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Low Cost, Temperature *CONTROLLED* Vaporizers

Discussion in 'Ask FC' started by AbeOnline, Feb 28, 2014.

  1. AbeOnline

    AbeOnline New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Sorry in advance if this is too off-topic, but I sort of think it is crucial to this topic: Instead of reading 30 threads, can we gather the information in a shorter, standardized format? Although I think it would work for all the vapes listed, I have a specific, even narrower question:

    Which of the low-cost vapes are actually temperature controlled. There are a lot of "dual display" and "digital input" vaporizers (Noble and Easy Vape foremost in my mind) which have a temperature read-out - but alas, the Easy Vape, at least, isn't actually controlled.

    The Problem:
    Some of these vapes work by supplying constant power to a heater, so if you draw a lot, the temp goes down, if you stop to chat, the temp goes up. If you use it on a hot day, you'll be 20 or 30 degrees above using the same vape in colder climes.

    I tried the EasyVape digital 5, since it claims to "display the actual temperature" and was irritated to find out it's not a temperature reading at all, merely a timer. You can even tell the heating scheme since the LED light gets brighter/darker not with actual temp, but with set-point.

    The Test:
    I would like to have a simple place to see if these vapes do what they claim. To test it:
    Could people try their devices like so:
    1) Turn it on, set something reasonably high (around where you would vape)
    2) Wait for it to "come to temp" - i.e. reading "actual" and "set" equal.
    3) Turn off device momentarily - a few seconds, if it works, try again at 20-30 seconds.
    4) Turn it back on. Does it show an elevated temp (significantly above the normal starting temp), ideally close to the indicated "actual temp" it recently showed?

    If the answer to #4 is "yes" then it's probably controlled. Other useful clues - if when it's warming up, it overshoots the target a bit, fluctuated during use (especially dropping slightly when inhaling, as the cold air coming in should cool it), etc.

    What was happening with mine, you could turn it off - once warmed up - for even a few seconds. When you turn it back on, it says "80*f" and continues to take the same couple minutes to reach indicated operating temperature as it does when cold. Obviously that's a fake.

    The Answer:
    Could you just post your Vape type, and if it's controlled, and how long it takes to warm up?

    Vape: {Brand/model name}
    Controlled: {Yes/No}
    Warm Up Time: {Minutes}
    Price:
    Source:
    Date of Price:

    Of course, you could leave any blank you'd like.


    Mods: If you hate me for posting this, please feel free to remove it, or better still, format it however you feel is best for your users.
     
    Seek likes this.
  2. Seek

    Seek Apprentice Daydreamer

    Messages:
    1,447
    Good test for these simple fake controls.
    If my EQ behaved like that, it would raise a red flag in my brain immediately.
    It is said it has 3 senzors and it behaves like a typical temp-controlled vape.

    Hovewer the test could easily fail if the fake was better done. For example a small batter could power up the microcontroller when off so it could run a slow timer down to get a fake hot start reading.
    fluctuation can also be easily faked in the output algorithm.
     
  3. as

    as Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    583
    Losts of cheaper vapes have temp control from what I can think of the cheapest good one would be a vapolution 2.0 wich cost $100 shipped to your door

    This vape is looked at as a very good vape for the cost and has a all glass air path I don't own one tho so can't comment more

    I do own a nano and a solo wich both are temp controlled the nano will go from room temp to combustion the solo will get to about 210c

    The solo warms up in about 2 mins
    The nano is always on but will only take 5 mins to heat up if off

    You get the nano from epicvape for $195

    Puffitup sell the solo for $160 and will help you if you have any problems


    I have used one of them crap china made box vapes and from what I saw the nano and solo are 1000000x better
     
  4. AbeOnline

    AbeOnline New Member

    Messages:
    6
    So you'd put yours in the "genuinely controlled" category? Mind making an entry for it? :-D

    I recently got a great suggestion to put all this in a tabulated entry/section on Vaporpedia - which sounds great once some data is gathered. Feel free to revisit your post and fix up "warm up time", etc, from what you THINK it is to what you measure it to be... funny how those numbers can be so different.

    Improving on the template, then:
    Vape: Nano
    Controlled: {Yes/No}
    Warm Up Time: mins
    Min Temp: C
    Max Temp: C
    Air Path:
    Price: $
    Source:
    Date of Price: mo/year

    Ok, so - and correct me where I'm wrong (like, who makes Nano and Solo... I know I've seen them, but I'm pretty shaky on brand names still)

    Vape: Nano
    Controlled: Yes
    Warm Up Time: 5
    Min Temp: room temp
    Max Temp: combustion
    Air Path: All Glass
    Price: $195
    Source: EpicVape
    Date of Price: 2/2014

    Vape: Solo
    Controlled: Yes
    Warm Up Time: 2
    Min Temp: ???
    Max Temp: 210c
    Air Path: All Glass
    Price: $160
    Source: Puffitup
    Date of Price: 2/2014
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 28, 2014
  5. as

    as Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    583
    @ACE OF VAPE makes the nano
    Arizer makes the solo

    Min temp for solo is I think setting one is 50c useless for us and 2 is 160c I think

    Also the nano and solo do not have all glass air paths but do have all glass vapor paths if that matters to you and both have grate taste
     
    Caligula likes this.
  6. deadheadbill

    deadheadbill I can see clearly now the smoke is gone...

    Messages:
    1,206
    Location:
    FL
    Too much work.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2014
  7. Hippie Dickie

    Hippie Dickie The Herbal Cube Manufacturer

    Messages:
    1,985
    Location:
    where the Cube rules!
    @AbeOnline - it's one thing to have a temperature setting, and another thing to have active (or dynamic) temperature control. Yes, the Vapolution 2 has a knob for setting a temperature, but it does not compensate for cooling during a toke. Plus, dynamic control requires the ability to increase power output - which none of the log vapes can do. ALL the low cost vapes require extremely slow inhale to prevent too much cooling. Even at that, i suspect the temp drops 50°F during the hit and must recover.

    Excuse me for venting - i have a lot invested in the concept of computer temperature control.

    Vape: The Herbal Cube (aka Bud Toaster)
    Controlled: YES with +/- 1°F stability - 8 bit processor, Type K thermocouple, 120Amp batteries.
    Actual temp display: YES - a nifty BBQ thermometer that can read up to 300°C, independent of the computer.
    Warm Up Time: 30 seconds to reach 390°F, add 60 seconds to heat soak the herb at that temp.
    Price: not determined yet, but will probably be $1000
    Source: me
    Date of Price: 06/01/2014
     
    SD_haze, Herr_Dampf and Puffers like this.
  8. Puffers

    Puffers Micro-Climate Mastermind

    Messages:
    1,006
    Location:
    Cali, Bay Area
    @Hippie Dickie great response, and saved me considerable typing. It does indeed look like he is trying to compile vaporizers with dynamic digital temperature control and afaik they are pretty few and far between..... Cloud, Evo, the Cube :hmm: I am sure there are more but they don't come readily to mind this morning..
     
    Herr_Dampf and Hippie Dickie like this.
  9. Herr_Dampf

    Herr_Dampf Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    722
    I learned quite a bit right there, thanks @Hippie Dickie
    Well, off to the bud toaster thread for a 50 page read!
     
  10. AbeOnline

    AbeOnline New Member

    Messages:
    6
    @Hippie Dickie I know, I saw your thread and absolutely love it. Skipped around a bit. :-)

    It bugs me that the people who have access to cheap manufacturing don't put any time into engineering. I've written various PID loops for my car (idle, valvetrain phasing, turbocharger wastegate actuation) and of course used a couple more advanced ones for other, professional applications - but the underlying hardware isn't expensive. The stuff that kills the home hobbyist/designer is the manufacturing.

    Getting the cases made, the bowls, etc.... Little things like your latch issue can be solved by China for 50 cents and yet is a Big Deal for someone at home. No matter how much the core design is easily improved at home, the getting-it-in-a-box thing is not an easy challenge.


    That said, the question is a tricky one: Are we looking for a power number (which, most people won't be able to access)? There are two approaches to constant temp - a huge thermal battery or a high power and fast controller. It's why you can take aluminum foil out of the over bare handed but a spoon or tray will burn you. I'm not trying to belittle your product, I think it's AMAZING... But I want a good understanding of what's out there. The heater in the cheapy $30, open loop device I'd had previous experience with would draw 50 watts anywhere from 5-20% of the time (several seconds per cycle), depending on setting. The EasyVape appears to draw power constantly, but varies the draw rate (or PWM's fast enough to appear that way). I guess I need to get out some real tools to know, but it's not important, all you have to know is regardless of heater power, they don't even TRY to control temp.


    Anyway, thanks for the additional info, As.
    Vape: Nano
    Manufacturer: Ace of Vape
    Controlled: Yes
    Warm Up Time: 5
    Min Temp: 160c
    Max Temp: combustion
    Air Path: Mixed
    Vapor Path: All Glass
    Price: $195
    Source: EpicVape
    Date of Price: 2/2014

    Vape: Solo
    Manufacturer: Arizer
    Controlled: Yes
    Warm Up Time: 2
    Min Temp: 50c
    Max Temp: 210c
    Air Path: Mixed
    Vapor Path: All Glass
    Price: $160
    Source: Puffitup
    Date of Price: 2/2014


    Max temp is useful to know, I would think, just in case someone puts different herbs in there than you may? I've heard of people putting (still broadly legal) Salvia in their vapes, and saying how they needed high temps for it - though I cannot comment.
     
  11. Hippie Dickie

    Hippie Dickie The Herbal Cube Manufacturer

    Messages:
    1,985
    Location:
    where the Cube rules!
    also, herbalizer, herbalair, aromed - for dynamic temp control, but i don't know the temp stability - better than most, i would assume.

    well, that's the thing that gets me, too. two chips and a thermocouple (for which i pay $6 each but will cost $0.15 when i get a spot welder).

    i have a nice workshop for wood and glass and gf really appreciates tools - for a non-engineer, she's a keeper. i think i can finesse the manufacturing with less than $10k for equipment.

    my max temp is limited to 500°F by software.

    my heater pulls 12amps, but is running about 18% duty cycle to maintain temperature.
     
    SD_haze likes this.
  12. Wizsteve

    Wizsteve Active Member

    Messages:
    260
    pretty soon there be a smart phone app to do all that lol
     
  13. Caligula

    Caligula *results not typical.

    Messages:
    6,636
    Location:
    So Cal
    ...actually some guys are contemplating replacing the mechanical rotary dimmer style temp switch on the EV e-nano with a wireless/wifi dimmer switch.

    And yes, the specific unit in question is controlled via android or iphone apps.
     
    herbivore21 likes this.

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