How to make an ABV cane sugar simple syrup?

[oldiebutgoodie]

I'm almost embarrassed to be asking a question here, given how very far ahead of me all of you chefs are. But I've come up empty using Search and I know so little about this that I couldn't begin to evaluate anything google returns. And while my wife is a fantastic cook she has zero experience with mj in the kitchen and so it's not fair to put this on her (although she will be a great coach once I have the right instructions). So . . .

I am a Long-Island Ice Tea addict. Seriously, I love this cocktail and over the years I've perfected my own recipe, which is only slightly tea-tasting, not at all as sweet as what's often served in a bar - and it's twice as strong. Of course I make my own simple syrup; nothing complicated there. But after reading the results of so many of your recipes, it occurred to me that a soft ABV-laced simple syrup might turn this drink into a rocket.

But I have absolutely no idea how to go about making that syrup. I imagine that it may involve just a cane-sugar substitution for something already described in this forum, but again, I don't even know where to begin.

Anyone who can point me in the right direction?

Thanks very much in advance.

 

[Lo]

Hmmm! You have intrigued me. I know that the Everclear tincture (see Golden Dragon/Swamp Water thread) could be reduced way down on the stovetop removing most if not all of the alcohol. Like a solvent exchange method. If I were to try I would do an extreme evaporation of alcohol and then incorporate that into my syrup.

I'm sure someone will be along soon with some other ideas. Do take caution when testing as gauging strength can be fun....or a white knuckle experience Keep us posted!

 

[herbgirl]

oldie, firstly, you are way ahead of the game for even asking questions!

anyway, the problem is that simple syrups are water based and will not leach out the actives from ABV. The compounds that we are after are not soluble in water. the stuff that makes ABV taste nasty is water soluable. no matter what you did, you'd end up with a shitty tasting simple syrup with zero effect.

I've actually been trying to figure this out so I can make it and preserve (can) it in a boiling water bath canner like I do with some other syrups. Just haven't had as much raw material as i need for all the things i want to do.

What you could do is take a PGA (pure grain alcohol - everclear) or glycerin tincture and add it to the simple syrup or use a shot of it in the drink.

let us know what you find!

 

[oldiebutgoodie]

@Lo & @herbgirl -

Thx for such quick replies - and from such vaunted contributors, no less!

Now that I know what Everclear is (I told you I was dumb as a stump about this stuff ), I've been perusing the threads re tinctures and dragons (or is that a video game?) and can see I have a heckuva lot to learn.

It would seem the notion of making a tincture and then just adding that to the already prepared simple syrup or just a tad directly to the cocktail would be the most straightforward.

My primary concern will need to be the tincture taste, and presumably potency (so as little as possible is needed). A Long Island's flavor is quite a delicate balance of the ingredients. So I will need the additive to either be close to neutral in flavor, or to be able to flavor it with a taste complimentary to the drink: I suppose that may be possible using 151 proof white rum (for extraction) or triple sec (as an additive, not the extraction), both of which are used in equal parts in the cocktail. The distinctive flavor of the drink actually comes from the combination of the triple sec and swee-n-sour. My rum, vodka, and gin mixture is essentially neutral. (I omit the tequila precisely for this reason - it's bitterness requires 3x the amt of sweet-n-sour that I use; by leaving it out and thereby reducing the sweet-n-sour, I get much less sweetness and more of a straight alcohol wallop even though there is less alcohol overall. But I digress.)

If there are any suggestions (or just links) re a particular recipe or process that gets me to the above (i.e., neutral or flavorable), that would be fantastic. I don't produce enough AVB to stumble my way trial-and-error through a bunch of different recipes, i.e., not unless I can work on this for a year or two. So I'll need to figure out where to focus first.

Thanks again for your thoughts.

 

[Lo]

lol... Well believe or not I've never tried a Long Island Iced tea in my 40 some-odd years but your description makes me want to taste one

I can tell you that alcohol tinctures do NOT taste good. I mean nasty, foul really to me but holy shit they can be potent! ROFL! ABV/SwampWater is even worse in my honest opinion, way worse. In the beginning I tried adding doses to other drinks to try and mask the nasty taste. Generally the whole drink would turn a muddy color and the taste is ruined not masked but just a foul drink that I have to consume in greater quantity You may be better served doing your shot or dose of tincture and then chasing it with a nice tasty LI Iced Tea. I found the alcohol tinctures taste to be so off-putting that I'd rather evaporate down and dose as little as possible or my favorite use is making the hard candies for friends.

The VG (vegetable glycerin) tinctures are very sweet and to me have a nice herbal taste in them, even with ABV. Not sure if you could use that to add doses to your drinks. I'd hate to see you waste much testing but a little trial and error is usually in order.

 

[Tuck]

I recently attempted to do a solvent exchange into a honey simple syrup. I was hoping to mask the taste. While it does taste better than swamp water, it is still not that pleasant. It goes down sweet but has an abv aftertaste that lingers. This is my second attempt at masking the taste. The first attempt was a magnificent failure involving way too much peppermint extract. It definitely masked the taste but it burned going down. It was like drinking mouthwash but with more burn.

If abv is hard to come by, consider making a swamp water taste test with a shot of vodka and a gram of abv. Especially if you have never tried it. 1 gram could be intense or it could be weak. You will need to experiment, to find the right dosage, but 1 gram should be a good place to start. if you don't like it, you haven't wasted too much abv.

 

[oldiebutgoodie]

@Lo & @Tuck -

Thanks for the additional observations and suggestions; good of you to be so helpful.

After reading thru the related threads here and elsewhere, I find different info re the taste. On one hand, there is broad recognition that alcohol tinctures taste awful. On the other hand, some report that using an amber rum or brandy makes it palatable or even taste good. I've also read about the glycerin alternatives. It seems that while taste is definitely better, the primary concern is effectiveness of extraction compared to using alcohol and hence the notion of adding a small percentage of alcohol to the glycerin process or evaporating an alcohol tincture and reconstituting it with glycerin (or honey, as you tried @Tuck).

But mostly what strikes me is the substantial variability in processes, amts and types of material, resulting potencies, and especially how the end result is being used. There's a heckuva big difference between a few droplets and a few droppers full (like 1-to-10). And between sublingual vs combining with a strong flavor like chocolate vs adding to bud for vaping vs . . . adding to a Long Island.

So it makes sense to test shorter time frame methods that permit limited amts of material, trial-and-error, until finding what is acceptable for the desired application (lest it waste a lot and take forever). That's my takeaway.

So off I'll go with that approach. It will be an adventure!

Thanks again!

 

[medme]

i tried making some green dragon ,,, i'm not impressed,,, i made it pretty strong and its still not strong enough,, and yes it tastes like shit,,, i've tried small doses,,and nothing,,, so tomorrow i'm going to drink the rest,,, i'll let ya all know,,,,, BUT

i sure like the sound of oldiebutgoodie's long island iced tea,,,, can we get the recipe?

 

[Lo]

Hey Medme! Next time you make the swamp water try reducing it down A LOT! Gets rid of alcohol and concentrates the tincture for smaller dosing. I have had people take it and be way too high into the next day, like tripping high. Hard to gauge strength and each batch will vary but I have found reducing it down to be a key factor in getting potency.

And yeah, that Long Island Iced Tea sounds yummy and I'm not even a drinker! Would love to see the recipe too

 

[medme]

i did reduce it down alot,, i'm gonna take some more today,,, i'll let ya know how it goes....

 

[oldiebutgoodie]

@medme & @Lo -

Per your request, my Long Island Iced Tea:

1 oz gin (Boodles, Tanqueray, Beefeater)
1 oz vodka (Ketel One, Stoli, Absolute)
1 oz Bacardi Light
1 oz DeKuyper triple sec
.5 oz Dailey's sweet-n-sour
1 teaspoon simple syrup (1 part sugar to 1 part water)
1 or 2 dashes of fresh Coca-Cola

Pour all ingredients except Coke in a glass, give several stirs, pour over Collins glass filled with ice. Splash with Coke. Give 1 stir.

The difficult part is the sweet-n-sour. Long ago I made my own, but it's a pain. Then I stumbled across Dailey's (learning later it is used by many bartenders, although the very best still will only make their own), which when supplemented by a light simple syrup, works well. (I also use Dailey's combined with Mr. & Mrs. T's in my world-class, if I may say so myself, margaritas.)

The liquor brands are important, too. Rums each have their own flavor; Bacardi is smooth enough not to overpower. A gin like Bombay has a juniper berry finish, not as neutral as those above. And I've yet to find a decent triple sec other than DeKuyper's; a nice twist is to substitute 3/4 oz Cointreau.

The Long Island (and margaritas) are splendid with vaping at ~190-200.

 

[medme]

thanks,,,, wow,, i've NEVER been to the liquor store with a list!!! hehehe,,, i love this place!

 

[medme]

ok,,,, i took about half of what i made,, and i used 1/4oz of bud.... i must have done something wrong, so i guess i'll try it again and hope for a better result.. i only got a slight buzz,,

 

[wthanna]

Did you use "fresh" bud or ABV? If you use fresh bud, you will want to be sure to decarboxylize the herb first.

 

[medme]

yes i used fresh bud,,,i decarboxylized it,,, but i think i didn't grind it fine enough,, i just kinda chopped it up..

 

[FLskwat]

Fresh bud, green dragon...little buzz? Something went wrong Medme, no doubt!
Please give us more details about your extraction process:

High grade alcohol?
Decarb. process in depth: grind?/oven temp?/timings?
Process of extraction: timing?/stirring?
Slow method or fast method for evap?
If fast method: temperature of the double boiler mixture + time/if long method: done in a dark place?
Filtration process?
Ratio no evap./evap.: 50%? 75%? ...

In fact if everything is done by the book, and you're using high quality meds... I cannot imagine this not working! I have a very f***ed up tolerance level and with 2 full droppers I'm really buzzed... Most of my friends have color modifications & co with 1 dropper full (they ain't little tokers neither!)

 

[medme]

i'm thinking i didn't grind it enough,, i just cut the buds up with scissors , spread it out on some foil,,, put in oven at 320 for 5 minutes,,, then put in everclear 190 proof,,, i simmered it in a double boiler , stirring it all the time for 30 minutes,,, the strained it,,, put it back on the double boiler and reduced it in half...
i will try it again....