High and Sober approaching the same state?

Hi,
This is my first post here.
Before anything I should say that this post is targeted mostly towards the recreational users.

After 2.5 years of the occasional toke, I bought a vaporizer 4 months ago. Since that day, I have vaped every single day, 1-4 times everyday. Now, what I've been noticing is that my desire for weed is gradually going down as my sober state becomes more and more like my high state. Before, I would need to vape up to start off the day with action, and I would be very excited about going into the "enlightened state" of vape-high where I would have much more of my brain faculty to call upon. But now, it is as if all those extra faculties (with the exception of the physical sedation) have become a part of my being.

So what is it that weed can do for us that we can't do ourselves?
If it's the broadened meta-states of perception, can't we adjust that ourselves with our own conscious effort to change our perception through belief systems?
If it's the awareness in the moment and the feeling of being alive, can't we just live in the present sober like the Buddhist monk does?
If it's the creativity that helps us overcome our problems in life, can't we just tap into those areas of the brain by having the right attitude and asking the right questions?
If it's the heightened intimacy and sense of oneness with our loved ones and the world, can't we just philosophize our way to realizing the essence of the universe?

Weed expanded my mind immensely over the years, and lead me to mental and emotional grounds that I had never walked on. It made me see life in a more complete way. But now I feel as though that way of looking at life has become a part of me.

So here is the question whose answer may just lead us to a conclusion regarding the necessity of weed itself for its effects:
Would a Buddhist monk gain anything from weed?

theoretically, yes. But in my case, i live in the real world, not in a monastery and although i try, so far i haven't been successful except for a few (very memorable) instances.

welcome to FC!

Maybe a nice tie dye robe instead of those bland orange ones they're always parading around in.

Seriously, I think a Buddhist monk would be the perfect candidate for study with cannabis as they would give us some insight into consciousness that would probably be quite a different experience than westerners.

Ah, fuck it...I'm gonna vape some trainwreck.

All the so-called "Buddhists" I know locally are arrogant, uncharitable and wealthy. They all go to a Buddhist monastery and jock for positions, trying to become the head man's acolytes. It's a pretty culty kind of vipe honestly... I know this is brutally off topic and specific to my town, and doesn't speak on all Buddhists at all.

But I do I think holding up any sort of monk-type, wildman, Sadhu, anchorite/anchoress or the like as a hypothetical beacon of higher-understanding is dangerous and silly, personally.

I envy your optimism.

It seems like my (personal) metaphor of the Buddhist monk representing high virtues has outshined the rest of my post.

This thread is about emotional control, perceptual utilization, philosophy, strength, and character!

EDIT: ....for the COMMON MAN!

Yes, I gained alot from weed.

And don't forget, drugs make you okay with being bored. They should be of great use to religion.

interesting point you bring up, thanks. makes me consider the use of herb as i have been thinking about it recently, and the differing effect it had on me thru the years of use and my growing older.

i first took the herb for recreation purpose (just to get 'stoned'), then discovered that at times, it could offer me another angle to some philosophical insights. now i vape on a semi-regular basis, more regular on weekends but more recently have been thinking that my recreational use doesn't really add anything 'extra' to the day, i don't get that big of a kick anymore from recreational use like i used to do. and thus, i stop from "automatically" reaching for a toke when i got nothing to do, partly because of a need to be in a sober frame of mind to handle my work stuff which i do from home occasionally and partly because i don't need/want to anymore. (i wonder if the term 'getting high' makes me wanna toke more. what if it was called 'getting low', will i want subconsciously want it less?). and the need to feel 'physically sedated' has passed me by as well, i like the 'clean' high that i get from vaping that allows me to work out if i want to. i actually enjoy not getting the couch-lock although once in awhile i still toke a joint.

imho, maybe the use of the herb has bought you to a level of awareness and more use of it cannot get you any more aware. that's how i feel. i take the herb for some insight into personal issue, then when i get the 'knowledge' i don't need the herb anymore and taking more of the herb will not increase my 'knowledge' of the issue. then i tend to take whatever necessary actions after i sober up, and i am secure that the additional knowledge given by the herb has already been 'cemented' into my psyche.

My lady, who has a busy work lifestyle doesn't indulge in all this 'mumbo jumbo' insight stuff and she just wants to get away from the 'work mind' when she comes back. now, she doesn't have the patience of a buddhist monk to meditate n stuff so a quick vape session will do the deed. to her, it's just a nice way of escaping the hussle n bussle of the daily crap. maybe a bit like a glass of wine for some people.

what i like about the recreational use is when i wanna get 'jiggy' with my lady, then at night some herb and wine is great for relaxation. of course, it's great to vape when i got friends around too but other than that, i think it is pretty useful for increasing my insight to some personal issue i may have rather than just getting stoned.

regarding your question on buddhist monks, i can't answer that but i think in Nepal they have monks/high priest in temples that smoke the good hash stuff, so the herb must be useful to them in some way. Music sure sounds better when i am high, so maybe they take it to hear the mountain winds more clearly. or maybe they are just plain bored......

Some Sadhus, who are obviously Hindu, not Buddhist, spend all their time smoking charas out of massive chillums. And begging for money from working people, so they can get more charas.

So true for Indian Sadhus! And many Buddhist monks in South East Asia use cannabis extensively (smoke in bamboo or ceramic pipes/bongs, edibles, Black Bombay -50/50 hash & OP-, etc...): Birmania, Cambodia, Nepal, Thailand, VietNam...
Damm, the best & easiest source for MJ when I was over there was the nearest temple around!

there were stories about them giving acid to some of the buddhist monk types over there in the sixties and at least some of the monks being totally unfazed by it.

never was entirely sure it was true, but i give it some credence.

when i first toked herb i began the "herb is amazing" feeling but after a while i started noticing what you describe as the altered state of consciousness merging with what i call baseline reality and came to a new conclusion i still hold...the mind is a powerful and amazing thing.

my brain benefits from the effects of herb however the potential for expansion lies in the mind, not the herb. the real amazing thing to me is the mind, herb just a tool to help open the doors and once you get enough doors opened what is inside these rooms are available at any time. its like borrowing the keys vs being given them.

i can induce a high experience without weed now, takes some patience and concentration...not hard concentration but instead peaceful, meaningful and uninterrupted. however the real herb high (one that cannot be turned off easily and wanders in heavy movements) is never replaced by pure mind activity for me, it seems that experience is reserved.

(sure hope at least some of that made sense, my take on it at least)

I read that about one particular monk in the book, "Be Here Now."

If you can't appreciate sobriety you can't appreciate highs produced by cannabis, alcohol, or whatever your proclivity.

I feel like all psychedelics, cannabis being the mildest, let you just live in the moment. You can see everything for what it really is, not biased by your past or history or views on things. With a strong psychedelic your ego and consciousness can be completely separated, cannabis only mildly, but its all the same concept to me. And its what monks do when they meditate, only they do it naturally. Entheogens, or mind expanding plants, let you forget of this existence, your physical body, and just experience things in the purest state of universal concoisness. I think thats what these plants are for, to show humans a concept, but you must learn to do it naturally, these plants can only show you the door, you must walk through it blah blah blah. I really think this all has something to do with the illegality of psychedelics and cannabis. Its a conspiracy! They don't want us to know the truth!

What if entheogens are a way for a larger scale consciousness to actively influence human behavior? Something like the gaia hypothesis combined with The Botany of Desire (which is an excellent film). Think of it like the plants want/need something from humanity that they are not able to do naturally, so they interact with the environment chemically to produce physical effects not otherwise possible. And i tend to believe that entheogen producing plants are more evolved than all other plants. They are influencing humans (arguably the most complex species on earth), in profound ways, psychologically, physiologically, politically, etc. and vice versa. they get to use us as their physically mobile tools so to speak, in exchange for certain desirable chemicals on our part. It just goes to show how interconnected life is on earth and teaches us humans that there could be levels of consciousness that we cannot perceive, or recognize due to their higher evolutionary complexity or due to us being so tied in to natures structure that its very hard for people to see natures framework, for example fractals. Logically its more effective to take a hike up the hill to observe the valley as a whole compared to being in the mob roaming the streets. I think entheogens can help you get the motivation to take the hike, but not magically take you to the hill. They only show you the doors so to speak, the doors of consciousness, from which you can choose from an infinite number of paths that all lead to infinity. With an infinite number of doors you can choose on the way to infinity and etc.

i might argue that we are not the most complex, but i will agree that we are the most conscious beings and therefore likely more able to accept the alterations of consciousness the plants can help provide.

i feel its somehow in our code (dna, genes) to learn all there is about us and around us. all things in nature (universe) i also feel have this path, we are currently the ones down the path the furthest but this could change in another half million years. to know of thyself is likely the greatest journey one can ever make and we are making that for the cosmos, since we are part of it...a way for cosmos to be conscious of itself.

I can't say that using a vaporizer even rather often/daily is anything like being sober.

I don't think its so much about using a vaporizer, so much as a discussion on the tolerance created from continued consumption of thc, and the other active cannabinoids we consume.

I have gotten to points where cannabinoid consumption becomes more normal feeling and less exciting. However taking tolerance breaks has always made it fun again. Not sure if I can continue this my whole life, but I sure hope so!

Wow man. Good topic. I am sort of getting to that point too, where sober and high is kind of one. I'm not quite there yet but i think that's where I am headed.

I really believe all plants and living things on earth have a consciousness like us. Yeah they really do have an agenda I think thats why the cannabis plant developed THC not just for self defense, but alter the consciousness of its user. Watcch the movie the botony of desire like a user said.

I watched the Botany of Desire last night and it was awesome! Completely changes the perspective of adaptation and our perceived control on nature. Thanks for recommending! BTW fascinating question OP, I'd like to hear others thoughts on this topic as well. I don't think I've been smoking nearly long enough to have an opinion on the subject.

Yeah after a while of vaping, you'll really start to question things, I mean we take journeys to the least understood or hardest place to go to so often it becomes where some live, a different state of counciousness that is. Why do you think most people shy away from it or only do it a few times in there life, they're scared of getting completely swallowed up in that different unfamiliar state of consciousness again. We are like soldiers, when you understand and grasp a different state of consciousness just as much as you do the most prevalent base consciousness...you really can do anything, or at least are afraid of nothing.

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