Discussion in 'Plug-in Vaporizers' started by Hudsonrulez, Nov 9, 2008.
Nice to see some happy herbalAire owners enjoying water cooled clouds.
did you remember one of my first post vtac ...the one with my herbalair fit to my old gear ? I'm not able to find it back ....damn it make a year of that !!! it was working like a charm
I read on a forum a few weeks ago about someone who used a much more powerful pump and bigger bags and apparently the vapour quality was the same. After using the HA and being a bit of an electronics nerd, I get the impression that there is some quite precise temperature control going on in there. Somehow it seems pretty tight, and I think it'll adjust for pretty much anything you throw at it within reason.
I also can't work out why the designers made the airflow path so restrictive. I tried using some plastic tubing over the main mouthpiece, but I hated the smell and taste of it. Funny thing is I've tried this brand before (smaller diameter) and it was ok. Despite that, I can feel it's less restrictive to the point of feeling a bit more natural, so I thought getting the best quality tubing would be worth it.
One thing I'm a bit concerned about with the waterpipe idea is that electricity + water = bad. I don't know how I can design it to guarantee that water could never enter the crucible area.
Anyway Auralis, I'm glad to hear you've had good results so I'm definitely interested. I'll try to get the direct draw method with just some decent tubing worked out first.
This idea with the tubing looks promising. I was having trouble figuring it out, so I found Auralis' post on another board. Now it makes sense.
Oh, and it reminded me of a possible reason I get such good hits out of the direct-draw method. I ignore that insanity about not grinding the herb. I've tried not grinding, and other than a marginal improvement in taste, I just don't understand why they recommend this. Even ground, it tastes somewhere around 4.3 billion times better than smoke.
Max, did you use ground, or whole herb?
One designer-Bohdan Petyhyrycz. Email him if you're really curious. He'll answer. He's a nice guy (firstname.lastname@example.org).
My The 18 tiny inlet holes are responsible for the excellent efficiency. The narrow air path of the mouthpiece/extension may be more about ease of bag attachment than anything else, but I do think it helps provide thicker vapor. Bohdan wanted efficiency and also wanted to allow thick vapor production. While a more powerful pump can be used, it will definitely decrease the vapor/air ratio, even though the temp controller can handle the difference.
A lot of people complain about the slow fill time on the herbalAire vs. the Volcano, but it's a smaller unit and less than half the price. You have to compromise somewhere. I've been very happy with the herbie as a bag filler. I have gotten a little impatient at times, waiting for a bag to fill, but since multiple bags are easier and cheaper on this unit vs. the 'cano, a lot of times I'll switch out the bag when it's half full and just pop on another.
Thanks Max, your explanation makes sense. I think I would prefer thicker vapour than a faster fill. I'm not in a hurry anyway! For me this is a minor point compared to all the things I like about the HA. There's no way I would get a Volcano.
Yeah hazy, I hear you about the Volcano. Whenever I hear the Dopefiend talk about the Volcano on his podcast, calling it the Rolls Royce or Lambo-Diablo of vaporizers I always think, "well I wouldn't buy a RR or Lambo either. Even if I could afford it."
But as we all know, different strokes for different folks.
For the bag filling with the HerbalAire, what I did before I started using the Extreme for bags, is have some small anslinger-only bags and some big visitors + anslinger bags.
The big bags took forever to fill, so if the visitors knew how to use the Vapor Genie in the meantime so much the better.
You know, I don't remember ever hearing/seeing any herbie or extreme owners say, 'yeah, it's OK but I can't wait 'til I have enough $ to buy a Volcano.' I'm sure some have moved up to a 'cano and been happy, but damn, a bag o'vapor is a bag o'vapor, and I would not be happy paying $240-290 more and losing direct draw. If someone gave me a 'cano I wouldn't even unbox it. I'd have it on an eBay auction the next day. I too get really sick of people saying stuff like 'nothing comes close to the Volcano' . For me it's more like 'nothing comes close to being as overpriced as the Volcano'. :/
I have to admit I haven't been paying much attention to the social side of things as I usually have a pretty quiet life and modest vapour requirements. I'm going to a low-key birthday party tomorrow and I'll be taking the HA along, so I'll get the chance to see how much of a pain in the arse it is to fill bags in that environment.
Even if I bought into the notion that the Volcano is better than all other vaporizers; a lot of these 'cano fans suggest that there are no other vapes that can even provide a satisfying experience. I'd like to know what other vaporizers those folks have used. Even my old Inavap and Fog King were far better than smoking. And I eagarly and willingly smoked for a long time.
Ever hear the old, "have you seen a doctor about that cough?"
I agree about the Volcano. I've used one a few times, most recently in Amsterdam, and the hits just weren't nearly as tasty as those I get from my HA or even Da Buddha. I don't really like the bag method that well. It's a style thing, I'm sure you're getting just as high from both but it's just... I don't know, the feeling's gone.
As for water getting up the tube - I don't really see how it would. If you're using a long enough tube, first of all it should connect to the top of the HA, and then bow down into the bong or hookah. Unless you're really awful at using it, the bowl of a bong or hookah never gets wet. Therefore I find it highly unlikely that water could ever make its way all the way through where the bowl normally is, up the tube, and into the HA. It doesn't happen with the SSV (they sell a bong attachment) and I've never had anything close to that happening. I think even if I blew into the bong as hard as I could, I couldn't get water up there.
I would write the water off as a non-issue. As for the tubing, it shouldn't be giving off a taste. Maybe a bad brand?
A lot have used nothing else, or maybe one experience with a whip vape, which maybe didn't please them because they got the nasty tasting tail end of a bowl, or they didn't get a good hit for lack of experience with a whip. :/ Some are just doing the 'cano rave to justify the $ they spent on it.
Yep. I have no problem with someone liking and buying a 'cano, just don't try to tell me it provides some kind of nirvana-like experience that no other vape can deliver.
Well I passed around the vapour bags on the weekend, and it wasn't too bad. My friends were patient, but a couple of them still wanted to go and smoke a joint anyway, because that's what they're used to. I think everyone was pleased with the herbalaire, but I can see that it could get tedious with a larger group.
I will try the waterpipe idea when I get some silicone tube. I'll admit to being a bit paranoid about water getting into the vapouriser.
This is my first post and I just wanted to say that I own a HerbalAire and I love it!
I just tried the bong thing. The tubing I had on hand wasn't the right size so I replaced the main mouthpiece with metal pipe parts and rigged the tubing up to two Extreme mouthpieces (one of each kind, joined by short <1" length of tubing).
Anyway, pretty ghetto, but I was just testing the concept. It works. It's cool. My version right now isn't even air tight. It's still cool.
I just turned the HA up all the way. The heat never bothered me to begin with. I actually think it might be a contributor to that feeling of lung satisfaction I get. Not to romanticize scorching my lungs...
When I do this for real, I'll try lower temps.
Welcome to the forum GreenJon.
It's nice to have some happy herbie owners here.
I was checking out the HerbalAire 2.1 on the GreatVape.com site: http://greatvape.com/items/vaporizers/herbalaire-h2-1-ha200-detail.htm
I see there it says that it comes with a 'whip kit'. Has anybody tried this? I have read on here that putting your mouth directly on the mouthpiece actually sometimes makes your mouth too hot and the inhaled vapor is too hot as well so it burns your throat.
So I see mention of this 'whip kit' on the website but I can't find any information elsewhere online about it?
also, I know that the HerbalAire has a very weak air pump. I actually have a Whisper 60 fish tank air pump which I am no longer using. I heard if you hook this pump up that bags will fill in about 40 seconds.. about the same as what the Volcano and Extreme do. Besides that I don't see any other shortcomings mentioned about the HerbalAire 2.1 In fact given a stronger pump and some sort of a whip, it appears that the HerbalAire is the best out there... I heard it's more efficient that the Extreme and Volcano too. Something to do with the fact that is uses 18 tiny air holes and also that the air is 'pulsated' through the holes instead of blowing in a steady flow such as the volcano and extreme fans do. I know my Whisper 60 fish tank pump 'pulsates' the air flow.
Anyhow, just looking for more comments on the above. I am really stuck between ordering the Extreme or the HerbalAire. I do like the fact that the HerbalAire is smaller, built better, has an external pump, can be used withOUT a pump at all for direct draw, plus it just seems like a less complicated design and will be more robust. Oh and it's $50 cheaper.
Some people hit it directly from the main mouthpiece. I've done it myself. Pretty warm yes, but burn, no. If you want a cooler draw just add some tubing to the extension or the mouthpiece itself.
Using a stronger pump will give you thinner vapor. You don't get less vapor from the bowl, you just have to use more bags to get it all. This will also compromise the taste, if you care about that factor. I find a better solution is to make different size bags. Make a smaller one and use that first. It's ready to use pretty quick. Then put on a larger bag to fill while you're hitting the first one. A stronger pump, producing thinner vapor due to increased airflow, will also tend to counteract the efficiency, since you're more likely to think the bowl is done before it really is. Even with the standard pump, I find (after 2+ years of use) myself sometimes doubting that the 2nd, 3rd, 4th bag (depending on the amount loaded in the bowl) really has any vapor in it. We tend to think in terms of visible vapor-what we can see in a bag and on exhale. In reality, unless you're in excellent lighting to see vapor, it tends to be somewhat invisible unless it's really thick.
Yes it's very efficient, and the 18 little holes are a big part of the reason.
I've never heard this. I don't know why pulsation would be any advantage. I'll ask herbalAire about this and let you know the answer.
I can't speak for anyone else, and I'll admit I'm particularly sensitive to heat. I find that the mouthpiece gets way too hot for me. The vapour is also too hot, even out of the longer mouthpiece extension that was supplied to me by herbalaire. My throat was irritated for several days after using it. I'm sticking with the bags for now. The bag filling time is really a non-issue, unless you've got a roomful of people waiting to get high. It's more of a personal vape than a party machine. The size and build quality are nice, it can be held comfortably in one hand.
I'm very interested in the whip kit, but that website doesn't give any details about it, and they don't ship internationally.
yes talk to the guy at GreatVape.com he is the ONLY person that is carrying the new whip. Plus he has new better bags for the HerbalAire. I can't wait to get mine and try it out.
oh what I heard about the pulsating air is that the slight pulses actually permeate the herb better which is a big reason why you don't need to grind the herb first for use in the HerbalAire. The others like the Extreme and Volcano have fans that are just blowing a constant stream of air over your herb.. the pulsating of the HerbalAire I understand has better penetration into the herb thus results in greater efficiency.
hebalAire has changed their heavy bags to lighter ones more like the 'cano bags. I'm sure most dealers have the new ones, if Greatvape does. Toppits/Volcano bags are a much better deal (eBay-about $18 for 4 boxes) unless you need the connectors that come with herbie bags.
You may well be correct about the pulsating air, but the small herbie bowl and 18 tiny inlet holes are responsible for the herbie's efficiency as well. The 'cano has a large bowl with greater surface area that needs exposure, as does the Extreme. My experience with the Extreme is only as direct draw (V-Tower), but the airflow through the bowl is the same either way, and I don't give it high marks for efficiency compared to the herbalAire. And not having to grind herb for this vape is one of the things I like best about it.
You're absolutely right about that - I'm not sure what the pulsating would actually do, and if it would really help, but I use my HA almost exclusively with a whip and it's still far more efficient than my buddy's DBV. I believe it has a lot to do with the holes and the fact that if you take a strong pull, it will raise the herb up against the top screen, then if you pulsate your breath or even just let it down, it'll fall back down, thus mixing the herb around. That's one of the greatest arguments for packing loose and grinding, however I haven't actually noticed a large difference between when I grind and when I don't, except that ground herb tends to vaporize faster, but I don't know for sure if that means I get more vapor out of it. An un-ground bowl will last far longer and I prefer that if it's being passed around a lot.
Don't bother with the "whip kit", just simply measure the diameter of the main mouthpiece and go to Lowe's or another store that carries FDA tubing and buy some that will fit. The thinner the tubing, the better, so it'll flex. There you go, whip accomplished. You can also use the tubing that goes from the pump into the HA, turn it around, and fit it onto one of the straws. That works decently but I prefer the larger airflow provided by larger tubing without the thickness of the straw blocking airflow.
Long story short, it's the way to go IMO. I love this vape and I'll definitely be keeping it until it dies. I love the efficiency, small size, and the relative durability. I've dropped it now and then and it's been fine, although I obviously wouldn't recommend it. The bowls, "crucibles" they call them, are very thin so they cool off fast, so they're very fragile. Watch out for those.
I have crossed the floor and joined the herbalaire party. Used to swear by my V-Tower. Here's why I switched:
V-tower is made of with glass. This makes it taste great! But:
I vape outside. I live near a lake. It gets cold.
Because of that, at times the V-tower's glass components shatter due to temperature fluctuations. So I send it in, pay a little money and it gets fixed, okay, no problem, just a small fee. But the last time it dropped because the stand had gotten too loose (I had a bad habit of holding it by the stand), and I thought "Maybe I can do better".
So the next time I went to my fave vape lounge, I tried the herbalaire as a whip. Not as tasty as the V-tower, or my memory of it anyway. But MAN, the stone was money. Compared to the volcano as a bag, slower, but the bags are more potent.
Durability and an actual thermostat on board won the day.
In the interests of the environment, I will get my V-tower repaired one more time, and give it to a friend.
So you find it's ok using the whip? It works, but I didn't like the restricted flow. Maybe I'm just weak. I like the bags though, the flavour's pretty good, although I haven't tried an all glass setup. Durability seems great, I never worry about knocking it over. I actually treat my PD more gently because of the wood finish.
I have an HA as well and love it for its design, durability, size, superb overall efficiency, vape flavor, intuitive heat control and ease of use.
I also found that a small coleman cooler with foam cutouts works well for stealth transportability...
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