Fuck combustion? no no no...fuck tobacco

[Ron Jeremy]

Hmmm.......let's see.

"Tobacco use kills an estimated six million people worldwide each year and drains $500 billion annually from the global economy in lost productivity, misused resources, and premature deaths.

By 2015, an estimated 2.1 million cancer deaths annually will be caused by tobacco products."
----MedicineNet

And who in the hell pays for all the medical costs associated with lung diseases due to tobacco? We all do, and that's the problem. I have no problem if someone wants to kill themselves. Personally, I think we should legalize suicide. I just don't want to have to pay for it.

Fix the problem of me paying for your choices (or vice versa) and skip by the really bad idea of telling people what they can and cannot do.

 

[Ron Jeremy]

What about alcohol?

There are too many people that can have a glass or two of wine every night and not ever become alcoholics. Same thing can't be said for cigs.

You are incorrect, sir. I personally have no addiction to tobacco. I enjoy smoking when I drink, which I do primarily on the weekends. I can smoke 10 cigs one night and not even think about them for 5 days. Completely forget I enjoy smoking. And then smoke the next weekend.
Regardless, what harm cigarettes do to people makes no difference to the fundamental right to do anything you want (as long as you do not impact the ability of others to do the same).
Laws that are preventative, or that find you guilty prior to actual injury (speed limits, for example) are fundamentally flawed and the ultimate end to this philosophy is far worse than other behavior modification options.
I don't think you should be smoking (vaporizing, haha) weed. It modifies your behavior and makes you something you are not naturally. I think smoking weed should be punishable by 10 years in prison per offense. Without going into the meaningless merits of "good for you" (or not) argue against my position.

You may have seen this before:
http://drugwarfacts.org/cms/?q=node/28

Even lowering myself to the standard that making you do what I think it right is OK, alcohol is at least on par with nicotine for general human wellness purposes. Nicotine typically only harms the consumer. Alcohol is MUCH less fair in this regard

 

[Ron Jeremy]

This post intentionally left blank.

 

[Happycamper]

What about alcohol?

There are too many people that can have a glass or two of wine every night and not ever become alcoholics. Same thing can't be said for cigs.

You are incorrect, sir. I personally have no addiction to tobacco. I enjoy smoking when I drink, which I do primarily on the weekends. I can smoke 10 cigs one night and not even think about them for 5 days. Completely forget I enjoy smoking. And then smoke the next weekend.
Regardless, what harm cigarettes do to people makes no difference to the fundamental right to do

You are in the minority.

You have to understand how an addiction works, this is the whole reason why people find cigarettes enjoyable. There is little else to them other than a first time smoker maybe getting a teeny almost insignificant high (if you can even call it that) and probably feeling sick.

You have to train and teach your body to appreciate cigarettes. This takes a little work for someone just starting to smoke. (Remember back to when you first tried cigarettes. How awful they tasted and probably how sick you felt after the first one)

But understand how the addiction to cigarettes works. It's like making yourself wear a tight pair of shoes all day to be able to take them off to feel the relief or benefit. Thats the enjoyment of smoking. You feel the relief of feeding your addiction, and that is the only enjoyment anyone gets from smoking cigarettes.

Why else would someone willingly suffocate themselves with smoke inhalation? (compared to combusting MJ where you do it to get a real high, what do you get from cigarettes? oh yes, feeding an addiction that is all)


I would suggest if you get any enjoyment out of a cigarette it is an indication that you are actually addicted to them, otherwise you would not feel any benefit from smoking.

 

[Pseudonymous]

CrazyCracker, I again state that you aren't forced to go into those coffee shops. You are given a choice. This is nearly no different than telling people what they can do in their own homes. A privately owned establishment is a privately owned establishment and smoking is a legal activity.

I think the law is also for the benefit of the employees who work in these establishments. They can't just walk by if they need the job.

Only smokers should apply. It isn't the establishment's fault they are unemployed. The government should do more for the unemployed. What you said supports that, but I do not believe it supports banning smoking in those establishments.

I would suggest if you get any enjoyment out of a cigarette it is an indication that you are actually addicted to them, otherwise you would not feel any benefit from smoking.

And I would suggest that you hauled that straight out of your ass. Now, I'll say that I didn't mean for that to come across as excessively rude, just emphasizing that this is your opinion alone and is not at all backed up by fact. Simply enjoying something does not mean someone is "addicted." I smoke the occasional cigarette, too, and I'm positive I'm not addicted. I just find smoking fun. It doesn't have to be tobacco.

 

[Happycamper]

Its ok, you're just in denial.


However, what is the point of smoking a cigarette? What do you get out of it? Where is the enjoyment?

Its not like other stuff. Grass i get high off, thats one of the benefits that makes it understandable why someone would smoke it. But what do you get out of nicotine?


The truth seems to be the only benefit of smoking a cigarette is to relieve an addiction to nicotine. This is why people are convinced smoking helps them cope with stress, but its actually adding to their stress levels.

 

[Pseudonymous]

Nah, I'm really not. I still get the occasional head spin. I've gone more than a week without cigarettes without really caring. I never smoke when I'm home. I feel no urge or need to smoke, just the occasional want. Doing something you enjoy does not imply addiction. Having to do something you don't certainly does.

The enjoyment is the same as the action of smoking a joint to some extent. I just enjoy smoking socially sometimes. It gives me something to do with my hands. Not everyone enjoys playing basketball, but I do. The same is with cigarettes, only the apparent fun and benefits aren't as obvious (and in the case of tobacco, the benefits are few). I would prefer if the cigarettes didn't have nicotine. I've smoked clove cigarettes that were pretty neat. I'd buy them over tobacco if I knew where to.

I also don't think smoking helps with stress. Not with me, anyway. For some people, maybe it does.

If I had unlimited pot, I would never smoke anything else. But pot is expensive and difficult to find sometimes, so in those times when I feel like inhaling something, I choose what I can. I know, this could seem very dumb and even insulting to those truly addicted. It could be seen as me mocking them. That isn't the intention and I honestly do not believe I have the ability to get addicted to cigarettes. If I smoke anywhere near as much as my pack a day friends, it's just too brutal. I average less than a cigarette a day.

 

[Ron Jeremy]

I smoke "roll your owns". Not sure if there is a name for this. I like Amsterdam Shag from Peter Stokkebye. It is not much anything at all like pre-made cigarettes (although there may be some that are of equal quality - I have never seen any). I use the tubes with filters already installed and a little slider gizmo. Works great and is cheap (used to be, it seems?).
None of this is relevant, however. Addictive or not, it isn't a governments job to be your mom.
If I remember right, the original topic was that a government made it illegal to smoke in certain places.
In my opinion, this is not any government's job. It makes little sense for a government to protect you from every little thing and to provide you with every comfort and hardship protection. Screw all that. This is what I want from my government: Protect my nation's sovereignty, see that my freedoms are not encumbered, and educate me. Pretty simple list.

 

[Happycamper]

I smoke "roll your owns". Not sure if there is a name for this. I like Amsterdam Shag from Peter Stokkebye. It is not much anything at all like pre-made cigarettes (although there may be some that are of equal quality - I have never seen any). I use the tubes with filters already installed and a little slider gizmo. Works great and is cheap (used to be, it seems?).
None of this is relevant, however. Addictive or not, it isn't a governments job to be your mom.
If I remember right, the original topic was that a government made it illegal to smoke in certain places.
In my opinion, this is not any government's job. It makes little sense for a government to protect you from every little thing and to provide you with every comfort and hardship protection. Screw all that. This is what I want from my government: Protect my nation's sovereignty, see that my freedoms are not encumbered, and educate me. Pretty simple list.

I agree with the point, smokers should be able to smoke where they want. I have always disagreed with the smoking ban. In the UK it wasnt that long ago when it was made a law

However the only thing most people noticed when the smoking ban happened was how awful public places smelled (mainly of Piss and Unwashed bodies) that the smell of smoke was covering up before

 

[masejl12]

All of this kind of reminds me of an article I read in my sociology course a while back, its called "Becoming a Marijuana User" by Howard Becker. It's not about tobacco or nicotine but it relates to what HappyCamper has said on basically learning the effects of a substance and deciding whether you find them pleasurable.
Heres a link to the article

http://joshpackard.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/becker-1953-marihuana-user.pdf

 

[THC(g)]

see that my freedoms are not encumbered

If everyone had that in their list, your freedoms would encumber others' freedoms. Your freedom to smoke cigzzz (fuck combustion btw) inhibits others' freedom to inhale clean air. And it turns out, clean air wins in this one, though not against cars. Weed unfortunately loses as well, though for different (unreasoned) reasons

And, if you care about cancer (which I don't think so), roll your owns contain the ingredient that causes 95% of smoking cancers... tobacco. Tars are 5%.

totally didn't hit submit so i'll just hit submit now about a day later oops

 

[Ron Jeremy]

see that my freedoms are not encumbered

If everyone had that in their list, your freedoms would encumber others' freedoms. Your freedom to smoke cigzzz (fuck combustion btw) inhibits others' freedom to inhale clean air. And it turns out, clean air wins in this one, though not against cars.

I see your point. I was referring to bigger picture items such fair and speedy trials, voting, etc.
Nevertheless, I don't think one of your inalienable rights is to breath clean air. It doesn't seem that snokers are infringing on your ability to breath clean air in any case. If an establishments allows smoking, and you don't like smoke, don't use the establishment. If the establishment finds their revenues negatively impacted by allowing smoking, they will not allow smoking. It seems very unwise to tinker with self regulating systems. Such at printing 750 billion dollars.
It gets a bit stickier for government run things since free market pressures are not at work.