Hell in a Handbasket - an experiment

Deleted Member 1643

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Recently, in another thread, provoked heated discussion by espousing an "antinatalist" viewpoint. Not an expert (most of the points made were from a 1974 episode of "All in the Family"), but antinatalism appears to be the idea that maybe it's okay to sit out reproduction, because overpopulation exacerbates every existential crisis we face as a species.

Interesting for a number of reasons, perhaps the most important of which being that people with opposing viewpoints were (eventually) able to talk to each other civilly. Clearly a prerequisite if we're ever to solve any of those existential crises.

Another worthwhile outcome was understanding that existential crises are nothing new. In 1974, overpopulation and ozone depletion were among those Norman Lear and his writers addressed. Despite our population doubling, forty-five years later, our species is still here. Life is worse for some, but better for many. For whatever reasons, some of us seem to like to see our existence as threatened, and that's been true for some time - maybe forever.

Mods - please feel free to set ground rules or just toss it on the ABV pile, as desired. And everyone, please keep in mind that humor is a plus - it relieves some of the tension that such discussions are bound to create.

To get the ball rolling, from the morning newspaper - resistant bugs. Who among us would take their side? There may be little hope of eradicating them, but there are still positive steps we could and should take. Personally, Dad picked up the particular bug discussed below on his last hospital visit. He required 56 days of IV antifungals, and he will be on oral antifungals for the rest of his likely-to-be-short life.

Have at it - post your favorite existential crisis! :evil:

Deadly germs, Lost cures
A Mysterious Infection, Spanning the Globe in a Climate of Secrecy
The rise of Candida auris embodies a serious and growing public health threat: drug-resistant germs.
By Matt Richtel and Andrew Jacobs

Scientists say that unless more effective new medicines are developed and unnecessary use of antimicrobial drugs is sharply curbed, risk will spread to healthier populations. A study the British government funded projects that if policies are not put in place to slow the rise of drug resistance, 10 million people could die worldwide of all such infections in 2050, eclipsing the eight million expected to die that year from cancer...

“Why the heck are we reading about an outbreak almost a year and a half later — and not have it front-page news the day after it happens?” said Dr. Kevin Kavanagh, a physician in Kentucky and board chairman of Health Watch USA, a nonprofit patient advocacy group. “You wouldn’t tolerate this at a restaurant with a food poisoning outbreak.”...

Last spring, Jasmine Cutler, 29, went to visit her 72-year-old father at a hospital in New York City, where he had been admitted because of complications from a surgery the previous month.

When she arrived at his room, she discovered that he had been sitting for at least an hour in a recliner, in his own feces, because no one had come when he had called for help to use the bathroom. Ms. Cutler said it became clear to her that the staff was afraid to touch him because a test had shown that he was carrying C. auris.

“I saw doctors and nurses looking in the window of his room,” she said. “My father’s not a guinea pig. You’re not going to treat him like a freak at a show.”

Edit: To celebrate, and in hommage to @TiSteamo's choice of Henry David Thoreau, whose bemusedly judgemental expression gives appropriate pause - a new avatar. Who dis?
 
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Deleted Member 1643,
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Tranquility

Well-Known Member
A nice solid EMP from a North Korean missile won't destroy the world--it will just kill the millions of U.S. citizens who get water from the tap and food from the store.

Which will result in the destruction of the world in retaliation.
-----------------

Another existential problem?

Screen-Shot-2019-04-05-at-8.00.13-PM.png
But, on a more serious note:
 

Deleted Member 1643

Well-Known Member
A nice solid EMP from a North Korean missile won't destroy the world--it will just kill the millions of U.S. citizens who get water from the tap and food from the store.

Okay. Not so sure about giving North Korea ideas, but sure, if that's what keeps you up at night. It's a good thing the US will be lifting those sanctions, eh?
“President Trump likes Chairman Kim, and he doesn’t think these sanctions will be necessary,” said Sarah Huckabee Sanders, the White House press secretary.


And we should open the thread to radical solutions, good thinking.

exploded-roundculvert-main-1024x692.jpg


A sort of meta-solution - solves everything without recourse to suicide. And should the temptation become overwhelming, you need only close the fresh air inlet.:tup:
 
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Madri-Gal

Child Of The Revolution
Okay. Not so sure about giving North Korea ideas, but sure, if that's what keeps you up at night. It's a good thing the US will be lifting those sanctions, eh?



And we should open the thread to radical solutions, good thinking.

exploded-roundculvert-main-1024x692.jpg


A sort of meta-solution - solves everything without recourse to suicide. And should the temptation become overwhelming, you need only close the fresh air inlet.:tup:
Kewl. Looks like one of those tiny-houses, in a tube. And there will still be TV. Yay! Or is that for movies? Not much room for storage, for canned food, DVD's. Still, it's home, right? I'm curious who gets the bunk beds, who gets the master bedroom. Same old world order, I'm guessing. Kids and lesser relation/friends get the bunks. No clothes storage. That's ok, no laundry solution, either. You don't really need clothes, in that situation, do you? I wonder how long until we become inner-tube nudists? Or eat family members, for that matter. I'm thinking Donner Party. Or dinner party. Good thinking. Maybe that's the point. The reason there is no room for canned goods. No need.
 

Madri-Gal

Child Of The Revolution
20 minutes max with a torch and I am in there..........most security is a illusion.
Yeah, well, the right top bunk is mine. And I'm bringing a fork. And a knife.

You can't impress me with words like 'security', or 'family' any more. Hope, and illusion. Smoke and mirrors. Or vape and mirrors. My life feels pretty post- apocalyptic. Don't need to wait for a terrible future. I already have mine.
You can tell me it will get worse. I don't doubt it. That's just the way it is with the future.
But I have PTSD, so I'm not right for this thread. It's too soon. You have my support, @Accept .
 

Deleted Member 1643

Well-Known Member
Welcome, all!

20 minutes max with a torch and I am in there..........most security is a illusion.

Never said anything about security. Just have to install an explosive self-destruct sequence should anyone try something so foolish. Take out the whole island.

Hopefully, it would never come to that. Figure a slightly larger survival shelter could sustain its inhabitant for at least a few years. Almost anywhere. Available options include synthetic rock hatch cover and "bat-cave" driveway. C'mon, dream a little.

Not much room for storage, for canned food, DVD's. Still, it's home, right? I'm curious who gets the bunk beds, who gets the master bedroom.

That's the beauty of the round culvert - structurally sound and ample storage under the floor.:nod:

Bunk beds, is that what those are? Thought they were whimsical peppermint taffy sculptures. You'd need art to endure this existence. Did you notice the oversized water pistols in the master bedroom? Hilarious!

That's ok, no laundry solution, either. You don't really need clothes, in that situation, do you?

Now you're talkin'!

But I have PTSD, so I'm not right for this thread. It's too soon. You have my support, @Accept .

Thanks!

May time heal.
 
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Madri-Gal

Child Of The Revolution
Welcome, all!



Never said anything about security. Plan B could just as well be explosives.

Hopefully, it would never come to that. Figure a slightly larger survival shelter could sustain its inhabitant for at least a few years. Almost anywhere. Available options include synthetic rock hatch cover and "bat-cave" driveway. C'mon, dream a little.



Oh, is that what those are? Thought they were whimsical salt-water taffy sculptures. You'd need art to get endure this existence. Did you notice the oversized water pistols in the master bedroom? Hilarious!



Thanks!

May time heal.
Thank you. I'm ok. Just don't know what to say about antenatalism. Not so soon after one of my kids tried to kill me. I like my other two, just fine. No regrets there. I just can't advise anyone to have kids. Or not to have kids. Just Be Careful.
 

Madri-Gal

Child Of The Revolution
@arb, it wasn't worth the diapers, that's for sure!
Agreed, @Accept. If we didn't have enough time to discuss birth control, then for sure we didn't have time to discuss the possibility of parenticide. Is that a word?
Matricide + Patricide = Parenticide
Something like that.
 

Deleted Member 1643

Well-Known Member
As for antinatalism, I think Bill Hicks would say:
"Do you think we are too many in the world? Well, kill yourself!"

Ho-hum, the pronatalist equivalent of "plants have feelings too". The first thing Archie Bunker said to Mike Stivok. If this thread were about antinatalism, you'd need to try much harder.

But it's not about antinatalism. Keep up! It's about perceived existential threats, over the years.

And - expect a guess on the avatar, please.

Now, let's free some "fools from the chains they revere". :hmm:

He is, now, yes.

Wow.
 
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TiSteamo

VAPEnsiero... sull'ali dorate...
Ho-hum, the pronatalist equivalent of "plants have feelings too". The first thing Archie Bunker said to Mike Stivok. If this thread were about antinatalism, you'd need to try much harder.

But it's not about antinatalism. Keep up! It's about perceived existential threats, over the years.

And - expect a guess on the avatar, please.

Now, let's free some "fools from the chains they revere". :hmm:

In fact, Hicks' joke (as always) is not "just" a joke.

I love comedians, when they make me laugh and think.

"If you think that in the world we are too many, kill yourself!"

Why do you want to stop Others lives?
If you believe in your purpose you should want to do something concrete right away!


It makes us laugh but also reflect, precisely, because it reveals an important aspect of this concept.
Basic selfishness.


No, I don't know who the guy in the avatar is.
An insurer? :D
 
TiSteamo,

Deleted Member 1643

Well-Known Member
If you believe in your purpose you should want to do something concrete right away!

Again, not really an antinatalist. But, if you insist, this statement doesn't follow. One might be content to simply wait a few years. What are ten or twenty years? Less than the blink of an eye in geological time. Hardly matters at all. Nothing to get worked up about.

No, I don't know who the guy in the avatar is.
An insurer? :D

Already gave you one hint. A personal favorite, among many: “The more I read, the more I acquire, the more certain I am that I know nothing.”
 
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TiSteamo

VAPEnsiero... sull'ali dorate...
Sorry if I went off-topic but sometimes I still think of that guy who said that having children is selfish. :rofl:
(Could I be on topic if we think of the guy as an "existential threat"?) :hmm:

It is selfish to wake up at noon and to listen to some excellent prog-jazz by smoking sweet flowers, certainly not to spend sleepless nights surrounded by poop-filled diapers.


If we think about it, giving life to another person and taking care of him is the least selfish thing in the world.
 
TiSteamo,

Deleted Member 1643

Well-Known Member
Sorry if I went off-topic but sometimes I still think of that guy who said that having children is selfish. :rofl:

Change of avatar, change of character. Did you think this was real life?

(Could I be on topic if we think of the guy as an "existential threat"?) :hmm:

Could be. As a young genetics student, dreamed of engineering a sterilization virus. So much kinder than Candida auris and that "natural" germ crowd, don't you think?

If we think about it, giving life to another person and taking care of him is the least selfish thing in the world.

And the first thing Mike said to Archie: "If you bring a kid into this world today, you owe him an apology."

In any individual case, either apologies or thanks might be in order. It's a chance parents choose to take. Others, just as reasonably, choose not to.

By all means, keep trying.:bang:

Last hint (a double). First, one of the big ones: "I wholly disapprove of what you say and will defend to the death your right to say it."

Second, all time favorite: “Now, now my good man, this is no time to be making enemies." (On his deathbed in response to a priest asking him that he renounce Satan.)”

Anyone?
 
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Ramahs

Fucking Combustion (mostly) Since February 2017
I know that plenty of people will have kids, and more power to them (to an extent). And for those that choose not to, more power to them.

We know how much damage is hapening to the planet because of us, so if a percentage of us chose to be childless (with the added benigit of helping to control the hairless ape population), so be it.

I know that my “biological clock” seems to be running in reverse, where the idea of having children was a goal when I was a younger man, but the older I get, the less apealing it is to me.

What really annoys me is when people constantly harp on people who choose to be childless. Always trying to convince them how great of a thing it would be for their life, when it’s clearly not for everyone.

So, have kids, don’t have kids. It’s a completely personal choice and no one should ever be able to force you to do either. But a more controlled hairless ape population would not be a bad thing for this planet and all of us inhabitants. And I commend those that choose to go that way.
 

Deleted Member 1643

Well-Known Member
I know that my “biological clock” seems to be running in reverse, where the idea of having children was a goal when I was a younger man, but the older I get, the less apealing it is to me.

AKA bachelorhood. A perfectly normal phenomenon. Nothing to be afraid of or disgusted by. It's in our firmware. :lol: Even makes sense from a population/evolution perspective, to the extent that bachelors become second fathers to their nieces, nephews, etc.

Maybe even a response to overcrowding. Causes all kinds of atypical behavior, like cannabilizing infants in rodents.

Personal choice was pretty harsh - closest relation, except for Mom and Dad, is a single cousin. Most of our genetics is lost. Probably deserves to be, nothing special here, IMO, and it's this vote that counts. Someone very traditional might feel that it was selfish, but it's at most a case-by-case thing. Certainly, no regrets. Probability of everyone being miserable in the alternative approaches metaphysical certitude.

Probably shouldn't have led with antinatalism. Buried the lead. :rip: Nuance.

Or maybe people want to discuss more, which is fine. Felt this way as a young man, when "overpopulation" was more popular, before "climate change" stole its thunder, but age brings perspective. Just missing the good old days which happened to have half as many people, and we weren't raised by the Internet.:myday:

Not very hospitable, though. No different from closing our doors to migrants, really. The young are like time migrants. :whoa:

Voltaire.........lolz.

Winner, winner, tofu dinner - give that man an e-cigar! :cheers:
 
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TiSteamo

VAPEnsiero... sull'ali dorate...
Your thread is about Candida, but didn't Voltaire write Candide? :D


Apologizing to your child for having brought him into the world is the maximum of mental sadism.
And then apologize for what? I can only apologize for my responsibilities that I have not respected.

But apologizing makes little sense, we must change.

I believe instead that we need love, presence, responsibility. Towards children and the world, which is the same thing.
We are creators of what we do and the world is a projection of ourselves.

Do you like?


ps

Demographic control?
Responsibility could mean not condemning the use of condoms as the Church did.






hairless ape

Hairless ape???
Do you think to be an hairless ape???:rofl:
 
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TiSteamo,
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