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making Hash Oil with no solvents

Discussion in 'Ask FC' started by Finnyous, Sep 22, 2011.

  1. Finnyous

    Finnyous Member

    Messages:
    6
    I was on youtube the other day when I came across this great story and an interesting method for making hash oil http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cQrT0sDxyc&feature=player_embedded

    I got really excited, seems like a safer/easier/solventless/more effective way of making hash oil

    It got me thinking how I could replicate a similar process with my extreme q, which has lead me to some questions and observations I hope somebody smarter than me can answer/comment on. There isn't much info on this although the concept is very simple to understand. You heat up the plant matter turning it into vapor, and then when it cools off it turns into a liquid (hash oil) which you can scrape up. We've all seen the stuff on our vape whips.

    I had initially thought of trying to direct the vapor with the fan, out of the bowl and into some other glass container which I could put in ice/cold water then scrape off the remains later, but I don't think you can do that because I don't believe you can't put the fan on in an airtight system. I could use the bags but they're a pain to clean the THC off of, not to mention defeating the purpose of a solventless system.

    So this means the fan is pretty much out (unless I can somehow filter out just the air instead of the vapor which seems unlikely to me). and this makes it harder to direct the vapor, in fact I'm not even sure the extreme makes vapor without either the fan, or suction on the other end of the whip. I'm going to try to make vapor without the fan/suction tonight, although I don't know what temp would be good for this or if it would even work (don't know if anybody has any tips for this)

    But if not I was wondering if anybody knew of any vaporizers aside from the dome ones, which create vapor without the need of a fan/whip style suction. I was thinking of maybe just buying a glass vile with a screw on top, putting herb in and hitting it with a lighter until it fills up with vapor, and then throw it in the freezer for a few minutes. The problem with this being that the temp wouldn't be reliable.

    If anybody has any ideas just let me know, thanks
     
    OF likes this.
  2. stroh

    stroh errl enthusiast

    Messages:
    596
    Location:
    Action Heights
    if you absolutely refuse to use solvents such as butane or alcohol, than perhaps rosin is something you should look in to; it is full melt bubble made from dry sift or other hashes using water as the solvent.

    the method you described seems very wasteful and difficult to achieve more than a few dabs worth of oil.
     
    SSVUN~YAH and Bouldorado like this.
  3. Finnyous

    Finnyous Member

    Messages:
    6
    It's not that I'm 100% against solvents necessarily, although I'd prefer not to use them/not blow myself up. I've made green dragon and BHO before. But it's a pain to do for a multitude of reasons for me not to mention the added cost.

    In the video she seems to get a pretty high yield for the amount she uses, I guess the problem being that you can only do so much at a time (and that those dome vapes are known for combustion sometimes). I also get the impression that the quicker you can get the stuff cold the less you'll lose. I read on another forum that this stuff might have the same or higher THC content then most other oils.

    Another idea I just had might be to use a pirax glass bowl with a top on it, put it on a double boiler and find the right vaporization temp with a candy thermometer, coat the bottom of the bowl with ground up herb, vaporize inside, and then when it's all full of vapor throw it in the freezer. Although this brings some problems with it too because some of the oil will probably fall back on the buds.... hmmm

    Besides, it's seems so cool
     
  4. stroh

    stroh errl enthusiast

    Messages:
    596
    Location:
    Action Heights
    i think you linked the wrong video, the one you posted was just her talking about her book.
     
  5. Finnyous

    Finnyous Member

    Messages:
    6
    around 3:30-4:00 she starts talking about the vaporizer, how she did it and they show you how much she gets after doing it once. she just blocked off the hole for the whip.

    this is another video somebody else made using her method as well. around the 2 minute mark is the video for this one
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nW1_6E0_2nA&feature=related
     
  6. wizzoh

    wizzoh Charlie

    Messages:
    36
    Location:
    Bellingham, WA
    I've been developing some curiosity about what aspects of laboratory glass could be applied to vaporization, and something I'd been pondering recently is the use of a condenser tube ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condenser_(laboratory) ) to do this job for you.

    I'm not yet sure where in the system something like this would fit, but it could potentially be used to reclaim some active compounds re-vaping ABV at a higher temperature than you ordinarily want to inhale, or with fresher material.

    I feel like a vape with a built in fan would be best suited to some testing of this without having to add another pump/fan to your setup.

    Really, though, I'm just musing. If someone knows more about this kind of glassware, or this kind of extraction, I'd love to hear it.
     
  7. stroh

    stroh errl enthusiast

    Messages:
    596
    Location:
    Action Heights
    i understand now, that is still not a very decent yield, and that oil that you end up with is essentially reclaim, it will get you high, but the taste, smoothness, and overall pleasure will be greatly diminished.
     
  8. AGBeer

    AGBeer Lost in Thought

    Messages:
    1,713
    Location:
    Deep in my lungs
    The only other way I know of making a 'solventless' HO is a CO2 extractor. The problem is, these are REALLY high pressure units, and they are very expensive.

    If you are worried about 'blowing yourself up' then reduce the risk(s) associated with making it.

    BHO - Do it outside, Do it outside, Do it outside. (There are other suggestions but this is first and foremost.)

    QWISO - Use Denatured alcohol that you get from the hardware store. It has a much higher flash point than butane. (You can safely evap with a fan even)

    Other less volatile solvents include (but not limited to) Acetone, Hexane, Pee, (Okay just kidding on that last one)

    But you get the point. :D First and foremost, have a good 'recipe' for making your extract, a plan, and everything as close to staged before you begin.
     
  9. Finnyous

    Finnyous Member

    Messages:
    6
    This seems promising, after more googling I guess this process is called fractional distillation.

    I'm not sure what you mean by reclaim Stroh. I had always been told (and it's been my experience) that wand hash is very high in THC content. Although you would have to loose something when it changes forms, I just don't know how much, or how much less you would get than some of the other methods, especially if you can make it cold quick enough. I thought I read somewhere that the vapor in bags stays potent for 30 min if not longer.

    Might be a way to figure it out though. She was making the oil to put it into pills for her medication and made the oil 3 times a day, taking 1 gram total for the whole day. So she yielded about .33 grams of oil per bowl for however many grams you can fit into one of those bowls. Maybe somebody else who owns one can tell me how much these bowls fit.

    Either way I think I might try my pyrex experiment this weekend with a little bit and see where it takes me. I'll try to weigh everything.
     
  10. StickyShisha

    StickyShisha Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,541
    perhaps in an oven roaster bag.
     
  11. stroh

    stroh errl enthusiast

    Messages:
    596
    Location:
    Action Heights
    by using this method you are burning off all the terpenoids that give the plant its unique aroma and flavor. some also argue that the terps affect the psychoactive effects of the high. you are also extracting the THC through a much more volatile procedure, reducing its potency slightly due to being exposed to higher temperatures.

    it is called reclaim, because that is exactly what it, oil you reclaim from the piece you are using, or in this case the glass globe. you even mentioned wand hash, which is another form of reclaim.
     
  12. Finnyous

    Finnyous Member

    Messages:
    6
    That makes sense, I'd just never seen the term before.
     
  13. Hippie Dickie

    Hippie Dickie The Herbal Cube Manufacturer

    Messages:
    2,190
    Location:
    where the Cube rules!
    this is somewhat how my BT works -- glass vial with accurate temperature control -- but there is no vapor created (well practically none) until there is air flow to remove it from the trichomes.

    and, for my taste, the "reclaimed" vapor that collects in the bottom of my draw tube (where the hot vapor first hits the cool glass) is pretty tasteless and not very potent.

    A really good source of information for extraction techniques is on icmag.com/forums "cannabis resin".
     
    OF likes this.
  14. lepstadder

    lepstadder Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    590
    fan style vape (think vapir) with whip pushing vapor through a coil condenser, then you collect the oil
     
  15. wizzoh

    wizzoh Charlie

    Messages:
    36
    Location:
    Bellingham, WA
    Why a coil condenser specifically? It seems like the internals of something like that would certainly need some quantity of solvent to clean from its own residual build-up.
     
  16. Qbit

    Qbit cannabanana

    Messages:
    1,068
    Location:
    Australia
    What do you mean, 'burning off'? Nothing's actually burning.

    I wonder though what does happen to the terpenes after they evaporate.
     
  17. AGBeer

    AGBeer Lost in Thought

    Messages:
    1,713
    Location:
    Deep in my lungs
    They go here.

    At least for me... :brow:

    [​IMG]
     
    t-dub likes this.
  18. Qbit

    Qbit cannabanana

    Messages:
    1,068
    Location:
    Australia
  19. thesoloman

    thesoloman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    689
    Location:
    Temecula
    I know this thread is really old, but making oil with a vaporizer has been my dream for years, i have a settup i am working with at the moment, and haven't been getting the results i desire yet... I might post some pics latter of the settup.
     
    Bouldorado and Tweak like this.
  20. herbivore21

    herbivore21 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,104
    Don't ever expect to get anything but red to black runny oil which doesn't taste great but is a reasonable night time high.

    When you boil cannabinoids, some of them change. THCA and CBDA are both becoming THC and CBD whilst you vaporize buds.

    Without those carboxilic acids, IME you do not get shatter. Also you are most definitely cooking the terpenoids out of the bud at those temps.

    However, I am gonna look into what happens to the terps after they are boiled out, whether when cooled again they can recondense inside the vessel on a surface or whether they have been irreparably changed leading to bad tasting oil!?

    EDIT: Ok, so it turns out that the answer is not cut and dry.

    Basically, some terpenes will decompose when distilled, whereas some terpenes will remain intact. It's all down to whether you distill hot enough to cause pyrolysis of a given terp/s found in your sample. For example:

    One of the more stable terpenes is Limonene. Limonene has a boiling point of 176c (sorry guys but I'm a scientist living outside the US, as such, it's metric!). When boiled at 176c, vapor can be recondensed and limonene isolated in it's original form.

    However, at pyrolysis temps (440-570c for limonene, distillation leading to pyrolysis is called 'destructive distillation'), that limonene will have already long ago boiled into vapor, but will undergo a chemical process called 'cracking', where the pyrolysis of limonene leaves us with isoprene instead, a colourless liquid/gas with a very low boiling point (34c or so!).
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2015
  21. howie105

    howie105 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    238
    They go to turpen heaven. Sorry its the after work thing.
     
  22. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    14,361
    Location:
    Left Coast
    Fun idea, from the long past, but still 'alive'?

    It's not impossible to get a fan into a sealed system, it's done all the time. Either go with a sealed motor ("explosion proof") inside the system, or use magnets to transfer the mechanical motion through the jacket. At the low pressures we're working with, simply putting a long shaft and busing on the fan (between blades and motor) as is done in convection ovens should work.

    Care given to condensing surfaces, like say SS plates, could make harvesting simple. You can also make the surface a drum that rotates into the vapor stream then past a scraper to make it self harvesting.

    Another way around the fan problem is to simply pressurize the entire rig. Enclose your vape in a box and feed the box with the fan (before it enters the system). It shouldn't take much pressure, an inch or two of water should do fine I'd think? That way you exhaust at 'room pressure' with uniform flow through the system.

    Sort of a '100% reclaim vape'? I kinda like it.

    OF
     
    SSVUN~YAH and thesoloman like this.
  23. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    14,361
    Location:
    Left Coast
    Thinking a bit more about this it occurs to me that another useful and easy to make and use condenser might be based on the water cooled condenser we recall from Chemistry class? That is route the vapor output down a long glass tube, angled down a bit. The tube will naturally be hotter at the top and cool on the way down so the vapor passes through cooler and cooler parts before escaping. Condensate could quickly and easily be stripped out by a piston from the top, like a long syringe, that wiped the wall on the way down. From time to time you'd quickly push the piston down with a stick and resume collection?

    Collection itself becomes and issue. It's not like it's water vapor condensing out. It's an aerosol, droplets (not molecules) suspended in the air. They are not a gas, but a liquid in the end and therefore as likely to bounce off the wall as stick. Vapor lives a long time in a bag from Volcano or HA. I think this means you need to do something more, perhaps introduce turbulence so wall impacts are more often and more directed?

    FWIW the usual laboratory way of capturing vapor is to bubble it through methanol. Virtually 100% capture. But that gets us back to solvents again, although not in the same way. That is you would collect THC (and other good stuff) and not the junk in some solvent concentrates. Legal and safety issues would be the same I'd think?

    Fun topic.

    OF
     
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  24. Haze Chase

    Haze Chase New Member

    Messages:
    5
    SSVUN~YAH likes this.

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