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Help for mom of autistic child--phone call?

Discussion in 'Medical Discussion' started by MinnBobber, Feb 27, 2018.

  1. MinnBobber

    MinnBobber Well-Known Member

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    4,041
    Hi,
    is there any mom of an autistic child that can chat with a mom who is probably scared about letting her 13 year old daughter try medical cannabis?

    It's my brother's significant other who has a 13 year old with autism spectrum disorder.
    I've been working thru him for ages and she is now "not totally opposed" to it---a giant first step.
    I go thru him and have passed on articles, research, personal stories, etc but think a personal contact may work best to push her over the brink--the good brink to trying med cannabis.

    -- I'm really thinking a mom who has been thru the experience would be most effective???

    They live in San Jose area, so are there any dispensary resources with such information? I have no idea about contacts there---are there nearby dispensaries with some kind of outreach/ info services?

    I've given info and continue, but personal experience would be potent.

    She's not even ready for this yet---as she is digesting some of the things I passed on.

    Any info would also be greatly appreciated---not so much scientific but personal stories online or good videos that tell the story of the miracle that can onfold with cannabis.

    I go to all our state Med Cannabis mtgs and have talked with many many such moms but know none personally. Their stories include words like, amazing, miraculous, like a different child, 10 year old smiled at dad for first time ever, child now in regular school for first time ever, child now has a neighborhood friend whereas they never had one before, child spoke for the first time etc etc.

    P.S. she is Vietnamese American so someone familiar with that culture is a plus----I think her extended family is likely against cannabis/ views it as worse than opium ???

    Appreciate any help or ideas as cannabis should really be the first option, not the last
     
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  2. Boden

    Boden Aspie polymath

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    Will an aspie do?

    1. There are no miracles just baby steps.

    2. I would not let a adolescent person use Cannabis. Their brain is not fully formed until they are in their mid 20s.

    With that said, a 13 year old is going to be a pain in the ass no matter what. I understand the temptation to medicate. She’s not broken just different. The vast majority of autistic people I know (and it’s a lot) wish people would stop trying to fix them.

    For a person that age I would only use it in cases of trauma mitigation.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2018
  3. MinnBobber

    MinnBobber Well-Known Member

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    @Boden, thanks for your perspective, but after hearing testimony from dozens of cannabis moms and talking to them, and reading every research study I can find, and communication with multiple autism groups and families , and understanding how the EndoCannabinoidSystem (ECS) works, etc etc---cannabis is clearly the best possible treatment there is for autism.
    There is currently nothing else that comes remotely close.

    Current autism drugs for kids don't even deal with the problem just the anxiety symptom. The rest are experimental drugs with known bad bad side effects that are used for other diseases and the manuf just got permission to try them as an experiment. VS current knowledge of cannabis and autism = ditch the pharma-crap and try cannabis.

    Nothing personal, but totally disagree with you :)
    P.S, study showing cannabis bad for developing brains is very "suspect".

    Autism spectrum disorder is the "kissing cousin" of epilspesy as about 1/3 of the kids with autism also have epilepsy.
    Have you seen the incredible results for kids with epilepsy, from 100 plus seizures a day to one a month or less was one mom's personal story. Would you really not give caannabis to kids with epilepsy??

    The research is there, but so is the stigma and the lies and misinformation :(
     
  4. Boden

    Boden Aspie polymath

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    There is no need for a treatment for autism.

    Be careful telling an autistic kid they need to be fixed.

    The outcome is never beneficial.
     
  5. MinnBobber

    MinnBobber Well-Known Member

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    4,041
    ..................................................................................................
    Your opinion does not match at all with what thousands of mom's have been saying, unless they are lying :shrug:
    They have all said that when the kids were finally able to start to communicate--they expressed , in their own way, a kind of gratitude like "you can finally hear me" kind of communication. etc

    So "the outcome is never beneficial" baffles me. That would mean that if you asked these kids that were dramatically changed by medical cannabis , "would you like to go back to that world", they'd say yes. Moms relate just the opposite---they are glad to not be there anymore.

    Back on topic please, any volunteers with autistic experience that could possibly talk to a mom who has doubts or questions?
     
    RUDE BOY likes this.
  6. Boden

    Boden Aspie polymath

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    I’m not saying don’t try and see if it helps. I’m saying be careful, with good intentions you can do damage.

    Imagine this. You are a religious person. Propensity to be religious is based in a persons neurochemistry. Because of that lots of people think you need to be fixed.

    You don’t feel broken. You learn to distrust the people trying to fix you.

    Good luck.
     
    Ramahs likes this.
  7. uncanni

    uncanni Well-Known Member

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    dirty south
    I agree completely; there are so many medicinal uses of cannabis for children; it's certainly not all about getting high--especially with high CBD strains, so good for seizures, etc.

    MinnBobber, I wish you the best of luck finding who you need to talk to!
     
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  8. OldNewbie

    OldNewbie Well-Known Member

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    Astonishing it may be for some to believe, while I have an opinion on the medical effects of cannabis on Autism and on the medical risk to cannabis in adolescents, I will decline as it is only an opinion. I am well aware of the mainstream thought on Autism and my wife has been involved with the community in policy, research and reality for decades and cannabis is not a "medically accepted" treatment.

    Because of that, the legal issue of a parent giving cannabis to their (disabled or differently able) teen needs to be addressed. I encourage anyone contemplating it or informing another contemplating it to get legal advice from a family attorney before embarking on the path.

    Not only can the parent have their child taken from them, but also that parent can go to prison for child abuse. If The Man determines it is child abuse, the person who communicated with the parent about the plan has another legal description--co-conspirator. I don't know of any cases where a treatment without a death has caused such treatment as I've only seen the charging on heavy drugs that caused a death. Hopefully, the teen is not going to drive and hurt someone or commit suicide under the influence where the charge might be filed. It's just that one should go into the situation with fully informed awareness of legal risk.

    The state has long ago determined they are better at making decisions for our children than the parent is. While we might argue if they are right or not in any particular situation, they certainly have the power. The internet is full of the stories of outrageous child protective services actions. Many of us have heard of such CPS abuse from friend's stories too. (Often in a divorce.) It is not a defense to child abuse for a parent to think they were doing what was right for a child. Otherwise, beating a child to get him on the straight path would be allowed no matter the force--as long as the parent thought he was doing good.

    I also understand the feeling of a parent with a child with autism. The overwhelming desire to fix things and look to anything that might help. The fear and hopelessness one feels when looking for a rope to grab on to. People giving advice to someone so overwhelmed should make sure they don't lead the process.
     
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  9. MinnBobber

    MinnBobber Well-Known Member

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    Thansk @OldNewbie ,

    Yes, I'm well aware as I've talked to a few families that actually uprooted their lives in MN to move to CO to get the medicine their child desperately needed---tragic. And all to avoid those legal probs you mentioned---like having their child ripped away from them.
    Most were fams with epilepsy kids---where cannabis can have overnight miraculous results.

    Luckily, bro is in CA, San Jose so legal situation is at least much better than here in MN

    Thanks
     
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  10. nosmoking

    nosmoking Fogmonger

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    Autism is a very broad spectrum. I am curious as to what benefits your seeking from cannabis for this 13 year old. What benefits do you know of? What benefits are you hoping for? Are you just hoping it takes the 13 year old a kittle further up the functional side of the spectrum?

    I am just not sure I understand. Autism is a cognitive disability and as far as I understand cannabis is not going to fix cognitive behavior. I have often imagined how my Special Olympics athletes I train would act on cannabis, however I never thought that cannabis would improve their functionability or anything else for that matter.

    Please notice that I am not saying cannabis won't do anything for cognitive disabilities, but I am not sure I follow what your expecting because you really have not elaborated on the degree of autism or what difficulties of the disability are you trying to overcome.
     
  11. OldNewbie

    OldNewbie Well-Known Member

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    I assure you with actual knowledge, CA is not going to just accept a parent providing their autistic child cannabis. It is an illegal act to do so (Even in the regulatory "legalization" regime.) and the state is not going to just allow it. The parent should be aware the child's doctor, teachers and any of a number of professionals they may interact with are all mandated reporters. At some point, someone is going to find out. They still take kids from PARENTS who use cannabis here.
     
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  12. MinnBobber

    MinnBobber Well-Known Member

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    ............................................................

    thanks @OldNewbie

    I had no idea CA was doing that. That is crazy and beyond crazy. So let me get this straight,
    1. can kids in CA can get med cannabis for certain conditions?

    Are you saying CA kids have no access to med cannabis?
    What is the exact status of kids and med cannabis in CA, is there some legal access?
    MN families moved to CO for their kids

    sorry for the misunderstanding as I thought CA had to be beyond that BS????
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2018
  13. OldNewbie

    OldNewbie Well-Known Member

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    Maybe. It is not an easy question and it has not played out in the courts so there is no authoritative answer.

    Some might say there is no specific exclusion of minors in the initiatives covering medical cannabis. However, a couple of years ago (before 215), there was only one doctor in the state that recommended it for medical conditions to under 18. (Bonnie Goldstein of Canna-Centers)

    The main recommendation has to do with ADHD and there are a number of minors that have ID cards (with permission of parents) allowing use. However, the parent will have to find a doctor that recommends and that is where the problem lies. You need a real recommendation, not one of those you get by a minute or two on Skype. Since it is almost assuredly going to be reviewed by a person in power, the parent must make sure the doctor will defend the recommendation if it ever gets to court.

    CA is probably one of the most enlightened on the use of medical marijuana in the U.S. Giving kids cannabis for problems that may or may not help is still a bit further than many will go--even if they believe in the movement in theory. CPS is worse.

    http://www.canorml.org/medical-marijuana/patients-guide-to-california-law
    CAN I GROW OR USE MEDICAL MARIJUANA WITH CHILDREN IN THE HOUSE?
    There is nothing in state law against this. However it's advised to keep your medical marijuana away from children. Make sure that you don't leave edibles around where kids can get them, and keep gardens away from where they play.

    In rare cases Child Protective Services has become involved, mostly in cases with large plant numbers, evidence of sales, neglect, or messy divorce proceedings. In such cases, CPS tends not to be understanding about medical marijuana and can always allege child endangerment.​
     
  14. His_Highness

    His_Highness In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king

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  15. Kosherbubba

    Kosherbubba Active Member

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    For seizures yes. Kids can be prescribed cannabis. Not sure about autism sprectrum. Just remember that if kids use under the age of 25 years they may be more likely to develop pychosis especially if they have a family member with pychosis. But I am sure you can get it prescribed, I would stick to the cbd sativa strains for a child with autism but your doctor knows best.

    Cannabis worse than opuim . no way. Its a mild natural drug. Opium worse than cannabis absolutley.
     
  16. MinnBobber

    MinnBobber Well-Known Member

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    From CA NORML sunmary of law:

    WHAT ABOUT MINORS?
    Patients under 18 should have parental consent.

    So it appears that CA does allow medical cannabis for minors.

    Another summary from CA's first Dr writing med RX for kids:

    “The CUA (Compassionate Use Act of 1996) does not exclude minors. Moreover, the MMP (Medical Marijuana Program) clarifies that minors are covered by the CUA and can obtain identity cards with the consent of their parents or guardians. (Health and Safety Code 11362.715) However, a physician should proceed cautiously. The physician should ensure that:

    1.) the parents or guardians are fully informed about the risks and benefits of medical cannabis and give their consent to such treatment;

    2.) the minor has a serious medical condition; and

    3.) all conventional treatments have been tried unsuccessfully, or considered and rejected (e.g. because of probable unacceptable side effects), before recommending the use of medicinal cannabis.”
     
  17. Kosherbubba

    Kosherbubba Active Member

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    Location:
    Toronto, ON
    In many cases the risks will outweight the benifits

    Click to play YouTube Video
     
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  18. MinnBobber

    MinnBobber Well-Known Member

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    ?? don't you mean the benefits outweigh the risks??? Like a million : 1 ???
     
  19. Kosherbubba

    Kosherbubba Active Member

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    Location:
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    yes that is what I meant benifits outweigh the risks they are low, but where did you get a million in one. If anyone under the age of 25 has a family history of psychosis or schizophrenia the THC is going to speed up the process of getting the disorder, especially if they have a genetic predisposition. However, I have heard that CBD strains actually help people diagnosed with pychosis or schizophrenia. There simply is not enough research out there. I am hoping that with legalization accross Canada everyone will be getting a plethora of research out there, good and bad. If the girl above does not have a genetic predisposition to pychosis I would 120 percent go for cannabis as alternative treatment. The benifit of taking cannabis to treat or help her with the autism spectrum disorder will outweigh the risk even if she has a gentic predispositon to pychosis.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2018
  20. C No Ego

    C No Ego Well-Known Member

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    maybe at the site patients out of time or other websites like that you might have better luck @MinnBobber finding someone.... this thread turned into DARE very quickly...

    there is a magic cannabis dosage for Kids- its called microdose... usually when medicating a kid ( or anyone) you are filling in an endocannabinoid void that exists... endocannabinoid tone is determined mainly by diet and very particular essential fats in your diet.... hardly anyone focuses on it so = lower endocannabinoid expression throughout the entire communities who choose not to focus on this... All of America basically

    even raw cannabis helps autism--- and its non psychoactive!!!
     
    MinnBobber likes this.
  21. Kosherbubba

    Kosherbubba Active Member

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    Location:
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    Which is why CBD strains are the ones that help children. Avidekal and Midnight from Tikun Olum, is given to children with many conditions such as siezures, pain, and autism to name a few. This is because the strain is a powerful CBD with very little psychoactive components. The only negative or drawback that I mentioneed is a high THC strain will and can affect the developing mind under the age of 25, especially if they have a predisposition to physchosis. But even if the child has a genetic predisposition to psychosis, depending on how functional the child is, Cannabis with the correct strain will have more benifits than a possible risk of developing pychosis. And I do agre microdosing is the key here. Even microdosing high THC strains is the way to go medically. Many people find that if the microdose it works way better than macrodosing. I know for sure if all conventional medicines did not work, I would 120 percent , administer cannabis to my child if there was a chance of improvement in their condition. Cannabis is the lightest, least dangerous medicine out there and the least harmful than any pharmacuetical drugs. I would rather give my child cannabis than some of the pharmacuetical drugs out there which are deadly!
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2018
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  22. chris 71

    chris 71 Well-Known Member

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    i dont necessarily believe this as fact . ..
     
  23. C No Ego

    C No Ego Well-Known Member

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    thank you- I am not into that psychotic belief... sorry... the psycho-activity of any cannabis molecules are metabolically driven... that does not equate to psychosis just increased cellular metabolism in the CNS.. most issues with cannabis use is found from smoking it and decreasing available FAAH... this happens in teens too if they smoke and constantly hold in their breath = not good.... that though does not have any thing to do with psychosis... though not getting oxygen to the brain can cause psychosis IMO...

    CBD simply acts on different parts of the endocannabinoid system.... all cannabis molecules have some type medical use just from how cannabinoids are shaped/formed determining effects.... Ideally no highly active psychoactive compounds would be a goal for kids but if their ailment is in the brain then only certain bio-available compounds will have effect in that region... thc, thcv, even CBD is psychoactive ( access through blood brain barrier) just that CBD does not directly agonize cannabinoid receptors but is an antagonistic compound instead hence the lack of observable psycho activity... but cbd makes it through the blood brain barrier ( CBD-a does not) and accesses the brain = psycho activity... because cbd tends to act on immune system it reaches/effects the brain through immunological channels and not directly like thc etc...

    putting someone on high dose marinol ( synthetic THC ) taking it all the time would cause them to go psychotic IMO... joke, but could be because of how horribly marinol metabolizes without an entourage as provided from a whole plant source... whole plant means way better metabolism
     
    uncanni likes this.
  24. Kosherbubba

    Kosherbubba Active Member

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    I feel the only definitive research out there already proves that THC can cause Pychosis in young growing minds. Its one of the only negative side effects. Cannabis does not cause pychosis, but it can trigger it or bring it on in an individual with a risk of pychosis.
     
  25. C No Ego

    C No Ego Well-Known Member

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    people with psychosis have been drawn to seek out cannabis and use it.... recreational cannabis with only thc etc.... and it calms them and makes psychosis less a problem... there has never been a case of iot causing psychosis... people may feel confused with to much thc but that's not psychotic... you would see psychotic people roaming the streets of Colorado and Washington by now if cannabis caused some one to be psychotic... I mean like straight jacket stuff where you see nurses running after them trying to contain the psychotic people on the streets = its not happening and never will
     

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