and being gentle on the trigger (but since the accident it's harder and I have to rotate the stem more, it's annoying and lessens the experience) With the Project OG and the first generation coil, it was completely unavoidable and every two hits you had a narrow brown spot appearing, and it required stirring all the time which was a PITA really. We even toyed with reflector screens/shields at some point with @PPN but it was a double pain, fiddling with the effin' hot screen that didn't stay in place and that could be lost etc
Hotspots are the bane of convection vapes and always have been. A quick glance at the LSV thread for instance is enough to see that even desktop vapes had the issue long before this recent wave of on demand portables.
In the Herbalaire they tackled the problem with the turbulence-inducing hole pattern to make the hot air swirl. In the Zion the heater has a large surface area and provides distributed heat and not a concentrated source like a tiny coil does. Talking about tiny coils I recall some people complaining about the need to stir in the ESV thread too... The "Eraser" version of the Project is a notch better with the more spaced out stove coil, but still needs to rotate the stem a bit. The latest "Pure" aka "Shit Fucker" version looks even better so far but I don't have enough experience with it.
Overall the best results I got were with dual coils on larger RDA's (cf BULLI thread), most notably when using the "Alien SS wire". So I know it's possible, there are ways to do it.
....don't know about anyone else's experience....but for me this is a big yawn...it's easily manipulated by either stirring your flower or simply rotating the stem...(speaking as milaana owner).
Maybe my technique sucks or I can't find a way to get proper screen placement that would work with my technique but I get hotspots with this (charred even) whereas it's very rare I get them with my milaana. I've never even gotten a blackspot/char with my newer milaana... I'm sure the bigger joint/heater size helps with this too but Idk
It's definitely bc of the proximity of the flower to the heater in my case, but I'm not sure how to alleviate it? Slower draw = combustion, faster draw = more pinpoint char, less "touch" time = unsatisfactory hit.
I like it and really want to master it but I can't get consistent good extractions. Please don't take this as a criticism of the device or etc. It is undoubtedly my technique. Others aren't having this issue and report great flavor and extraction. I can get one or the other, not both, and it's a very fine line between getting one of the two, or getting a crummy hit.
@turk : Stirring is annoying really, I don't take any joy in the "ritual" I'm sorry. Especially with a portable that I'm using nearly all the time away from home. It's the inverse of stealthy, having to spill herb in your palm like that and sucking it back.
Once a coworker saw me doing that and joked "now you are sniffing it? it's getting worse everyday!"...
Rotating the stem creates friction on the GonGs which is known to produce glass particles, which I'm not fond of, especially when doing deep and chronic lung inhalations...
...hey don't give up man...I can only talk of my experience (which is with the Milaana) and I experienced the same thing..I found rotating the stem after every hit dramatically reduced the problem...screen placement is probably a variable...but since mine hasn't shipped yet I cannot with any authrity comment...keep working it man!
...(sorry for double post)....I can definitely understand your dilemma at work...since my stuff is done 99% in my house (retired)...I am in no position to assist you...sorry.
My difficulties have been that there is a rim for the screen in the stock MVT stem, and my Alan 14:18mm stem, by nature, can only fit a 14mm screen so deep before it just falls lol. I had decent success with the bamboo stem but it was work.
I've resolved to learn the stock stem but haven't had at it in a few days but there's a battery sitting in there waiting for me. One of the nice things of the killswitch
I rotate my stem 1/8 turn after each hit. I have a thin sticker I put on the stem so I know exactly where to turn it to for the next hit. First hit is due North, second is NE, third is East and so on until I've gone around the compass.
I never rotate the stem while it's fully inserted. Lift out, turn, put back in. No worries.
Yes I do lift it too, but even a straight insertion creates friction, you want to do this the least possible. If it was a smooth glass surface, no worries, but it's ground glass and the surface is full of imperfections begging to be ripped apart.
Might not be a problem with you iron-lunged folks, but for me a Milaana 0.12g bowl is between 30 and 60 hits. Multiply that by many bowls per day and it's a hell lot of insertion/removal cycles.
But I don't understand why you are defending the hotspot ffs! It's not something desirable at all, it doesn't matter how thoroughly you chew it, it's not turning into chocolate! So if it can be avoided to make the sessions more enjoyable why not?
I never stir in my SwiftPro and it's full convection. Same with my alpha Zion. With the production unit I flip the load once near the end of the session and that's all.
Same with my CFV. I do stir once a bowl and get very even extraction.....I'm still dying to try a MVT or milaana though.
Yeah so I have to agree it is largely technique dependent, though some manual vapes do handle it better than others in their design
I've found that if I fill the stem only about 1/2 to 2/3, it helps achieve minimal charring. And, of course, technique with regard to button presses is critical as well.
Bottom line is that it's not enough of an issue to keep me from using it daily, though I'll admit that it's something I'd like to see a solution for if possible.
edit: fuck it I'm having a go I'll post pics
1 hit, stock stem, fresh battery no preheat, maybe 5 seconds and I was trying to pulse to avoid charring.
Nice vapor but full spectrum of pure flower and fully roasted... not ideal.
The load obviously isn't done but I've charred a good portion of it. And look at how little I used. Like for real. loll
i gotta agree with you here, I've been using this a lot and feel I'm not getting the best hits yet while going through lots of bud. I'm coming from desktop vape hits btw.
my best advice is use double screen method close to top, don't pack bowl too tight and use pulsing 5 sec (fresh battery)stop, 3 sec, stop, 1 sec and adjust this depending on where your battery charge level is. I'm doing this through water since i prefer that to dry vaping ... i get some hotspots and have to stir with this method but get decent uniform extraction and medium clouds.
I think the problem is that when you take a hit with a convection vape tilted towards you, the heat coming out of the heater naturally rises to the side of the stem that is highest creating a hotter spot there.
When I hold my Mi more upright when hitting it with a slow draw I dont get hot spots.
I always rotate the stem after a hit or two anyway.
As far as glass dust from stem rotation, I stopped using the glass stems, and just use a great wood stem from Alan or one I turned myself with a piece of glass straw as a tip.
One of the reasons I stopped with the glass is that the first time I dropped it with the glass stem the female joint cracked up. The next time it fell with a wood stem it didnt break.
I like wood better anyway and I have a wood lathe.
The hot spot in mine is on the side that is lowest when I'm holding it for use. That also happens to be where the coil is closest to the herb, as the coil is bent upward there. I've actually wondered if I could adjust it, but I felt it best not to screw with it.
I agree with @KeroZen , hotspots are avoidable! With my beta test Touch there was no so concentrated hot spots, after a few hits (and rotate) there was a dark ring lighter in color in the center (where is the airflow) and taste didn't degrade so fast. So, imho, the beta unit was more conservative with load and didn't cash it in a few hits like the new version does. Maybe that's cause of the new coil design which heat faster and hotter, this is perfect for wax/kief/hasch but less for flowers. my production unit coil is not flat and seems to create an hotspot where it is bent up.
Actually I'm using more the Mist (other vape Mistvape did before the Touch) and enjoy a no stirring true convection experience. If i use unground buds I flip them at mid session but I don't need to crush them. The coil he used was totally different (similar to a FF coil or to the incoming Square's coil). That's still not a no-brainer since you have to rotate also.
But the Touch rest very nice and I can get some "easy" sessions with a small load and only rotate the stem. But definitly not a vape you can use at work... at least for my job! Without to mention how most vapes are not easy to use in public cause, where I live, most peoples have never seen even an e-cig before... One of my friends was suspecting me to drink alcohol while he saw me vaping on the Guru!
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