lazylathe
Almost there...
Thanks Hippie!!!
Unfortunately most of what you said was gibberish to me...
Lots of learning for me!!
Hell, i make teeth for a living!!!
Homemade Vaporizers
- Thread starter Revolution9
- Start date
Thanks Hippie!!!
Unfortunately most of what you said was gibberish to me...
Lots of learning for me!!
Hell, i make teeth for a living!!!
sorry ... i tend to get carried away when talking about vaporizers.
this is a really easy (?) way to get +/- 1°F temperature accuracy ... two chips and a few bytes of code.
this is a really easy (?) way to get +/- 1°F temperature accuracy ... two chips and a few bytes of code.
lazylathe
Almost there...
One more question!
I have found this on flea bay and thought it might do the trick!
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Digital-PID-...LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ab55f7633&_uhb=1
Only problem i have is some basic electrical understanding...
If someone has a minute to explain it would be greatly appreciated!
When i read the specs on the PID i get:
100-240V AC
AC/DC 12-24V
Does this mean it will work on either AC or DC current or is one input and the other output?
Then there is the SSR:
Input 3-32VDC
And then the output side looks to be 24-380VAC
How would i go about connecting this all together to get it to work without blowing it up?
Thanks!!
Found this after some searching! Think this is what i am after!!
http://qandabe.com/2011/70-diy-sous-vide-universal-controller/
And these heaters look very cool!!
Any size you want, smallest one is 20mmX20mm!!
Thinking of wrapping one around a test tube instead of wire.
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Customized-Silicone-Flexible-Heater-For-3d-Printers/1286648139.html
I have found this on flea bay and thought it might do the trick!
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Digital-PID-...LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ab55f7633&_uhb=1
Only problem i have is some basic electrical understanding...
If someone has a minute to explain it would be greatly appreciated!
When i read the specs on the PID i get:
100-240V AC
AC/DC 12-24V
Does this mean it will work on either AC or DC current or is one input and the other output?
Then there is the SSR:
Input 3-32VDC
And then the output side looks to be 24-380VAC
How would i go about connecting this all together to get it to work without blowing it up?
Thanks!!
Found this after some searching! Think this is what i am after!!
http://qandabe.com/2011/70-diy-sous-vide-universal-controller/
And these heaters look very cool!!
Any size you want, smallest one is 20mmX20mm!!
Thinking of wrapping one around a test tube instead of wire.
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Customized-Silicone-Flexible-Heater-For-3d-Printers/1286648139.html
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That controller should work in theory, but it's made for heating element that take 120VAC. I don't think those 3D printer base heaters will get hot enough to go to vaping temperature.
That PID controller has 10 screw terminals on the back of it. The first two are not connected to anything you need to worry about. 3 and 4 will be connected to your thermocouple, and 6 and 8 would be connected to the Solid State Relay. Finally 9 and 10 would be connected to the wall power source, I think. There might be a plug somewhere else, and those just provide a simple place to wire the output to the SSR.
So the input to the device itself it 120VAC. I don't see anywhere where it says on the Sestos unit that it outputs DC voltage. I think you would have to connect another DC power source to the relay instead of the output power from the unit itself unless you want to fry your lamp.
That PID controller has 10 screw terminals on the back of it. The first two are not connected to anything you need to worry about. 3 and 4 will be connected to your thermocouple, and 6 and 8 would be connected to the Solid State Relay. Finally 9 and 10 would be connected to the wall power source, I think. There might be a plug somewhere else, and those just provide a simple place to wire the output to the SSR.
So the input to the device itself it 120VAC. I don't see anywhere where it says on the Sestos unit that it outputs DC voltage. I think you would have to connect another DC power source to the relay instead of the output power from the unit itself unless you want to fry your lamp.
lazylathe
Almost there...
If you check out the first link after i said Thanks you will see how to wire it all up.
Not too complicated and easier for me than building my own board.
May try to build my own board at some stage, just not yet.
So while i was lying in bed last night i came up with a new idea!
Those silicone wrap around heaters have me intrigued.
What i was thinking was:
1- Boro-silicate glass tube
2- flat silicone heater wrapped around the tube (they are good up to 250 degrees C)
Since they can build to order i want to ask to see if they can possibly make a sleeve type heater that i can just slip over the glass tube.
3- Thermocouple above the heater through the side of the glass tube
4- Maybe a Pinnacle sized bullet to load herb into and a delivery tube of sorts, most likely glass.
5- Use glass screens so the only non glass element in the air path would be the thermocouple which will be Stainless Steel. It should be small enough the not give any taste to the vapor.
Here is a quick drawing of the proposed set up, what do you think?
EDIT: Just ordered the PID, SSR and K type Thermocouple.
Still need to order the wrap around heater.
Need to figure out glass tubing diameter, measure the bullets later or make my own?
And i need to figure out how to attach the mouthpiece and it's design.
Found out that McMaster University has a glass blowing shop and will do custom work!
Will design up a tube with a side shaft so that the thermocouple can slide in and be sealed with some high temp sealant.
Will be interesting to find out the cost to make.
Not too complicated and easier for me than building my own board.
May try to build my own board at some stage, just not yet.
So while i was lying in bed last night i came up with a new idea!
Those silicone wrap around heaters have me intrigued.
What i was thinking was:
1- Boro-silicate glass tube
2- flat silicone heater wrapped around the tube (they are good up to 250 degrees C)
Since they can build to order i want to ask to see if they can possibly make a sleeve type heater that i can just slip over the glass tube.
3- Thermocouple above the heater through the side of the glass tube
4- Maybe a Pinnacle sized bullet to load herb into and a delivery tube of sorts, most likely glass.
5- Use glass screens so the only non glass element in the air path would be the thermocouple which will be Stainless Steel. It should be small enough the not give any taste to the vapor.
Here is a quick drawing of the proposed set up, what do you think?
EDIT: Just ordered the PID, SSR and K type Thermocouple.
Still need to order the wrap around heater.
Need to figure out glass tubing diameter, measure the bullets later or make my own?
And i need to figure out how to attach the mouthpiece and it's design.
Found out that McMaster University has a glass blowing shop and will do custom work!
Will design up a tube with a side shaft so that the thermocouple can slide in and be sealed with some high temp sealant.
Will be interesting to find out the cost to make.
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Edward Hyde
Well-Known Member
friend of mine is trying to make a diy mflb...anyone know how u can solder the screen on the bars that attach to the battery?
none of my business, but anyway, imho you really don't want solder there.
i make all my electrical connections with compression fittings, i.e. screws cranked really tight. i would use a couple of copper strips that are screwed together.
i make all my electrical connections with compression fittings, i.e. screws cranked really tight. i would use a couple of copper strips that are screwed together.
Edward Hyde
Well-Known Member
maybe... it's Greek to me... but i think the weld was the main point of failure on the Cloud heater.
lazylathe
Almost there...
Ordered 4 heaters this morning, just in case...!
At a cost of $1,50 each, i thought i could stretch the budget! LOL!
They are 55mmX100mm in size.
So the heaters are a flexible silicone type heater.
They are being sent with special 3M adhesive that can withstand very high temps and since it is not in the air path it should be okay. I will research the MSDS sheets for the adhesive first though.
Then only thing i am confused about is how much wattage i will need for the heater?
I ordered them in 110V 30W configuration, since the Cloud uses a 27W heater i thought this would be okay. Not too sure if this will cause a longer heat up time etc... Will be able to tell when it is all put together.
Now i have to wait for everything to arrive before anything else can be done with the electronics side.
Last night i turned an aluminum holder for Pinnacle bullets, still needs a bit of refining.
Also need to section some more borosilicate test tubes for a stem and mesh screen.
Will upload some pics on the weekend to show progress.
At a cost of $1,50 each, i thought i could stretch the budget! LOL!
They are 55mmX100mm in size.
So the heaters are a flexible silicone type heater.
They are being sent with special 3M adhesive that can withstand very high temps and since it is not in the air path it should be okay. I will research the MSDS sheets for the adhesive first though.
Then only thing i am confused about is how much wattage i will need for the heater?
I ordered them in 110V 30W configuration, since the Cloud uses a 27W heater i thought this would be okay. Not too sure if this will cause a longer heat up time etc... Will be able to tell when it is all put together.
Now i have to wait for everything to arrive before anything else can be done with the electronics side.
Last night i turned an aluminum holder for Pinnacle bullets, still needs a bit of refining.
Also need to section some more borosilicate test tubes for a stem and mesh screen.
Will upload some pics on the weekend to show progress.
I hope they work for you and I am wrong, but I doubt any flexible silicone-encased heater will work for vaporizers. I don't think they have the heat/power per surface area you need. I think you'll have to be running it full blast, and even then, it may not get things hot enough.
Yes, the silicone adjacent to the embedded wires can supposedly withstand 250˚C/485˚F. But considering the large surface area and its poor heat transfer (with the silicone acting as an insulator); and particularly since you haven't even mentioned how this will be insulated -- indicates problems. And you want to "wrap" this silicone heater around the test tube. You'll have to be manually or otherwise winding it tight each time, to get heating surface contact. Or do you think a heater that may at best get to a surface temp. of ≤450˚F is going to heat the tube (and its further insulated inner contents), if there is an air gap/space in between it and the tube? Plus, there would be none of the infrared light/radiant heating from direct exposure to heated wires, as with the Bud Toaster.
Yes, the silicone adjacent to the embedded wires can supposedly withstand 250˚C/485˚F. But considering the large surface area and its poor heat transfer (with the silicone acting as an insulator); and particularly since you haven't even mentioned how this will be insulated -- indicates problems. And you want to "wrap" this silicone heater around the test tube. You'll have to be manually or otherwise winding it tight each time, to get heating surface contact. Or do you think a heater that may at best get to a surface temp. of ≤450˚F is going to heat the tube (and its further insulated inner contents), if there is an air gap/space in between it and the tube? Plus, there would be none of the infrared light/radiant heating from direct exposure to heated wires, as with the Bud Toaster.
lazylathe
Almost there...
Thanks for the input!
Since i am learning about this, there will be mistakes along the way.
I am willing to share everything i do, so any help is appreciated.
The heaters are so cheap, so i thought i would play around with them and see what happens, you never know!
I mentioned above that the heaters will be glued to the test tube using a special 3M adhesive that is non toxic and heat resistant, so no problems keeping the heater in close contact with the test tube.
Just an aside, we use silicone heaters at work to heat special resins.
When the machines were first set up the heaters melted through the 5mm thick plastic that contains the resins. These heaters are able to maintain temps up to 250 Degrees Celsius for 24/7.
If they do not work out as planned i can always change over to a ceramic or nichrome wire heating element.
At least this way i have not cornered myself with electronics that only work with specific items.
As far as insulation, i was thinking of Mica chips, Fine sand, Perlite, Glass wool or something similar.
There are many options!
More to come in the following weeks!
i tried a few insulation materials and i still think a dead air space (no air movement) is the "best" insulation.
Any material that fills the void will simply become heat saturated and eventually transfer the heat to the exterior. i have a 30 ga (0.010" thick) stainless steel sheet (very shiny, not a mirror, but close) that is formed into a cylinder that reflects the heat back into the heater core.
The cylinder is 1.25" diameter and the heater coil is 3/4" diameter. Then, there is a 1/8" air gap between the stainless cylinder and the wood block. the outside of the wood just barely gets warm when running the heater at 440°F for one session of 7.5 minutes, and just noticably warm when i run two sessions in a row -- even less when running at the preferred temp of 380°F.
air is cheaper, too.
lazylathe
Almost there...
Thanks Hippie!!
That is great info and will help a lot!!!
As soon as i have the parts together and tested i will design the housing.
I have been talking to the silicone heater manufacturer and they are saying the heaters can maintain 200 Degrees Celsius over long periods of time. Thinking it may take a while to heat up but once it is there it should be pretty stable.
If they do not work out i can always switch over to a wire element.
That is great info and will help a lot!!!
As soon as i have the parts together and tested i will design the housing.
I have been talking to the silicone heater manufacturer and they are saying the heaters can maintain 200 Degrees Celsius over long periods of time. Thinking it may take a while to heat up but once it is there it should be pretty stable.
If they do not work out i can always switch over to a wire element.
lazylathe
Almost there...
Just in case the silicone heaters do not work out i ordered a Ceramic band heater to try out as a heating element.
It is rated at 800 degrees C continuous use and 110V 300W , so that should work.
If those fail, there is always NiChrome wire elements to fall back on!
Should have all the parts in two weeks time!
Busy doing lots of research into heater types, electrical info etc...
I need to learn about using AC current and converting it into DC current, need to figure out watts, amps etc...
It is rated at 800 degrees C continuous use and 110V 300W , so that should work.
If those fail, there is always NiChrome wire elements to fall back on!
Should have all the parts in two weeks time!
Busy doing lots of research into heater types, electrical info etc...
I need to learn about using AC current and converting it into DC current, need to figure out watts, amps etc...
Buildozer
Baked & Fried
i have wanted to try to make a vape w/ a band heater for a while.. but never got around to it.. also i don't know anything at all about electricity haha.. so i get discouraged easily hah.. good luck!! i can't wait to see how it goes.. you have to be the first person i have heard bring up a band heater on here.. that i have noticed anyway.
lazylathe
Almost there...
Thanks!!
I thought the band heaters looked quite neat!
Here is an easy link to build one and how to connect all the parts:
http://qandabe.com/2011/70-diy-sous-vide-universal-controller/
Same link as above.
You can buy the parts for under $50
lazylathe
Almost there...
Time for some updates!!!
Before i start: Please excuse the ghetto work bench! I know where everything is and it is safe for me!
Working on an all glass air path. Using the short stems from the Vapolution for the herb and the plastic depth discs, all connected by the Vapolution tubing. I am getting a vinyl taste from the tubing and it kind of masks the flavour which is sad... Need to get a AIWB
Not too much going on as i am still waiting on my PID setup to arrive.
So far i have my Silicone heat mats and a bunch or resistors and some metal and wood.
I have however been playing around with some other ideas while i wait for parts!
Up first was using a fish tank heater as the core. It has a ceramic body and Nichrome wire heating elements. Epic fail as it was either way too hot or too cold, no easy way to find a happy medium by just using a dimmer switch. Possibly have another go when all the electronics arrive...
Next up was the silicone heat mats!
I asked for 3M adhesive to be placed on the back because it is supposed to be heat resistant and all those good things. Apparently this might be the Chinese version a sit smoked like crazy and tuned into a brown extremely hard deposit. Took a long time to clean it up and remove the other sticky backings from the other 3 heaters. It is done now and they work a lot better!
The first idea was to wrap the heater around a metal core and have a removable test tube slide in and out, easy to clean and cheap to replace!
This worked okay but it took a long time to heat up and the temps were never stable.
Next up was i removed the metal core and wrapped the heater directly to the test tube. The Vapolution stem fits great in there!
Here you can see the temps being measured inside the straw.
And the temp at the herb level
I need to up the temp a bit because finishing off a small load takes a very long time!
Quite tasty, except for the vinyl...
Before i start: Please excuse the ghetto work bench! I know where everything is and it is safe for me!
Working on an all glass air path. Using the short stems from the Vapolution for the herb and the plastic depth discs, all connected by the Vapolution tubing. I am getting a vinyl taste from the tubing and it kind of masks the flavour which is sad... Need to get a AIWB
Not too much going on as i am still waiting on my PID setup to arrive.
So far i have my Silicone heat mats and a bunch or resistors and some metal and wood.
I have however been playing around with some other ideas while i wait for parts!
Up first was using a fish tank heater as the core. It has a ceramic body and Nichrome wire heating elements. Epic fail as it was either way too hot or too cold, no easy way to find a happy medium by just using a dimmer switch. Possibly have another go when all the electronics arrive...
Next up was the silicone heat mats!
I asked for 3M adhesive to be placed on the back because it is supposed to be heat resistant and all those good things. Apparently this might be the Chinese version a sit smoked like crazy and tuned into a brown extremely hard deposit. Took a long time to clean it up and remove the other sticky backings from the other 3 heaters. It is done now and they work a lot better!
The first idea was to wrap the heater around a metal core and have a removable test tube slide in and out, easy to clean and cheap to replace!
This worked okay but it took a long time to heat up and the temps were never stable.
Next up was i removed the metal core and wrapped the heater directly to the test tube. The Vapolution stem fits great in there!
Here you can see the temps being measured inside the straw.
And the temp at the herb level
I need to up the temp a bit because finishing off a small load takes a very long time!
Quite tasty, except for the vinyl...
This might be a useful table. it shows current required to reach some temperatures for different gauge of nichrome 60.
It comes from here: http://www.heatersplus.com/nichrome.html
i started with 22 gauge, but wanted a more self supporting coil and ended up at 16 gauge. in my case, 100% duty cycle is pulling 12 amps.
AWG Dia." 400F 600 800 1000
(Gauge) 204C 316 427 538
16 0.05 6.13 8.31 10.5 13.11
17 0.05 5.31 7.18 9.13 11.3
18 0.04 4.66 6.26 7.9 9.75
19 0.04 4.09 5.46 6.84 8.41
20 0.03 3.58 4.77 5.92 7.25
21 0.03 3.14 4.16 5.13 6.26
22 0.03 2.76 3.63 4.44 5.4
24 0.02 2.12 2.76 3.32 4.01
well, clearly, trying to do a table really, really sucks in this editor. just check that link if you are interested.
It comes from here: http://www.heatersplus.com/nichrome.html
i started with 22 gauge, but wanted a more self supporting coil and ended up at 16 gauge. in my case, 100% duty cycle is pulling 12 amps.
AWG Dia." 400F 600 800 1000
(Gauge) 204C 316 427 538
16 0.05 6.13 8.31 10.5 13.11
17 0.05 5.31 7.18 9.13 11.3
18 0.04 4.66 6.26 7.9 9.75
19 0.04 4.09 5.46 6.84 8.41
20 0.03 3.58 4.77 5.92 7.25
21 0.03 3.14 4.16 5.13 6.26
22 0.03 2.76 3.63 4.44 5.4
24 0.02 2.12 2.76 3.32 4.01
well, clearly, trying to do a table really, really sucks in this editor. just check that link if you are interested.
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Thanks! Not to derail, but if you have any good starter books/sites, feel free to PM me. Might get to tinkering over the winter.