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I just left Islam

Discussion in 'The Vapor Lounge' started by technique, Jul 14, 2014.

  1. technique

    technique Well-Known Member

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    I was never a good muslim (smoking herb wasn't condoned at all lol) but I thought I understood my faith and reasons for believing etc. Its only when I decided I to search for more answers I realized the ones I had were fabricated ( this is with regards to the information I had and entirely my opinion).

    Its been a while since I left now and although it was initially quite a mind jolting experience I have managed to make peace with me new understanding and couldn't be happier.

    I was wondering if there were any more ex religious people who had changed and if the herb had in anyway helped shape your current prospective? Now that my world views have had to change so drastically I am very interested in what others in my situation feel and think and how it compares to me, on a bit of a learning journey really.
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  2. Vapour Clown

    Vapour Clown Hey Hey

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    Location:
    Oz, Country of Convicts
    Yeah man, I was raised as a Jehovah's Witness and went through similar things myself and am in the spot where you are as well.

    I seemed to go though all those emotions that happen when dealing with death of a loved one, anger, guilt and all the rest of em.

    Dunno if it was the weed that changed my perspective though. It could have been, but I've had perspective changes regularly my entire life. I personally think it's just a byproduct of learning and growing.
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  3. tuk

    tuk Well-Known Member

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    Hope you don't mind a few questions?

    When you say you've left Islam, what exactly has changed in your life: visiting mosque? reading the Koran? etc, ..do you consider yourself atheist or agnostic now or do you still have an inner dialogue with GOD...just not within the framework/rules of Islam?
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  4. Vicki

    Vicki The Bionic Woman

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    @Vapour Clown I was also raised Jehovah's Witness, but am no longer active. We should talk some time. :nod:

    @technique cannabis didn't change my attitude, I did. I became really pissed at all the injustice in my religion and saw it for what it really was. I'm just sorry so much of my life was wasted in it.
  5. t-dub

    t-dub Vapor Sloth

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    Recovering catholic here . . . I would say "the man", that being government or religion both seek power over people, the "man" doesn't like cannabis because it breaks down structured patterns of thought allowing you to question authority and what you have been told is the truth. This can lead to reorganization of the brain at higher levels of learning and consciousness which is really good for you, but makes you a much less useful slave to others and that makes them angry. More people have been killed on this planet in the name of "god" or using/invoking the name of "god" or the power of "god" to kill their enemies than just about any other framework allowing for the mass murder and torture of innocent human beings during the daylight. You may not be interested in war (or religion) but I assure you that they are interested in you.

    Edit: That being said, I still believe in a "creative force behind the universe" and I do have a personal relationship with it.
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2014
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  6. technique

    technique Well-Known Member

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    I wasn't trying to suggest cannabis changed my mind but I have always felt I was able to pick up contradictory ideas better then those around me, until you guys raised an objection I had always attributed that to weed. I see how that could be just my experience in life.

    In terms of left Islam since inhave no reason to believe in a God I don't believe one does exist but I have to grant it is still mathematically a possibility.

    For those that did leave it was one of the most traumatizing things I have ever gone through, it felt like my world was crumbling around me and I was struggling to make sense of anything what so ever. It left me quite broken for a few days. Being Jehovah's witnesses I take it you face the same backlash from family and community?
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  7. Vicki

    Vicki The Bionic Woman

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    5,537
    No backlash. They just don't speak to me anymore.
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  8. t-dub

    t-dub Vapor Sloth

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    Location:
    Oregon
    And, according to them, you aren't going to heaven right?
  9. Vicki

    Vicki The Bionic Woman

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    Only 144,000 go to heaven, no matter what happens with me. Everyone else gets to live on a paradise Earth (not me, though, because I turned my back on Jehovah), after Armageddon, of course. :rolleyes:
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2014
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  10. Enchantre

    Enchantre A short, pithy statement

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    Location:
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    I was an extreme, right-wing, evangelical-turned-anabaptist (look it up) christian for a significant portion of my life.
    Head-coverings, homeschooling, rigid gender roles... this was my "norm"

    I walked out of that in 1997. it has taken me years to get past a lot of it... and I had not ever used mmj until about 18 months ago. I've made amazing (therapy) strides, and have been working my way through re-learning the ancient myths that were - and should be - used to develop communities, and to foster acceptance of others more distant.

    And, I am an atheistic-buddhist-wiccan priestess of the Correllian Trad, 2nd degree. I perform weddings, too. :)

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
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  11. EveryDayAmnesiac

    EveryDayAmnesiac I am a stupid asshole.

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    You've come a long way, baby.
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  12. basement farmer

    basement farmer My face is melting...

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    It might be worth it if it keeps them off your front porch (Hey, I'm a "glass half full" kind of guy)

    I think most people "lose" their faith due to their ability to exercise critical thought and their inability to rectify what their faith claims in relationship to the world around them ...which is a good thing. Also, true spirituality is a lifelong journey that is and should be in various states of flux thoughout a person's lifetime. Faith, on the otherhand, is just blindly taking someone elses word for what is absolute truth.

    It seems to me that your average lay-person's spirituality is inversly related to how dogmatic their chosen faith is. I don't claim to truelly know the nature of god, but I doubt that he/ she appreciates disengenous and hypocritical followers. So, in short, as long as a person makes a genuine effort to follow the general tenets common to most faiths, they will probably do OK in this life and whatever awaits them in the beyond.
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  13. Farid

    Farid Previously Bob Hogan

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    59
    Let me preface this by saying my experience with religion is very different than your average person. My father is Pakistani, and since the 80s he hasn't identified as a Muslim. My mother is Irish American, and has been an atheist all her life. I was raised an atheist, but my parents maintained several friendships with their religious Muslim friends.


    My memory of visiting these friends as a child is that they would go to pray several times a day, and I'd sit alone for a bit, waiting for them to return. They never questioned why I didn't pray, or why I didn't eat only Kosher/Halal meat. I didn't eat pork, so we had that in common, but by the time I reached adulthood we drifted apart as I started drinking regularly.


    Since then their lives have gone in their own direction, and mine has gone in mine. When I've seen them since we've been very cordial, but haven't had a ton in common. That is, until I realized that I didn't have much in common with any of my friends. I realized that most of my friends that I saw regularly were either “stoner buddies” or “drinking buddies”.


    At this time I was going through quite a bit getting diagnosed with epilepsy. It was taking me forever to get used to my prescription meds, and I soon realized that I was going to have to quit drinking if I wanted to be seizure free. My drinking friends were understanding of my situation, but they still pressured me to drink with them. I often capitulated, only to regret it when I'd wake up in the middle of the night, seizing in a puddle of my own sweat.


    I continued to hang with my stoner friends, but since being diagnosed, I had made the choice to try and use cannabis holistically rather than holistically as well as recreationally (I found that using recreationally messed with my tolerance, and increased my consumption without any more seizure relief than I would get from using less herb). My stoner friends continued to hang with me, but often gave me shit for having changed. When I got my MMj certification many of these friends expected me to help them get herb, and when I refused they tried to claim MMJ was just an excuse for me to get high.


    Now you're probably wondering what this has to do with religion. Well realizing that I didn't share many common values with my friends put me in quite a depression. I still saw my friends, but seeing them wasn't the same as it used to be, as I realized that our relationship was a bit superficial. This got me thinking about all the friends I had had throughout my life, and my connection to them. I started thinking about how my actions have affected those around me, and realized that my friends weren't the only one's to blame for the state of our relationship. I was just as much guilty of egging my friends on to drink or do drugs, and I was just the first one to get tired of it all. Realizing this made me realize the importance of being accountable for one's actions, which is what inspired me to become more spiritual and introspective.


    When I was an atheist my introspection was always circular. I'd often mediate alone, trying to find meaning behind my stagnant existence. The conclusions I'd come too were often depressing. Often I'd justify my negative thoughts or emotions with the conclusion that we all die anyways, so nothing really matters.


    It wasn't until my grandmother was diagnosed with lung cancer that I realized the positive impact religion can have on a person. My grandmother was always a devout Muslim, and all my life she visited us, despite my family's lack of religion. She was the only one who kept in contact with my alcoholic aunt, who even my parents, (who are not Muslim, and enjoy drinking alcohol), had dropped contact with. Before my grandmother's diagnosis, my aunt quit drinking all together, and last Summer I saw her for the first time in over ten years. Soon after that came my grandmother's diagnosis. Realizing my grandmother (who we had always sidelined for being too religious) didn't have much time left on this earth, I decided to give her her dying wish. I decided that next time I talked to her I'd tell her I was converting to Islam. I wasn't sure how much I'd actually embrace the religion, but I was sure that hearing those words would bring my grandmother joy in her dying time.


    As for cannabis being accepted by Islam, what is taught in most main stream schools of Islam, is that anything that is intoxicating is Haram, and anything that causes harm to the body is Haram. Alcohol is explicitly forbidden, but other drugs are not specified. I have heard the first reason be used against recreation cannabis use, and the second reason be used against smoking of any kind. Neither of these reasons I have heard being used against vaporizing for medical reasons (as vaporizing is not bad for the body, and most Mmj users only vape to the point of relief, not intoxication).


    Even when considering recreational cannabis use, there is debate, as smoking tobacco and cannabis is very prevalent (and has a long history) in the Middle East and Central Asia. Go to any Mosque and as long as it's not Ramadan you'll likely see a bunch of bearded guys outside smoking ciggs. The strict anti smoking laws are only instituted by ultra conservative Islamic institutions (like ISIS in Iraq or some of the Muslim countires in South East Asia). Even the UAE, which has very strict laws about everything, tolerates cigarette dokha and hookah smoking.


    This came out longer than I wanted, but the main point I'd like to make is that Islam, like every other religion, has hardliners who will try and adhere to the strictest rules possible. That doesn't say anything about the religion as a whole, as there are people like me, who are accepted by fellow Muslims, as being Muslim, but who hold our own opinion, based on our own interpretation of ancient scripture.


    My Muslim friends know I vape weed. They know I used to drink. They know I have a dog that I love and that I let kiss my face. They know I pray once a day at best, and that I don't fast on Ramadan.


    Their interpretation of Islam might tell them that those are not things they should do. But a more fundamental core of Islam is that it is Haram to criticize or point out other people's sins. It's even considered Haram to question if someone is a Muslim (even if they're eating bacon and worshiping Zeus). So whenever I see them. They give me less shit about my personal life than when I see my old drinking buddies who want me to get hammered and chase girls with them, or when I see my stoner buddies who want me to smoke on their bong or blunt.
  14. JCat

    JCat Well-Known Member

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    1,132
    Location:
    Ontario
    Excellent post! .... Great job pointing out that not everything is black and white ... there is a ton of grey!
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  15. caliwisp

    caliwisp Cali Dreamin'

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    Interestingly, the proprietor of a local dispensary in my neighborhood is Muslim and he was telling me that right now he is observing his daily fast for Ramadan. During the day he does not eat, drink, smoke, or have sex, and finds it very beneficial to his health and mental state. He said that in his tradition (I am not sure what country/sect) it is common to have a "special cookie" at the end of the fasting day that contains cannabis, to boost the mood and help with health and prayers!
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  16. grokit

    grokit power cosmic

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    Location:
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    I was raised by a broken family of secular jews and protestants. I asked unacceptable questions in hebrew and sunday school, and was kicked out of both at a young age. I believe my issues stemmed from the real-life examples I had in my life at the time, being completely incongruous with these religious teachings.
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  17. basement farmer

    basement farmer My face is melting...

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    I found this video to be pretty good for anyone faith challenged.

    Lot's of different views (physicists to new age philosophers and everything in between) and presented respectfully. I didn't care for Richard Dawkins though who comes across as a condescending prick.

    KidFated. and Vicki like this.
  18. vapirtoo

    vapirtoo Well-Known Member

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    586
    I find it amazing that this gift, or chore, of life is so perplexing, so beautiful, so frightening that most people accept religion as a safety net.
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  19. 2clicker

    2clicker for your health

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    3,274
    f religion
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  20. Enchantre

    Enchantre A short, pithy statement

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    Location:
    WA USA
    And,, you see, I think that "religion" was a perversion of the early tribal group oral history/mythology method of building community identity, and to provide archetypes - your hero, priest, mother, father, teacher, etc. - for youth growing up, so that they could pattern themselves (where they fit) after an Ideal role model.

    None of those myths were intended to be taken as factual. Lots of Truth is related using mythology, which is non-factual, yet reflects a community's values.

    Building religions, like any other absolute form of governance, is for controlling the masses and maintaining the status quo. I am most familiar with the actual history of how the English language Christian bible came into being, and it was, indeed, all about keeping control of the populace, and for establishing & confirming the "divine right of kings", and of the authority of the "church"... and that applies to EVERY branch of church.

    They weren't called the Dark Ages for nothing. Throwing off those shackles triggered the Renaissance, and it really did relate more to bringing back science, the arts, and self-determination, which had all been suppressed by the state religion.

    And... I need to go medicate now. Toodles...
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  21. grokit

    grokit power cosmic

    Messages:
    4,686
    Location:
    the north
    I like the mythology part, but don't underestimate the need to have a deity to praise when the crops grow well and game is plentiful, to pay sacrifice to preserve the status quo, and to curse during times of drought.
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  22. Enchantre

    Enchantre A short, pithy statement

    Messages:
    2,386
    Location:
    WA USA
    True, that.

    Anthropomorphizing the universe is natural. It does, indeed, behave as one would expect humanity to behave, to some level... and, I also believe that the universe has a mechanism that does allow for "spiritual" beings, and of course, I also believe that there is "life" at different frequencies, etc.

    Yes, I believe in Faeries, Dragons, and Angels. Also Buddha. Some objective being that flung the universe into being, acts within in it and yet is not bound by its laws... not so much. and Reincarnation because that part of us that is life cannot "die"... it is, like the rest of the universe, energy. cannot be destroyed.
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  23. lwien

    lwien Well-Known Member

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    10,683
    Location:
    Arcadia, California
    Personally, I would never denigrate anyone for their religious beliefs as long as they are not proselytizing or bringing any harm to others.

    Life can be great. It can also be really scary and when you bring death into the equation, it "can" get REALLY scary. For many, religion offers them a sense of peace, a sense of well-being and a doctrine that helps them with those scary and sometimes very painful parts of life and if it works for them, who in the hell are we to tell them that they are wrong.
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2014
  24. technique

    technique Well-Known Member

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    210
    I think this one is more than understandable, after all when we were cavemen the one who always assumed a reason had a greater chance of survival.

    Out of two cavemen who heard a bush shake the one believing it has a reason runs and survives the one who is complacent and always assumes it to be the wind will likely be dinner sooner or later. It is natural survival instinct to need answers to what we see.

    In my personal experience I find religious people to more often than not present opinion (arguments that can be argued from both sides and neither side can prove or disprove) and claim it to be proof adding the little chestnut "I offered proof but you didn't see it." Religion and culture (if your born into a cultural society) do little more than give you unfounded predispositions which in tern have a horrible effect on cognitive reasoning and in many ways cause arrested development. I personally had to almost reevaluate everything i thought i understood and had to tear down alot of it and rebuild it in light of real understanding and intellectual reasoning
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