Materials discussion- RBT Milaana Glue smell

[adam_baumm]

I got my Milaana at planetvape.ca.
On July 30 2016
I was very happy with planetvape.ca from cs to pro user tips. They are the best.

Happy with my Milaana as a secondary vape.

I had a fairly strong glue smell day 1.
After that it seems to have gone away.

Milaana owners can post about their manufacturing concerns here.
Pipe up and it may sway the way things are done in the future.

Much love and good vibes.
Adam

 

[AJS]

My first Milaana which I received May 5th had a glue smell for quite a while, but as I recall, the thread found that unusual. No one else, or very few people, had the glue smell on the original units.

That unit is now 2 months old and the glue smells is for the most part gone or at least unnoticeable.

My new unit ordered June 1st received July 1st has a stronger glue smell. It is on the outside of the female glass, like right at the bridge where the wood makes contact. Does not smell inside the female. Just on the outside.
When looking at the unit so the copper is on the right and the glass is on the left, my glue is on the left side of the glass (as should everyone's). The air intake is on the right side. The air would travel down the air intake, past the heater, and up through the female. There should not be any air passing over the glue on the left side of the glass, as there seems to be no possible way for air to get through that left side.
It's possible the "fumes" from the glass could sorta sink down the walls and cause a flavor, but I imagine a blow through the intake would clear out any gases that were trying to build. I don't really see this as super plausible but worth mentioning.

 

[Shit Snacks]

I think once properly cured there is no smell at all, if your unit has a smell, I'd let is sit a bit for the cure, power through to break it in, or contact CS for the warranty bc really they should be shipped out already fully cured (there should also be no glue in the air or vapor path, it is supposed to be in a location away from the heater where it cannot get hot enough to cause any issue-- this had been tested for specifically). I agree it'd be nice if none had to be used at all, but in a working as it should Milaana there should be no issue really

 

[jojo monkey]

If there is glue holding the female joint in place then there is glue in the air path? Doesn't the intake air pass the outside of the joint where the glue is?

I found an epoxy rated to 600 F used by NASA so I now have that in my back pocket lol. But yeh, feels good to be gone with the glue... What was I thinking? It was difficult working with the standard gong joint. Next time we will steal the gong attachment and custom design the heater housing geometry so I am confident moving forward there will only be stainless and glass in the vapor path... Well, maybe wood

Too bad the lessons learned during the development of the zion did not apply to the mi.

 

[Shit Snacks]

If there is glue holding the female joint in place then there is glue in the air path? Doesn't the intake air pass the outside of the joint where the glue is?



Too bad the lessons learned during the development of the zion did not apply to the mi.

The air path part is left glue free, it's only on the side of the glass. In Zion it is even more isolated since the air intake is on the bottom and the glass joint is fully sealed. I believe the Mi is indeed stronger bc of the Zion development

 

[cybrguy]

From RBT's site...

Is there adhesive in the Zion?

Yes, Loctite® M-121HP™ Hysol® Medical Device Epoxy Adhesive is used to attach the rim of the heater glass to the wood. This is the coolest part of the heater glass and rarely does it reach over 150 degrees F which is well below the 300 F temperature limit of the this epoxy . Not only is the adhesive biologically tested to ISO 10993, a burn-off cycle is conducted at nearly 1.5 times the operating voltage to ensure any contaminants are removed from the entire heater assembly. Issues with adhesives and plastics are usually encountered when they are used outside of there temperature range. The adhesive is not part of the primary flow path and the inlet air cools the epoxy joint. All things considered, it is much safer than a power source of butane or charcoal which are known carcinogens.

Too bad the lessons learned during the development of the zion did not apply to the mi.

Too bad people wouldn't be willing to pay $350 (number pulled from the air) for a Milaana...

Custom glass, which is probably the only way to completely eliminate the glue, is pricey. The only way to keep the price down was to use off the shelf parts. Or at least that is how I understand it.

 

[nondarb]

Thanks for the info bro

Is everything under the heater isolated (no copper wires in airpath?). Sounds like the mica might be used for this purpose. Does anyone find that this mica decomposes/flakes over time at all?

Don't forget adhesive, it's also in the airpath. Not sure why we're acting as though it isn't.

No internals are isolated, but there's no solder. Yes mica eventually swells and deteriorates, unsure if its been a problem in RBT's case but it's proven an issue on the vapman after a while. A view from the top wouldnt show much that hasn't been shown before and I didn't snap a picture with the bottom cap off unfortunately.

Due to the lack of solder and simple assembly of the internals moving a mi to a new home seems very doable if you're into that sort of stuff. Batteries showed up yesterday, for me the difference between he4's and hg2's is night and day. Still need to try the vtc5. HE4's are useful for teaching others however running a little cooler really reduces chances at scorching a load.

 

[herbivore21]

Don't forget adhesive, it's also in the airpath. Not sure why we're acting as though it isn't.

No internals are isolated, but there's no solder. Yes mica eventually swells and deteriorates, unsure if its been a problem in RBT's case but it's proven an issue on the vapman after a while. A view from the top wouldnt show much that hasn't been shown before and I didn't snap a picture with the bottom cap off unfortunately.

Due to the lack of solder and simple assembly of the internals moving a mi to a new home seems very doable if you're into that sort of stuff. Batteries showed up yesterday, for me the difference between he4's and hg2's is night and day. Still need to try the vtc5. HE4's are useful for teaching others however running a little cooler really reduces chances at scorching a load.

Thanks for the info bro!

Damn, yeah that probably rules me out of this one I'd say. My requirements are for heavy duty usage at much higher temps than most will use this for (full melt requires a little more heat and more heavy draws than other dabs). I do not wanna chance that with any kind of adhesive in the airpath - especially with high concentrations of boiled terp (many of which act as a solvent) vapor whizzing past it in high quantities.

I wouldn't personally trust any adhesive in that usage scenario long term (also remember that even if adhesive is below the heater and would not normally contact vapor in normal non-inverted use; when the device is inverted, the vapor will tend to go up and out the air intake holes, rather than through your rig when you are not inhaling). Of course, you guys can make your own decision about whether you are comfortable with this for your own needs

Damn it! Seems like I'm gonna have to design my own portable now or do more extensive modifications.

BTW everyone, I am not company/product bashing here at all, my needs are pretty niche at this stage lol - but I'm not compromising on them.

 

[nondarb]

Damn, yeah that probably rules me out of this one I'd say

Well thats certainly not my intention, but while this is an excellent vaporizer it hasn't been held to the standards many of the other greats have in terms of safety at least. Very few vapes with glue, wiring ect in the airpath would make it at far as this one in the FC gauntlet.

Like I said before I'm pretty sure everything's OK, I mean I still use it. Granted I haven't done much research on the subject, not sure I want to. At any rate I hope he gets his ducks in a row and pays a little more attention to the community on his next entry (hope iteration of mi!) because the heater tech is pretty sweet even if its not entirely novel. He really missed a lot of key points on this one, don't understand it. Free R&D direct from the consumer shouldn't be ignored.

 

[herbivore21]

Well thats certainly not my intention, but while this is an excellent vaporizer it hasn't been held to the standards many of the other greats have in terms of safety at least. Very few vapes with glue, wiring ect in the airpath would make it at far as this one in the FC gauntlet.

Like I said before I'm pretty sure everything's OK, I mean I still use it. Granted I haven't done much research on the subject, not sure I want to. At any rate I hope he gets his ducks in a row and pays a little more attention to the community on his next entry (hope iteration of mi!) because the heater tech is pretty sweet even if its not entirely novel. He really missed a lot of key points on this one, don't understand it. Free R&D direct from the consumer shouldn't be ignored.

I agree with all you have said here man!

Out of interest, where is the glue located in the airpath? What does the glue serve as an adhesive for (ie: what is it sticking to what else?)?

 

[Bravesst]

POST 1000

Imho fixes are pretty basic. Get rid of glue. Screws? Why not use some type of fasteners?
Solves all issues!!! Glass replaceable, bottom plate replaceable, self repairs possible, even custom bowls, maybe both 18 and 14 mm.

@herbivore21
Here you go friend.

 

[nondarb]

I agree with all you have said here man!

Out of interest, where is the glue located in the airpath? What does the glue serve as an adhesive for (ie: what is it sticking to what else?)?

It seems this wasnt Mi thread material? Odd.

The glue is present on the bottom cap, the button housing and female fitting. The button area is the most generous with the glue in my units case. None of this outside of some of the female fittings glue is shown in @Bravesst picture because most of it is blocked by the heater, I dont have a picture of the bottom cap off. I should add that the heating element in the picture is definitely irregular/damaged as well..

 

[max]

It seems this wasnt Mi thread material? Odd.

It's not odd at all. I'll spell out one issue for you with an example. A vape has a legitimate safety issue and it's pointed out in the vape thread and discussed for pages and days before the manufacturer can address it (and that assumes it's a manufacturer that actually participates on the forum). The vape maker immediately fixes the problem and is even willing to fix/replace all units that have been sold with the issue. Problem solved, right? But what about the people who only see the posts about the problem and immediately label it a toxic vape that's to be avoided. Then they leave with that impression and spread the word to everyone they know about 'toxic vape xyz'. Is that fair to the vape maker who immediately fixed his problem and promised to fix any and all units previously produced and sold? We don't think it is and that's why this isn't "odd" to us. If it still seems so to you, sorry but the decision is still not up for discussion.

 

[bounce5]

Day 3 - done at least 8 bowls by now, still smells like glue, or is it the new wood, or both? Not sure. I think I do smell the glue though. Have definitely tasted it.

 

[xer0]

No glue smell or weird taste with my Milaana that I got last Tuesday. Everyone that has hit it has actually mentioned how good the vapor tastes after exhaling the first time.

 

[nondarb]

The vape maker immediately fixes the problem and is even willing to fix/replace all units that have been sold with the issue.

Just out of curiosity where/when did they fix the issue and where was the exchange offered? To my knowledge milaanas are still being sent out glued together.

Day 3 - done at least 8 bowls by now, still smells like glue

Do you think you might be a little paranoid and imagining it since you know its there? Mine smelled a little new and gluey at first but some dry runs got rid of it pretty quick. Another possibility is the epoxy was mistakenly mixed unevenly causing a slower cure time and lingering smell.

Maybe try some dryruns with a vapor lung or some other contraption to assist in airing it out?

 

[max]

Just out of curiosity where/when did they fix the issue and where was the exchange offered? To my knowledge milaanas are still being sent out glued together.

For the answer I'll quote myself - "I'll spell out one issue for you with an example." I proceeded from there with "A vape...." I never mentioned the vape under discussion and assumed that "an example" made it sufficiently clear. If you need further explanation send me a PM. Forum structure isn't the topic here.

 

[Slow Draw McGraw]

I have had my Milaana since May. I received it brand new from a friend and It's the NON-recessed glass version.
No glue smell or taste from first to last. Only thing I smelled was wood. I have run 'trates through it with nothing negative happening. I have run it through hydratubes and still no glue taste or smell. My ground joint is still intact. I have been taking very good care of my Milaana. My unit works very well.

 

[Dramma Lamma]

Do you think you might be a little paranoid and imagining it since you know its there?

This is a fair argument and I'm actually as ahead of you on this one as I can be. To remove myself from the equation here as much as possible: I've been handing this to my customers at the dispensary I work at with the following question "What, if anything does this item smell like inside the glass fitting?"

Over 50 trials now I've asked and well, I'm not fucking crazy BAM right out the gate a good chunk of them say glue.

Yeah sure some say it smells of nothing/wood, and actually my running tally is damn near 40/60 between glue/pure.

I have swapped units and even given different units to the same person as well.

Fact is: some people have a more sensitive nose/pallet, the exact same item will be perceived differently by 2 different people.

 

[stickstones]

@Dramma Lamma - I love your ability to get feedback from multiple users! In this case, with the pic you posted of the large amount of glue in your unit, I would expect most to say they smelled glue simply because they are going to see it right in their face as they sniff (like a placebo effect, since they can definitely see it). I wonder if your results would be different if they were blindfolded or had some other way of not seeing the glue as they sniff it.

 

[Bravesst]

No glue, never smelt glue in 3 units. I have a really good sense of smell, I searched for minor fire, leaks, odors of all kinds for over 20 years and I had "the nose". I could sniff out a minor food on the stove fire 23 floors away. For me no smell 3 units

 

[Dramma Lamma]

@Dramma Lamma - I love your ability to get feedback from multiple users! In this case, with the pic you posted of the large amount of glue in your unit, I would expect most to say they smelled glue simply because they are going to see it right in their face as they sniff (like a placebo effect, since they can definitely see it). I wonder if your results would be different if they were blindfolded or had some other way of not seeing the glue as they sniff it.

If it were 100% placebo, then I'd personally expect them to say it smells of wood. As that that largest piece of the item with a smell people can recognize.

At this point I'm over handing it to other people to smell, I'm not crazy and others do sense what I am sensing in my unit. Handing it to more people is nothing but a drop risk at this point, their input as far as I care for is collected.

The smell is there: Is it because my units were made more recently to delivery compared to others who did not report a smell? Is it because others who report no smell may not be as sensitive? Did they swap glue or curing technique? Is the wood mine is made of a bit more moist, keeping the glue minorly hydrated for slightly longer? (believe it or not this does happen in wood working)

Either way, I am force curing only 1 unit with a heat gun and letting all the others rest and cure naturally over time.

The unit with the most minimal glue line seems to be a predominantly wood smell now, with hints of the glue notes.

Time will tell on this one, I do certainly hope the glue becomes a non-issue in the long run.

Will keep you updated.

I have "liked" every post in this thread as I think this is a good healthy discussion to have here.

 

[cybrguy]

I have never noticed any glue smell on either of my RBT vapes, but that doesn't mean a person highly sensitive couldn't smell glue even on my vapes. The nose is a very powerful discriminator.

RBT talked about this himself last year.

http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/vapor-path-purity-test.18591/#post-809931

In truth I find it hard to imagine ambient temp air passing over cured medical grade epoxy being a problem for anyone, but everyone gets to make their own decisions.

Over in the Jyarz thread there are folks who are impossible to satisfy with gaskets that they can smell, and very few others can. The nose knows what it knows.

 

[Dramma Lamma]

I have never noticed any glue smell on either of my RBT vapes, but that doesn't mean a person highly sensitive couldn't smell glue even on my vapes. The nose is a very powerful discriminator.

RBT talked about this himself last year.

http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/vapor-path-purity-test.18591/#post-809931

In truth I find it hard to imagine ambient temp air passing over cured medical grade epoxy being a problem for anyone, but everyone gets to make their own decisions.

Over in the Jyarz thread there are folks who are impossible to satisfy with gaskets that they can smell, and very few others can. The nose knows what it knows.

This is a good analogy actually.

Jyarz seals all have a smell on arrival to me, I simply air it open a few days it was gone and I'm now gladly using them happily.

Hoping for a similar result here in the end.

 

[Dramma Lamma]

A bit over 1 week (10 days to be exact) after arrival the glue seems fully cured that I can sense.

8 days in it seemed good but I waited a few more to be certain.

I'm gonna go ahead and NOT advise anyone force cure their units with a heat gun like I did, that unit was only ready a very small margin sooner than the other units.

Not worth the risks for such a short term payoff to me.

If you sense any glue at all, just wait and it will clear up with patience.

Now the only question is how long it lasts until/IF it decays and needs replaced.