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Multi-brand HEALTHY RIPS FURY

Discussion in 'Portable Vaporizers' started by reeefermadness, May 9, 2017.

  1. BabyFacedFinster

    BabyFacedFinster Capo di tutt'i capi

    Messages:
    1,300
    My capsules only get used when I take my F2 out in public, like a park or the beach. So mostly in the warmer weather. The mp is quite stealthy and you can pop capsules in and out of the F2 quickly and easily. Otherwise I'm using the glass adapters most of the time around the house. That would be the bubbler or the wpa. I like the cooler airpath and they keep the heater chamber clean.
     
  2. Vaporific

    Vaporific All who wander are not lost...

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    288
    Location:
    Vaporville
    Quick question: does anyone have a Fury/2 or clone of either in which the standard mouthpiece tends to pop up/out and not readily stay on? I have a Snap (Fury clone) purchased new almost 6 months ago - spontaneously and serendipitously the same day my pre-order Grasshopper Ti died (go figure) - and I didn't have any issues until recently where it won't stay on that well any longer. I don't see any visible wear or damage to the bottom channel that fits onto the body, and I've tried different o-rings too but the MP still pops off quite easily. And the bottom of the MP and the rest of the unit are very clean of any debris and particulates.

    It may come down to ordering a new MP from HR, and soon, because it's my only vape at the moment. I'm still mulling another but trying to keep VAS at bay and money in my pocket for a large expenditure in a few months - otherwise I would buy a few portable vapes. :peace:
     
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  3. LesPlenty

    LesPlenty Well-Known Member

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    1,036
    Location:
    Australia
    You could just purchase the WPA for a mouthpiece as you do not know what part of your Snap is not working properly. If you just get another standard mouthpiece you could still have the same problem.:tup:
     
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  4. Vaporific

    Vaporific All who wander are not lost...

    Messages:
    288
    Location:
    Vaporville
    True indeed however the portability aspect goes out the window with a WPA. Not throwing in the towel yet.:peace:

    EDIT: I did order a new MP. For $20 I'll hedge my bet it will work. If not some glass is possible so it doesn't become a paperweight however I greatly enjoy portability and the flexibility of being mobile with a vape. And if the new MP doesn't work out then a new vape will be purchased ASAP - and then the question becomes which one.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019
  5. Tommy10

    Tommy10 Well-Known Member

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    1,328
    Got a mate who’s being pushed to the light side by her girlfriend she’s thinking about a fury 2 due to some research and suggestion by me, we went to a vape shop and she held a swift pro the new davinci and a crafty.

    She liked the size of the crazy, so I thought maybe a CF but dunno about bowl size (smaller preferred for this style). It’ll be a quick heat (what’s the heat up time) use a load til done through the bong and turn it off. Battery doesn’t seem huge but around the house I think it would be fine and she’s not a very heavy user (I’m tempted myself haha was more a personal concern) and it’s micro USB so I have it battery backs work?
    Just wondering before she pulls the trigger what other major points am I missing? She loves the full temp control and I think 430 temp will be good for that smoke like experience. Any downsides I’m missing? Seems like an all round good thing.

    She has used my mighty loves it, but it’s too big and expensive, loves the vapcap but the lighter not going to appease the GF.
    How does the hybrid nature of it lend itself to noobies who don’t want a big learning curve, does it have the draw technique issues of a convection or more of a fool proof draw of a conduction vape? What sort of % would you guys consider it? I’m thinking closer to conduction the better
     
  6. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    19,006
    Location:
    Left Coast
    It's conduction. For convection to work the air has to be considerably hotter than 'magic temperature' going in (so it can give up heat to make vapor and still be above say 390F). Like Solo, FMs and so on. Convection needs 'glowing hot' sources (like 1200F), not available here. The best we can do is preheat the air so it doesn't 'rob too much heat' that would otherwise make vapor. All the vapor is produced by conduction in any event.

    As to the main question, F2 is @Vitolo's top pick for his 'customers' who are all rank amateurs with serious medical problems needing a 'foolproof' vape. The feature set is enough for effective use, without too much confusion and maintenance and reloading are easy even for those with physical challenges. The 'dosing capsules' allow you to preload and do rapid/easy reloads, and they tend to keep the vape bowl very clean in the process.

    Few, if any, report issues with the draw.

    IMO sounds like a great choice from what you describe. There's solid reasons it's so popular.

    OF
     
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  7. Tommy10

    Tommy10 Well-Known Member

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    1,328
    Okay cooooo! I recommended full conduction (loves the vapcap) by read the F2 was a hybrid even though it struck me as a conduction.
    And that’s the go!
    It came down to this and CF and I still will probably get a CF (because if a friend the F2 I can get that must try VAS fix without coughing up hehe alterior movtive for sure) but I think as a solo vape for a light user (often but not much) it seems like an absolute goer.
    She goes camping a lot so I lent the hammer but that’s just a bit too full on, other butanes are out because of the crackie look or preceived look. Micro USB is all good away from the house camping as her van is nicely kitted out. I think the F2 is gonna be the one. Excited, they are for sale local (different state same country) might get to try one this week haha.
     
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  8. justcametomind

    justcametomind IT'S TIME!

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    892
    F2 is my vape of choice for a portable and I prefer it over the Mighty. It’s perfect for switching to vaporizing. In a way or another, F2 is superior to all the cheap portable vaporizers (under 100€/$).
     
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  9. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

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    19,006
    Location:
    Left Coast
    Yep, you read that a lot. Scientists, who understand Thermodynamics, will tell you you can't be a 'hybrid', only one or the other based on heat flows. Sales types, who don't know/care about that but 'reason' claiming convection leads to sales have different opinions. Engineers it seems can be 'paid' to support that?

    Your intuition seems sound, I'd trust it.

    It's a bad situation, really, but Makers are in a spot. Once the first makes the claim that not only is 'hybrid' possible, but they're using it to full advantage the rest are compelled to play along or lose sales......

    Mostly we're to blame, IMO. We now look for this on our own. With the VapMan (a personal favorite) we had owners insisting that convection was happening through the heated brass inlet tubes even as some of us including the Maker explained that that contribution was trivial against the conduction heat stored in the mass of the pan during heating. Guys think convection is automatically superior, and who doesn't what the best vape possible?

    Depends on where you went to school I guess, but IMO if we're going to use technical terms we should use the correctly?

    If you're looking for performance like Solo/Air/ArGo (or FMs and similar vapes), that's what you'll get.

    Regards to all. I think you and she will be quite happy with F2. It's a great unit for sure. BTW, I've used a small 'power bank' to top up F2 in the field. Worth considering if the RV isn't handy?

    OF

    Edit: Sorry I forgot to add to the above rant, there's a couple of overall performance issues you can use as 'food for thought'. First, 'heat soaks'. Conduction vapes benefit from this, pauses between hits gives time for heat to conduct back in. Convection vapes, OTOH, suffer from this. Heat in the load is lost between hits (via conduction to the vape itself, ironically) meaning the now too cold load will need extra heating (more hot air) to eventually start vaping. But, 'once there', continued hitting brings more hot air in, the load get hotter still, and vapor production increases through the hit rather than tapering off. By this 'test' F2 has vapor waiting (after a soak) that gets weak as the stored heat is exhausted not weak vapor that gets ever stronger as fresh hot air is drawn in?

    Secondly, since convection vapes must heat a lot of air that does no useful work (heating the load), it must draw heavily from the battery to make this power up. While (most) conduction vapes have pretty good battery life, and are similar in their 'sessions per charge' when you correct for battery capacity, convection vapes are real power hogs. Way less sessions with the same stored charge. Again F2 is more like Solo than TVs.

    Fun stuff. Thanks for listening.

    OF
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2019
  10. Vaporific

    Vaporific All who wander are not lost...

    Messages:
    288
    Location:
    Vaporville
    Dexterity too from what I recall reading Vitolo's posts on the other thread. I love my Snap (Fury clone) however...

    UPDATE: I purchased a new Fury mouthpiece however it fits no better and actually slightly worse than the one that came with the Snap, which I bought new. That's the bad news. There's something with the mold on the unit that's not holding the mouthpiece in place as secure as it should. It didn't start out that way but the last couple of months it has been easily popping off/out. A buddy has a F2 and my original MP fits well on his unit so I think it's the mold on the Snap. The good news: HR replied quicly to my inquiry about the MP before purchasing it and, after letting them know it wasn't better than the original MP, I asked if they would sell me just a F2 body since I already bought a new MP. They said (again quickly - amazing response time!) they can't sell just a new body but they might have a few lightly used ones they could sell me. I'm still following up with them on this (it was likely late PST for them and I'm on the East Coast and I didn't expect a reply so late).

    So my dllemma continues a bit as I grapple with either buying a used F2 since I now have two mouthpieces, o-rings and a cover or say screw it all and just buy something new. The F2 size however is SO ideal and my Snaps performance has never let me down, MP issues notwithstanding. I could always buy some F2 glass and relegate it to home use but I'm a portables guy at heart. A Fierce and a couple of other portable vapes are on my short list. To be continued. Happy weekend to all. :peace:
     
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  11. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    19,006
    Location:
    Left Coast
    I think you have a slightly different problem, not the mold but the material used in the clone? If you look carefully I think you'll find wear/rounding on the lower surface of the lip at the top of the body the two tabs on the MP latch under? The material in the body failed, not the MP. Since this hasn't shown up with F2, perhaps F2 is using a better (read 'more expensive') material?

    You can 'fix' this with the rubber cover I bet. Just cut the area around the top of the MP away and use the cover to retain the MP, holding it against the body? Same as tape or a rubber band would.

    If I were you I'd jump on the used unit offer. The F2 seems to one tough little vape, highly unlikely to wear out/fail. And if it does you can trade it in for half off a new one?

    You're right HR are top notch folks. Nearly without peer, if not actually so. The sort of place I like seeing my money going to. While we don't really 'need' more like them, we'd certainly benefit from it.

    Regards and best weekend wishes to all. Here we're finally getting much needed rain, we're well ahead of normal for this point in the month after typically being a small fraction of averages. I believe I'm going to load up some GSC and celebrate.

    OF
     
  12. Vaporific

    Vaporific All who wander are not lost...

    Messages:
    288
    Location:
    Vaporville
    Yes, that’s what I meant. Apologies if I wasn’t clear.

    Indeed I’m considering a slightly used F2. No word back from HR but and it’s the weekend so I’m not expecting nor pushing for their reply soon.

    As the cutting a hole in the smellproof cover, well that’s what I bought it for HOWEVER I’ve had friends smell ‘it’ even with it on and in my jacket pocket. Maybe it was on my clothes but nevertheless I’ll let the cover stay intact for now. Cheers!:peace:
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2019
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  13. GetLeft

    GetLeft Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,128
    Location:
    Convection City
    Yeah I'm digging this little thing. Definitely fits a niche. Or several niches. Reminds me of my only other conduction vape, the Air, but with much faster heat-up time, less restriction, greater ease of use, and greater stealth. I've given the capsules another go, with less material this time, and it's going to be my mode of operation with the F2. Otherwise I'd need to spend time each load cleaning the oven and the top screen, which isn't always an easy thing to do for me.

    I love my convection vapes but not necessarily because I consider the vapor they produce to be superior. I said way back when and I'll say again that the Air provides some of the most flavorful vapor I've had. I prefer the convection vapes I have because they produce vapor quickly, a key feature to my vaping needs. They allow me the luxury of being able to vape virtually anywhere and anytime, which I can't do with vapes that require a couple of minutes of heat-up time and continue to cook material after I've had my desired dose. (On this note, the F2 is less conservative than my convection vapes.) I also prefer the hand crafted convection vaporizers, but that's simply a personal preference. I prefer wrapping my hand around a nicely crafted piece of wood. And yes indeed the downside of the on-demand convection vapes I prefer is the cell usage. But physics are physics, as they say; everything comes with a price. What I haven't been able to figure out yet (and what I'm unwilling to spend money on to find out about) are some of the newer 'pure convection' vapes that boast 5 or so four-minute sessions of adjustable temp, on demand convection heat on a single charge. But that's a topic for a different thread. I'm quite happy to have invested in my F2.
     
  14. Vaporific

    Vaporific All who wander are not lost...

    Messages:
    288
    Location:
    Vaporville
    I asked in my last inquiry. TBD as I haven't heard back from them yet.

    Best I've encountered in my relative brief vaping life about 5 years now. They know what they're doing with customer service and product which helps immensely.

    OK, off for lunch, studying and then :leaf::lol:. :peace:
     
  15. Tommy10

    Tommy10 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,328
    Well well well, since this really seems like the perfect vape for my friend, I might just have to be a little away from homer for me! I love the mighty away from home but sometimes it really is a bit large.
     
  16. shredder

    shredder Well-Known Member

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    1,319
    My wife and I have 2 fury 2's and 2 mightys. They're (f2) like a mighty lite, or mini mighty. I prefer F2s for solo vaping, and mighty's for multiple users. But each can do both.

    I've bought several other F2s as gifts and no complaints. Although im sure they would like mighty's too, lol.
     
  17. CVC4455

    CVC4455 Active Member

    Messages:
    82

    Well when this all started it was a full convection vape. Then after a bunch of back and forth it was considered a hybrid vape that was mainly convection but due to the proximity of the heater and the medical grade stainless steel bowl retaining heat it also had some conduction going on. Now your telling me it's 100% conduction? Not arguing with you either, it's just interesting. But either way it's a nice vape especially the size!
     
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  18. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    19,006
    Location:
    Left Coast
    Not sure what to say about what others might have said/believed, but I've never held it, or similar vapes, to be anything but conduction. Since before I knew about vapes. Since school and all that Thermodynamics stuff. Made a living following those rules, I believe in them.

    I don't doubt a bit some made other claims, just not me.

    IMO there is no such thing as a hybrid in these cases although it could be the case that heat 'leaks into the load' from poorly done convection systems I guess?. But again, in that case, there has to be a source of heat much hotter than the load......which is not the case here. The hottest temperature anywhere is 400F or so, same as the load. Heat can only flow from a hotter place to a cooler one. There's the issue of 'specific heat' in convection. The 'working fluid' (air in our case) can only carry a specific amount of heat (in calories, not degrees) and gives that up in 'calories per degrees C' of temperature drop. Air has very little such heat, which is why you can easily run your hand through a hot flame but get scalded badly by water much cooler (in degrees). You need a lot of quite hot air to supply the heat to the load needed to make vapor (remember, making vapor takes calories even if the degrees of the load never changes. Called 'latent heat of vaporization' this is what causes steam burns to be so severe. The 'extra heat' it took to boil the water 'comes back' as it condenses. It takes one calorie of heat to raise one gram of water one degree C (the definition of calorie, in fact). Going from 30C to 31C takes one calorie, as does going from 91 to 92. Few other fluids are this high. In fact Ice and steam (solid and gas phase of the same water) are about half a calorie per degree.

    'Real convection vapes' (like say VG with a 1300C torch feeding it or TVs with 1300C (give or take) 'thermal cores') are much higher than 400F. Likewise, ESV (when it's heating air) is 'glowing hot'. Not a very efficient way to make vapor compared to conduction (which is why convection vapes are power hogs).

    But changing a gram of water from liquid to gas (no temperature change, still 100C) takes about 540 calories. Five hundred times more energy with no change in temperature. Likewise we need to supply a LOT of heat to make vapor happen, a constant flow. That flow can only be done one of 3 ways, conduction, convection, or radiation. Convection and radiation are out due to the 'delta' (difference) in temperatures between source and load. The source has to be much hotter, and heat the air way past 400F, in order for the hot air to 'give up' enough heat to do the job and still be hotter than 400F (so it doesn't become convection COOLING).

    To keep a pan of water boiling you need to keep adding heat on the stove, a lot of heat. Even though the temperature of the water and stem never change from 212F. Only change over time is there's less water liquid and more water vapor. Once the water (liquid) is gone the pan can finally get hotter, hot enough to fire off the smoke alarm and get you to say naughty words. The pan (and your dinner) can 'finally' get past 212F.

    FWIW, radiation needs HUGE deltas to work reasonably. A campfire warms you because it's very hot in there and you're standing very close. Radiation based vapes like Bender have incandescent ('glowing hot') sources very close just to transfer enough to give a solid hit. No 'easy trick'.

    Those are the rules of Physics, established long ago and still valid. IMO using those technical terms should be done correctly. You can't call it convection unless it follows those rules......at least you should not. If we're really going to embrace 'STEM' (Science, Technology, Engineering and Math) we owe it to each other not to 'spread false Gospel' as it were? Although for many reasons (like ignorance or desire for sales for instance) it happens. Or just the sincere belief that convection is superior and we all want superior? It's not, of course, a calorie is a calorie no matter if it got there by conduction, convection or radiation.

    You're welcome to believe what you want, of course, we all are. But that's what I believe and why. Why is important IMO. We should not 'abuse' technical terms if we wish our young in school to use them correctly and get on the STEM train. Just it's love of 'heat soaks' proves F2 can't be convection to me. You can't 'overrun' a convection vape with a big hit, unlike what we see here. That's a 'conduction thing'.

    What, in the end, is in a name? Shakespeare asked "would a rose by any other name smell as sweet?". But he's dead now.

    Regards to all and my thanks to those curious enough to wade through all the above. Fun stuff, like I said I used to make money teaching such things, and using them 'on the job'. So they are more important to me than most?

    OF
     
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  19. Ramahs

    Ramahs Fucking Combustion (mostly) Since February 2017

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    Is it possible that another factor is that the lower pressure created by the inhale would also mean that it causes things to vaporize as if the temp is higher...since these chemicals vaporize at a lower temp if the pressure is lowered?
     
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  20. MonkeyTime

    MonkeyTime Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    974
    Location:
    WI
    Without a sealed system, you're not lowering the pressure....
     
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  21. OldNewbie

    OldNewbie Well-Known Member

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    2,007
    Aren't you? Isn't that the reason why planes fly? (See also, "Bernoulli principle".)
     
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  22. MonkeyTime

    MonkeyTime Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    974
    Location:
    WI
    It's early, I'm old, my memory is questionable (kids will be witnesses if needed) and haven't had any coffee yet, but I thought that was a fluid dynamics theory?

    I was thinking you weren't lowering the atmospheric pressure with a draw any where near enough to affect temperatures with any significance?

    Maybe someone with more real world application can step in.....
     
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  23. OldNewbie

    OldNewbie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,007
    As to the amount of lowering, you'd need some math. (I'll do a look for the formula, but recall it is not just an adding or subtracting thing. Here is at https://www.lmnoeng.com/Flow/bernoulli.php ) But, for the real world:

    https://physicsforce.umn.edu/content/paper-lift-0
    What happens
    This is a simple demonstration dealing with Bernoulli’s Principle. The demonstrator will hold a piece of paper close to their lips, and blow across the top of the paper as it hangs down from their hands in front of their lips. The paper will respond by moving up, toward the stream of moving air. It would seem the paper would move away from the stream of air, but it does not. It moves toward the stream of air.

    How it happens
    Bernoulli’s principle states that fluids in an area moving faster than the the surrounding area possess less pressure. Faster-moving fluid, lower pressure. (In general, fluids include liquids and gasses. Air is a gas and as such is classified as a fluid.) When the demonstrator holds the paper in front of his mouth and blows across the top, he is creating an area of faster-moving air. The slower-moving air under the paper now has higher pressure, thus pushing the paper up, towards the area of lower pressure. Perhaps you have noticed, for example, that an empty mayonnaise jar in your sink with water in it will move in, directly under the water faucet as you turn on the water. This is the same thing as we observe here. The water that is moving possesses less pressure, and the jar is pushed toward that area by the water that is not moving which has greater pressure.​

    The basic calculations are https://www.captiveaire.com/manuals/airsystemdesign/designairsystems.htm :

    Flow of air or any other fluid is caused by a pressure differential between two points. Flow will originate from an area of high energy, or pressure, and proceed to area(s) of lower energy or pressure.

    Duct air moves according to three fundamental laws of physics: conservation of mass, conservation of energy, and conservation of momentum.

    Conservation of mass simply states that an air mass is neither created nor destroyed. From this principle it follows that the amount of air mass coming into a junction in a ductwork system is equal to the amount of air mass leaving the junction, or the sum of air masses at each junction is equal to zero. In most cases the air in a duct is assumed to be incompressible, an assumption that overlooks the change of air density that occurs as a result of pressure loss and flow in the ductwork. In ductwork, the law of conservation of mass means a duct size can be recalculated for a new air velocity using the simple equation:

    V2 = (V1 * A1)/A2
    Where V is velocity and A is Area

    The law of energy conservation states that energy cannot disappear; it is only converted from one form to another. This is the basis of one of the main expression of aerodynamics, the Bernoulli equation. Bernoulli's equation in its simple form shows that, for an elemental flow stream, the difference in total pressures between any two points in a duct is equal to the pressure loss between these points, or:

    (Pressure loss)1-2 = (Total pressure)1 - (Total pressure)2

    Conservation of momentum is based on Newton's law that a body will maintain its state of rest or uniform motion unless compelled by another force to change that state. This law is useful to explain flow behavior in a duct system's fitting.
    ....

    There are a number of calculators out there to show the results:

    http://www.efunda.com/formulae/fluids/calc_orifice_flowmeter.cfm
    https://www.pipeflowcalculations.com/airflow/index.xhtml
    https://www.lmnoeng.com/Flow/bernoulli.php
    http://www.valvias.com/flow-equations-pressure-drop.php
     
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  24. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    19,006
    Location:
    Left Coast
    Ooo, fun idea! I doubt Bernoulli has much to offer pressure wise, the effect is pretty small in things like perfume atomizers where the flow is intentionally restricted and the 'vent' is in the narrowed part. Plane wings a huge (large surface area) and need a lot of speed (over 100 fps?) while we can only offer a very small fraction of that with even the stoutest honk? Even pulling hard against heavy restriction (what I suspect is the biggest drop possible?

    Consider boiling water here and in Denver. Denver is something like 5000 feet up? IIRC (always a risk....) you lose about an inch of mercury per thousand feet (which is how the altimeter in your personal airplane or Ipad works (both are calibrated to 'local sea level pressure, which changes). So we're talking about 1/6 reduction (five of 30 inches)? Way bigger than we can ever hope for. Yet vapes seem to work more or less the same?

    Fun trivia bit, airplanes get the local pressure in 'milibars' (where 'normal pressure' is 1000, not 760mm or 30 inches) from the airport they're about to land at so their altimeters are calibrated 'where it counts'. Such altimeters I've seen have a small knob in the corner for this, twist it (as I did once with permission of the pilot) and the little 'clock hands' spin around indicating a different altitude. Pretty cool. Sailplanes do this in a relative manner. They seal off a compartment somewhere and a thin tube going to the cockpit lets air in and out as the plane rises and falls. There's a U shaped bend on the end with a 'pith ball' trapped in it. The ball goes up the tube 'backwards' as you climb as you climb and air leaves as the pressure drops. The higher it climbs in the tube, the faster you're rising. On dives it goes around the bottom and up the other side. A simple, cheap and accurate relative measure. It tells the guy with no motor just what he needs to know, is he getting closer to the ground (bigger houses) or climbing to safety (smaller houses) based on relatively small pressure changes using a large volume in the bladder for a practical unit.

    But I think this may be worth investigating. Get some nice Federal Grant money, buy a bunch of herb and wade right in? More useful than lots of the stuff 'they' use our tax money to look at.......

    Fun idea.

    OF
     
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  25. His_Highness

    His_Highness In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king

    Messages:
    2,479
    Not to derail the original thread here but since we already are.....where does the EVO fit in the convection vs. conduction vs. hybrid debate. I am sure the EVO is a "mostly convection" vape but there are other properties involved which is why loading an ELB, setting to max and then lowering to noon after the max temp is reached produces more on the first pull. Wouldn't the EVO then qualify as a unicorn ... hybrid?

    And it is a debate and not just relative to the EVO. The number of threads on this topic in an of itself and in vape specific threads is almost legendary in terms of the tools used and subject matter experts who participate in the debate.
     
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