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How safe is aluminum in vapes really?

Discussion in 'Ask FC' started by natural farmer, Nov 27, 2016.

  1. Abysmal Vapor

    Abysmal Vapor Shaman of The Pyramid of Orlin'Malah

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    Not trying to nit pick but Beans and other foods are stored in stainless cans,not in aluminum and coke is one of the most unhealty drinks on this planet, so a bit aluminum will only complement this qualities. I really hope you dont boil things in those cans though.. or torch them with 1300 Flame.I've read numerous articles about smoking from aluminum cans and most of them say it is ok ,because there no data to prove it is harmful,lol... but most them also add this :
    ""With any good herb, flavor is important. Smoking from foils can give your herb a harsh, metallic taste, especially if you burn the foil. The fumes may not be seriously dangerous, but smokers have reported headaches and harsher coughs from it." :tinfoil:
    For sure there is something happening and Howie already said it is all about RISK tolerans I am happy that you have decided not to worry about it ,it is probably best for one's mental health..,but "having already passed that" doesnt add to facts in anyway :),in my case i find more mental comfort by avoiding this particular type metal when it is applied in high heat concepts.:peace:
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2017
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  2. C No Ego

    C No Ego Well-Known Member

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    seeing the paint melt around the poked holes in the can from applying the flame of the bic lighter means its pure carcinogenic crap! I work around aluminum ladders= I use gloves... that black hand is not pleasing to see and oxidized aluminum gets on things... the guys at lunch that did not wear gloves and not wash their hands who do not have black hand anymore= where did the blackness go?= on the food and in their mouths :mental: Damn- lets talk about neuro coatings and aluminum stopping neurological signalling= the exact opposite of cannabinoids that promote neuronal messages... I guess I've worked with cave men type dudes
     
  3. stardustsailor

    stardustsailor Well-Known Member Accessory Maker

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  4. KeroZen

    KeroZen Chronic vapaholic

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    Here is what I would call the "Aluminium bible": pretty much the state of the art for Aluminium research.

    HUMAN HEALTH RISK ASSESSMENT FOR ALUMINIUM, ALUMINIUM OXIDE, AND ALUMINIUM HYDROXIDE
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2782734/

    From reading a few pages, the links with AD and other neuropathies have absolutely not been disproved. It's just that it's pretty hard to draw any clear conclusion, as the subject is very complex.
     
  5. lazylathe

    lazylathe Almost there...

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    Most of that article is about occupational hazards from working with the material, it then moves onto products packaged in it like soft drinks and then it moves onto inhalation types.
    This part interested me the most but it was also mainly occupational, pharmaceuticals that use it, food packaging etc...
    Nothing about heating the material and inhaling the subsequent heated air.

    My take is this:
    High heat Al is used.
    All units are carefully cleaned of any Al dust prior to and after assembly.
    No moving parts means that there is no chance of Al dust forming that we are breathing in.

    If it's good enough for Storz & Bickel heaters that have been tested, then i am okay with it.
     
  6. KeroZen

    KeroZen Chronic vapaholic

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    Perhaps, but we also started redirecting readers here from the Boundless Tera thread when they announced initially that the bowl would be aluminium. And direct contact with acidic or basic organic matter is a different story... They coat the inside of beverage cans etc to avoid too much alu leaching to the drink or food they contain, so there's definitely something happening, oxide layer or not.

    The question is also valid for the S&B concentrate pads if I'm not mistaken? Or is it some kind of capsule I don't recall?

    I also don't think hot air passing by would be much of a concern. But direct contact, I don't know.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2018
  7. Fat Freddy

    Fat Freddy FUCK CANCER TOO !

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    I hear you on that but we all know that any data associated with their testing/findings is only as good as their company's integrity and the State's oversight/regulations. So, we "trust and attempt to verify" I guess?

    FF

    /
     
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  8. Used2use

    Used2use Sometimes to stupid to become a fool

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    Hm, there is also some % aluminium in most titanium alloy :p - Aluminium can be pure or many different alloys for various purposes with different characteristics...
    S&B liquid pads are SS, the dosing caps are something like AlMgMn i would guess - pure Al wouldn't survive reshaping after stomping on one like a beer can :lol:
     
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  9. Boden

    Boden Aspie polymath

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    Ummmmm..... there is no Al exposed to the air path or anything else. Aluminum flash rusts with a layer of Al2O3 almost instantly after being exposed to air.

    Al2O3 aka aluminum oxide is one of the hardest, thermally stable, most inert substance on earth.

    Try welding Aluminum sometime. That layer can be a pain in the ass.

    Now, if you clean your bowl out with sandpaper (also most likely Al2O3 grit) you might have issues.

    :D

    Bring it ;)

    I’ve got my foil hat and everything :tinfoil:

    (Disclaimer: I mostly made this post so I could use that emoji :tup:)
     
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  10. KeroZen

    KeroZen Chronic vapaholic

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    Yes, I don't think air exposure is of any real concern. That oxide layer creates indeed extremely fast, you can even see it with the naked eye when you scratch a surface.

    I just have doubts when in contact with oily material. I'm cross-posting from the Tera thread:

    "Aluminium cans are coated internally to protect the aluminium from oxidizing. Despite this coating, trace amounts of aluminium can be degraded into the liquid, the amount depending on factors such as storage temperature and liquid composition. Chemical compounds used in the internal coating of the can include types of epoxy resin."

    (source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beverage_can#Composition)

    Of course, concentrates and even less dry herbs are not like a liquid. And I'm not claiming that there is any risk, just wondering to what extent it could interact.

    Anyway it's probably minimal at best, and less than the intake we get from water and food.
     
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  11. Baron23

    Baron23 Well-Known Member

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    Yes but which I view a a bit of hysteria, personally.
     
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  12. lazylathe

    lazylathe Almost there...

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    @KeroZen

    One important fact you may be forgetting is that with liquids, like coke, it is a caustic liquid that is extremely aggressive to basically anything.
    Place a rusted wrench in coke and it will strip the rust off easily!
    Put an ounce of herb on rust and nothing happens, with or without heat the rust stays on the wrench. Lol!

    Even if we do scratch the AL it seals itself immediately with an oxide layer.

    The cans are oxidized already once fabricated. They are coated to protect the contents from leaching AL from the can due to the contents of the can.
     
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  13. KeroZen

    KeroZen Chronic vapaholic

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    @lazylathe: yes absolutely, we're not dealing with liquids. But what happens with reclaim and runny concentrates when they stick to the bowl for a prolonged time, coupled with frequent heat cycling? That's something I wouldn't feel confident dismissing completely, as I just don't know tbh.
     
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  14. lazylathe

    lazylathe Almost there...

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    Since concentrates are also not caustic and are stuck to the oxide layer, which is inert, I still think we are okay.

    We would run into serious issues if our reclaim was either a very high or low PH that would eat away at the oxide layer.

    One concern may be with poorly purged or cleaned concentrates, the chemicals used may attack the AL but it would be for a very short time but continual usage may affect it in some small way.
     
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  15. Boden

    Boden Aspie polymath

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    If a person is vaping something that could etch AL2O3, the trace amounts of Al they might ingest would be the least of their worries.

    Having destroyed their lungs might consern them a bit more.

    Any chemical left behind would evaporate quickly in use. So inhaling the contamination would be the issue.

    You know how people think sapphire aka Corundum is the best material for this silliness. It is Al2O3.

    Funny how the best and worst material are exactly the same.

    http://www.minerals.net/mineral/corundum.aspx
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2018
  16. invertedisdead

    invertedisdead High Standards

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    Except they aren't exactly the same, they are quite different structurally, which is enough to significantly effect it's thermal properties. They only share the same chemical composition.
     
  17. Used2use

    Used2use Sometimes to stupid to become a fool

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    There is some research on aluminium foil/pans and grilling - results were that only marinated meat and grill cheese 'dissolved' some Al (reusable steel grill pans are better anyways). So as long as u don't marinate your bud it should be fine :lol:
    And even if there would be some caustic bud that reacts in contact with Al bowls, there resulting compounds would be solid and not vapor/aerosol at those temps...
     
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  18. Boden

    Boden Aspie polymath

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    That’s true. One is thin the other is thick.
     
  19. invertedisdead

    invertedisdead High Standards

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    The specific composition of the crystalline structure effects the thermal and physical properties. Sapphire is a more pure form of Al203 than aluminum oxide and is more chemically inert and thermally conductive.
     
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  20. Boden

    Boden Aspie polymath

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    Got that a bit backwards, might want to look that up.
     
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  21. Boden

    Boden Aspie polymath

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    That’s true the metal impurities in sapphire make it a semiconductor. Pure Amorphous Al2O3 is an insulator.

    On the topic of stability
    https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jp405820g#/doi/full/10.1021/jp405820g
     
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  22. asdf420

    asdf420 Well-Known Member

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    why not an aluminum vapcap tip? It may not induction heat as much, so more convection?
     
  23. Boden

    Boden Aspie polymath

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    I made one.

    It heats up and cools down too quickly.

    [​IMG]
     
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