Have you ever had strain so strong it scared you wasted?

[luchiano]

First off thank you all for your help and advice. Please lets not fight over it. Everyone is just trying to help.

Okay, To the question of what I ate. I had ribs from my smoker with sauce, corn, garlic bread and ceaser salad. To drink was my usual vitamin water. (I drink about 3 to 4 a day) I think they are each over 100% Vitamin c and 20% Vitamin b.

Checked my levels and I was on high side but under control. Thats usual after I eat.

Approx 2 hours later is when I vaped. Yes the GDP was full of resin and not too dry. In fact I bet the first 4 hits dried it some.

I got a nice but strong stone from first set of hits. All within 20 minutes. After an hour I had gotten over that peak feeling and wanted to start an old movie. So I quickly vaped another set of hits. I think the second set of hits were much stronger vapes as I remember. Probably due to weed being dried by temps.

I had been sitting for the first set and for full time till I vaped second set. As I recall just a few minutes after second vape I stood up with no problem other then feeling a strong stone and went to pee. I was holding wall while I pee and I started to feel kinda light headed and disconnected.

I went to open my outside deck door to get some air. I was feeling way high. I think then an anxiety attack took over as my heart rate went up and I felt scarred and out of my control some.

I started to worry too much and decieded I needed to sit down to mellow out. This did work, the main heavy stone lasted almost 2 hours and then I still passed out feeling high. Next day I still felt dizzy.

I was drinking a vitamin water while I vaped.

Hope this helps.

Thanks.

Thanks for replying back with this info because it proves my point that your blood sugar levels weren't high enough when vaping and this caused the problems.

When you ate the food was mostly simple carbs and protein which will not keep your levels consistant unless soluble fiber is ate with the simple carbs to slow absorption and prevent crashing. Corn is a little ok but you need a lot and it still isn't very high so it will cause a drop also just not as fast as white processed foods.
When you vaped two hours later your sugar would have been lowered and just drinking vitamin water isn't going to be enough to keep your high positive because your levels were not high enough in the first place and all the vitamin water did replaced what was needed just to sustain you.
I think you should cut back on the vitamin water because it isn't the route you should be taking if you want better health because vitamins are just one part of the equation. You should take orange and other fruit juices because they contain so many things that give health and positive highs it's wild. Just make sure you take it with some psyllium husk to slow absorption to keep you from crashing and maintaining constant levels throughout the day.

I think everyone is missing my point. I didn't just state to take vitamin C, I stated take it with some orange juice or another type of fruit juice because the juice will provide energy to the body while the vitamin C provides energy to the brain. The juice also enhances absortion and effects so not much vitamin C is needed.

If you want to keep your blood sugar in check and still eat the way you are while also maintaining high antioxidant levels get some psyllium husk(powdered kind) and some aloe vera fillet juice. Take the husk right after your meals and take the aloe vera fillet juice(this kind not whole leaf) with some fruit juice and vitamins every morning. Doing this will make sure you won't experience any negative highs and if you do they will be small and nothing to talk about. If you do it everyday and start taking some tea(black and green) you will get lovely highs and get more higher than you are now.
Anyway, thanks for replying and giving me data that I needed.

 

[luchiano]

@luchiano. I have well controlled high blood pressure (hypertension), no blood glucose problems (have actually worn an in dwelling blood glucose meter), but no, I haven't monitored my blood glucose before, during, or after a cannabis related anxiety attack.

However, I have had cannabis induced anxiety attacks as little as 15 minutes before eating, and as little as 15 minutes after eating. I am about 80% vegetarian (I still regularly eat fish, shellfish and occasioanlly a blood red rare steak) and eat an extremely high fibre diet.

I've also had definite cannabis related orthostatic hypotension (I hate to use that phrase but if you google it, it means sudden low blood pressure upon standing from a resting state). I never vape lying down any more, and if I'm sitting for more than 10 minutes while vaping, I stand slowly.

Just throwing info out there and don't mean anything by it

Tom

The reason why you got the attacks was because your body needs longer than 15 minutes to process your food that number is good for simple sugar liquids and depending on what you ate your glucose levels won't be high enough for your body to process good potent herb or taking in a lot of herb in a small time frame so an axiety attack is inevitable. You may eat a lot of fiber but that is a general statement because there are two kinds of fiber and the one needed in this situation is available in high amounts in certain foods. So unless I know your everyday meals and how much I can't just say you are getting a good dose and something else is going on. Being a vegetarian is good but that doesn't mean you're getting a good amount of healthy nutrients it just means you don't eat animals nothing more nothing less.

Also laying down slows blood flow so that isn't good for a lot of things not just vaping, ahem sex. You want good blood flow so sitting up or standing is your friend as long as you have enough fats and sugars in your system because if you don't you will fall flat on your face a minute after you puff.

Your high won't be as good as it can be because more cannabinoids will go to fat cells than the brain and lymphatic system. Yeah, laying is the last thing you want to do.

I see most aren't reading my post correctly and are misinterpreting what I'm stating about vitamin C and blood sugar and I will be here forever explaining myself so this is it. I gave iceshark my reply and I'm done. PEACE OUUUUUUT. ONE LOVE BREHS. NO HARD FEELINGS.

 

[iceshark]

I like your advice. At least your trying to educate people. Very cool
Thanks

 

[lwien]

The reason why you got the attacks was because your body needs longer than 15 minutes to process your food that number is good for simple sugar liquids and depending on what you ate your glucose levels won't be high enough for your body to process good potent herb or taking in a lot of herb in a small time frame so an axiety attack is inevitable.

See, this is what I take issue with. You are totally putting the blame for his anxiety attacks to something that is food related, when in fact, it may simply be nothing more than fear induced anxiety because he was higher than he was accustomed to being. Not every negative reaction to cannabis can be traced back to how one does or does not metabolize food.

 

[combusche]

as i have mentioned before in another thread, luchiano's words must be taken with a huge pinch of salt. i have nothing against him (or her?) but as a student of biochemistry and nutrition, i can say some (not all) of the things that luchiano says are either false, or somewhat based on true facts but spun with alot of unverifiable or non-scientific personal opinions trying to masquerade as fact.

luchiano: the reason why people always question you about your opinions is that i'm sure most people here can tell they are not scientific. the basic mandate of scientific research is that the burden of proof is on the person who is proposing a theory. if you cannot even back up your words with REAL scientific evidence, instead of saying "go look for it yourself, i've done what i can" then i beseech you to refrain from framing your opinions as scientific fact. use words like "in my opinion", "in my personal experience", etc etc. you like to frame your opinions as fact, and that is extremely dangerous because some people may actually believe it.

 

[lwien]

Naw combusche, I wouldn't go that far. I'd only ask someone for scientific evidence if I felt that I "could" be wrong. :/

Luchiano, what I don't want is for you to think that what I said is a personal attack. It's not. I respect you and your presence here because I truly believe that your intent is to help and advise.
We may disagree, and I hope that is as ok for you as it is for me.

 

[combusche]

i agree that luchiano's intentions are good, maybe even noble. unfortunately, too many disasters and tragedies in the world are created when good intentions meet ignorance. (please don't take slight to the word "ignorance" - it is just to point out ignorance about specific subjects. i may be ignorant about something you are an expert in, for example)

a relevant example of Good Intentions meet Ignorance: a mother who is ignorant about pot finds some in her son's closet. worried the son may be a 'druggie', out of good intentions, calls the police to get help. consequences? son is arrested, gets sent to rehab, has criminal record, has trouble with employment in future due to 'drug' record, etc etc.

the above scenario is not fiction, i'm sure it has happened to someone around you as it has happened to my friend.

 

[Beezleb]

Iwien, I can see how your stance/view is just as unsupported. Truth is, no one has no idea why he had an issue nor do we know if he accurately described it. None of us was their.

As far as my experience in the world goes I would guess he had a low sugar issue to he could not handle what he did. Both will feel similarly. Matters not if you disagree or agree or not. This is not a contest and to act in a manner that what Luchiano has said is unwise for several reasons.

One reason, well we were not their when this person had his issue, another is simply we are not doctors, another is that it common knowledge that this things happens throughout coffee shops in Holland every day. It is even common for them to have people who actually watch out for it, people turn all white like and drop out and all they do is put a piece of sugar in their mouth and they snap out of it. It is almost comical at times and if they did not completely pass out they will typically fight it until they get the sugar than they are normal. This is not as common among Americans as I think it has to do with higher quality weed and most Americans do not have daily access to upper class herb.

If you can contact the Coffee Shop Smokey and Mississippi in Maastricht in Holland, they are actual boats and I have seen this happen all the time at these places as these are my main spots back in the day. The Mississippi used to have an old guy who pretty much was the guy who watched over everyone and would spot it and catch people.

Another reason, I have never seen Luchiano say anything falsely in the past so to treat him as if he is an unknown entity as if he some kind of idiot, either your intent or not it is the picture you appear to try to paint, and that is improper respect to direct towards a fellow long term respected forum member. Look at his prior post. He is an asset to us. I say to you, you research it a bit before throwing out the prove it card. I realize this behavior has served you well in the past but I caution you on this.

This forum is not about you, Luchiano, me or anyone being right or wrong. It is a community of vapist trying to make our way out of the fog. Lets not act like we know better on everything. I assure you, we dont, though I do admit we do pretty good.

 

[combusche]

"This burden of proof is often asymmetrical and typically falls more heavily on the party that makes either an ontologically positive claim, or makes a claim more "extraordinary",[4] that is farther removed from conventionally accepted facts."

if you make a claim that no one else seems to know, burden of proof is on you. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophic_burden_of_proof

regarding a unverifiable opinion as fact simply because the person making the claim is "a fellow long term respected forum member" is a classic fallacious appeal to authority or celebrity. this is not a charged personal attack to anyone, but a statement from an objective point of view.

"This is a fallacy because the truth or falsity of the claim is not necessarily related to the personal qualities of the claimant, and because the premises can be true, and the conclusion false (an authoritative claim can turn out to be false). It is also known as argumentum ad verecundiam (Latin: argument to respect) or ipse dixit (Latin: he himself said it). [1]"

"Since we cannot have expert knowledge of many subjects, we often rely on the judgments of those who do. There is no fallacy involved in simply arguing that the assertion made by an authority is true. The fallacy only arises when it is claimed or implied that the authority is infallible in principle and can hence be exempted from criticism."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_authority

i'm sure luchiano will not face such fire if only he used words such as "in my opinion", "in my own experience", etc etc, instead of "the reason why.. is because" because the latter is framed as fact.

i'm very sure people around here respect and appreciate his effort, as i do, just not the credibility of the facts.

 

[lwien]

Iwien, I can see how your stance/view is just as unsupported. Truth is, no one has no idea why he had an issue nor do we know if he accurately described it. None of us was their.

As far as my experience in the world goes I would guess he had a low sugar issue to he could not handle what he did. Both will feel similarly. Matters not if you disagree or agree or not. This is not a contest and to act in a manner that what Luchiano has said is unwise for several reasons.

One reason, well we were not their when this person had his issue, another is simply we are not doctors, another is that it common knowledge that this things happens throughout coffee shops in Holland every day. It is even common for them to have people who actually watch out for it, people turn all white like and drop out and all they do is put a piece of sugar in their mouth and they snap out of it. It is almost comical at times and if they did not completely pass out they will typically fight it until they get the sugar than they are normal. This is not as common among Americans as I think it has to do with higher quality weed and most Americans do not have daily access to upper class herb.

If you can contact the Coffee Shop Smokey and Mississippi in Maastricht in Holland, they are actual boats and I have seen this happen all the time at these places as these are my main spots back in the day. The Mississippi used to have an old guy who pretty much was the guy who watched over everyone and would spot it and catch people.

Another reason, I have never seen Luchiano say anything falsely in the past so to treat him as if he is an unknown entity as if he some kind of idiot, either your intent or not it is the picture you appear to try to paint, and that is improper respect to direct towards a fellow long term respected forum member. Look at his prior post. He is an asset to us. I say to you, you research it a bit before throwing out the prove it card. I realize this behavior has served you well in the past but I caution you on this.

This forum is not about you, Luchiano, me or anyone being right or wrong. It is a community of vapist trying to make our way out of the fog. Lets not act like we know better on everything. I assure you, we dont, though I do admit we do pretty good.

i'm sure luchiano will not face such fire if only he used words such as "in my opinion", "in my own experience", etc etc, instead of "the reason why.. is because" because the latter is framed as fact.

Totally agree, combusche.

Beez, read post #54. I never stated what I said as fact, but used the word, "may". I really try very hard to use words like may, or imho, or should, or could, because there are very few things that I am 100% certain of. My comment regarding only seeking scientific evidence if I felt I could be wrong was more tongue in cheek. Didn't mean for that comment to be taken seriously. But if you read any of my previous posts, which I am sure that you have, I very rarely, if at all, state anything as fact. Read all my previous posts in this thread as an example. So when you say that my stance and/or view is equally as unsupported, I totally agree.

My issue with Luchiano is not that his statements are false, but more in line with what combusche stated above, and that is, especially in this particular instance, he is stating that this persons issues has to do with blood sugar by making statements like, "The reason why you got the attacks was because your body needs longer than 15 minutes to process your food". All I am saying is that this is not necessarily so.

Also, I take MAJOR issue, Beez, when you accuse me of "treat[ing] him as if he is an unknown entity as if he some kind of idiot, either your intent or not it is the picture you appear to try to paint". THAT is total bullshit and is not the picture I am trying to paint. How you can possibly get that from my interactions with him in the past is beyond me. Plus, I never threw out a "prove it" card, so I don't know what in the hell you are talking about.

I will repeat what I said in my post above. Luchiano, what I don't want is for you to think that what I said is a personal attack. It's not. I respect you and your presence here because I truly believe that your intent is to help and advise. We may disagree, and I hope that is as ok for you as it is for me.

 

[vapirtoo]

I love this forum! You guys share some great ideas and problems. Back east where this shit is
illegal; we would love being able to get high quality legal meds.
Whenever you are buggin out, eat your ass off! and drop some B complex pills.
It should normalize your head.

 

[sixthsensi]

I had very strange beginnings with cannabis. I must have had a VERY LOW tolerance to the effects of cannabis. It makes sense since I had tried it numerous times in the past but never cared for the short term effects. For me, it's all about the long term effects. When I really started to take an interest in it, about a year and a half ago, I had panic attacks almost every time I smoked! The only reason I kept smoking was to get ease the effects of cocaine withdrawal. (I fell victim to coke for about a year before.) I would say that the panic attacks subsided after about 3 months. I just called it getting REALLY FREAK OUT HIGH MAN!!!!! Now I only which i could get to point right b4 the panic stage. Trying to lower my tolerance, takes some self discipline.

 

[tonuzzi]

I was a long time stoner for years. Never was so stoned I was freaked.

Now flash forward 25 years and I just started vapeing as a MED user.

I was not even really getting high on this supposed new strong strains. I even put up another post here about the subject.

Yesterday I picked up a strain called Grand Daddy Purple here at a co-op in Shorline WA. Sat down last night and took 4 big vapes from my MFLB. Felt very nice. A head and coach lock high.

Felt it coming down after about an hour, so I deceided to take abother 5 big vape hits.

WAMMO! Withing minutes I was totally wasted. I think I started to get a panic attack because I was starting to feel so wasted. My heart rate went up, I could not get my balance (in my mind) to walk well. I was totally zoned. Started to feel out of control of myself.

Thinking stuff like how embarassing it will be to go to the ER and explain I am too stoned.

I started to control my breathing and my heart rate by sitting back down on the coach.

I was able to calm down but did not want to really move from the coach for almost 2 hours. Still was lightheaded sleeping. Woke up at 10am (usually would be up at8am) and dont feel hungover

That was freaky stoned. I kept having to tell myself its only weed and your freaking out.

It this what the term coach lock means?


Almost scared to vape this strain again.

WOW!

That happened to me the first time I vaped. Scared the shit out of me!!

 

[gb902]

If the panic attack, or any bad effect occurs, I can suggest to eat a little sugar, so you could keep a sugar sachet with you while vaping. I never tried it, but I have heard that it works quite good.
P.S. I prefeer to eat fruits instead of refined sugar, just because a fruit contains also many vitamins and minerals (wich could help with your high, too), and the most natural sugar.
Remember that refined sugar isn't very healty.

 

[unzari]

I read the first few replies and it sounds like you're not the only one. It used to happen in my teens when I started smoking (I'm sure I'm not the only one!). Nowadays, I get anxious when high only when I have some pressing concern or issue in my mind, and then it can really be an uncomfortable experience, but not the couch lock you describe.

Never before heard of low blood sugar being responsible for pot-related anxiety, and by that I mean I've only never heard that before and it could possibly be part of it. I've never heard of many things that are real: for example, I didn't know of Justin Bieber's experience until a couple of months ago lol (I might give vitamin C suggestion a try: it sounds interesting).

But I'd probably apply Ockham's Razor here and suggest you look at the obvious first (assuming that the low blood sugar theory isn't obvious, which, of course is relative).

If I were you, I'd consider the five other hits you took from your LB. I've never tried an LB (have on on the way tho), but I've read the LB thread in its entirety (no life) and from most reports, it can get you legitimately 'cated in no time flat. You might have done them before most of the effects from the first four hits were still in play. I know when I use my extreme with elbow and bong that I can pretty much go through an elbow in six good hits and an hour later still feel it.

 

[unzari]

Then why didn't the negative effects happen the first session he had about an hour before even though he took in approximately the same amount?

Two possibilities. One, is that he took the next 5 hits within an hour of taking the first 4. There is a cumulative affect here, especially when repeating your hits within the first hour.

Secondly, if his bud wasn't really dry, the first hits could be composed of other things than than just THC, you know, all that stuff that makes bud so tasty.

Ya know, it's like that post where we discussed someone who feinted when vaping. While I suggested low BP, you suggested blood sugar. The thing is, I am REALLY familiar with what low blood sugar feels like versus low blood pressure, and when I have stood up a bit too fast after a vaping session, my dizziness, and my feeling of possible feinting was definitely not low blood sugar but was low blood pressure. The two feel VERY different from on another.

While I have no doubt that blood sugar plays a role in how people feel, I think we may be putting a bit too much emphasis on that being the cause in these instances.

(Sorry if this post sees me having made two posts in a row, but this is a really interesting thread!)

I have to go w lwien on this, esp. because OP seems also to have attributed it to too much, too fast.

I've passed out from smoking twice and vaping twice, and I attribute it to lack of oxygen and low blood pressure...but I don't know how taking a huge vape hit lowers my blood pressure. Does it somehow restrict blood to the brain?

 

[sundaddy]

I've had some herb that scared me , but not from the high. What scared me, was the smell. I mean if you had one tiny piece out in the open air, the whole room smelled like a skunk sprayed. Tasted great. Believe me, in 30 years, I have smelled some skunk, but damn. I think it was White Shark, I don't know if all White Shark smells that strong, or if this was a phenotype. Awesome, but takes the out and kicks the paranoia in high gear. SCARY stuff.