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FluxerHeaters.com, new induction heaters for Dynavap

Discussion in 'Vapor Related Equipment' started by mr_cfromcali, Aug 16, 2018.

  1. mr_cfromcali

    mr_cfromcali Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    38
    Hi all!

    With all due respect to @Pipes and his line of Dynavap induction heaters, I am going to make and sell a few induction heaters of my own design.

    I'll start with my big news: I'm making and selling a Dynavap induction heater with pulse width modulated (PWM) temperature control! What is PWM temp control, and why do you want it? I'll get to the explanation in a minute, but you want it for three big reasons:
    • the extra flavor the added heating time lets you extract from your material (!!!)
    • the reduced risk of combustion, especially near the end of a bowl
    • the ability to gain an additional 1-4 heating cycles from a typical Dynavap load (vs non-temp controlled Dynavap/IH sessions.)

    This may not be a very exciting video, but it looks like this:

    Click to play YouTube Video


    The above video show's a ~30 second clip of my vapcap induction heater with PWM temp control at work. I think you guys are gonna like it a lot!

    I'm selling the above heaters, as well as some other induction heaters of my own design, on this brand new web site I am also standing up: fluxerheaters.com . My initial products are desktops, but I have some very cool portables in the works as well. I'm actively developing those and hope to have more info on portables in another week or two.

    If you're interested in getting one, please send me a PM, DM, or sign up for info on the fluxerheaters.com site, and I will add you to my list. I plan to begin making and shipping these this weekend.

    Let's Talk About Pulse Width Modulation (PWM)

    If you truly know nothing about PWM, take a few minutes and read up on it here:

    https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/pulse-width-modulation

    The very short explanation is that PWM is a means of regulating electrical power (and thus controlling a device) by rapidly turning its power on and off (i.e., the frequency of its operation). Furthermore, each pulse is of a pre-determined amount of power, which is expressed as a percent of its time of operation within the frequency interval. This is also called the "duty cycle" of the pulse.

    FREQUENCY is how often something happens. It is measured in CYCLES PER SECOND, and expressed in Hertz.

    Hertz = 0Hz to 999Hz

    KiloHertz = 1KHz...999KHz

    MegaHertz - 1MHz...999MHz

    In the USA, the standard household electrical current is 110V AC, and that operates at 50Hz, or 50 cycles per second. "AC" stands for "alternating current", and that's how fast it alternates.

    DUTY CYCLE is the percentage of time a device is ON (and also OFF) within each CYCLE.

    What can I do with PWM?

    With PWM, you can vary both the frequency and duty cycle, so in theory you can both speed things up and slow things down (not simultaneously, obviously)

    From my own experience, I've had much, much more success slowing down the Dynavap's heating process than I have speeding it up. To be honest, I think there's a lot of magic in slowing it down. But first:

    How to Heat More Quickly with an Induction Heater

    If you want to make the heater heat its load more quickly, get a power adapter that is capable of putting out 8A or more. 8A will have the Dynavap clicking within a 3-5 seconds.

    The fastest vapcap clicks I ever experienced occurred when I used a marine battery to power my induction heater. It had so much amperage behind it it would click within 3 seconds.

    That being said, I want to stress something: Faster isn't always better. Faster is just faster.

    "Faster isn't always better"

    When you roast meat or bake bread - to name just a couple of things in this category - you usually aren't trying to do it as quickly as possible. Instead, you're trying to produce the best tasting result.

    Humanity spent many thousands of years cooking meat and other things directly over fire because that was our only option, but our diets and dishes improved greatly after people invented ovens and began to regulate the heat with which they cooked. Cooking food slowly gives it time to heat evenly, and the flavors in the food have time to express themselves and suturate throughout the dish. That's why soup and chili get better the longer they simmer on the stove.

    Slow Roasting Your Dynavap

    The Fluxer Heater with PWM Temperature Control™ brings this sort of control to your favorite vaping device. It gives you the ability to slow down the induction heating process. This gives the resin in the flower a nice, long time to heat up and change to a more "vapable" state. The result is an even more flavorful vape, at a lower overall temperature, with more complete vaporization of the contents of your Dynavap.

    Furthermore, because it takes longer to reach the final temperature, and that temperature is lower overall, the vapor you inhale will also be a bit cooler and less harsh. It makes for a VERY pleasant sesh experience.

    It pays similar dividends when one adds hash and other concentrates to the Dynavap oven - they also benefit greatly from the longer, slower heating cycle.

    Slowing Things Waaaaaay Down

    I have been playing with this prototypes of this PWM device since mid-June of this year. I do not claim to have tried everything, but I can tell you that a 16Hz frequency with a 30%-50% duty cycle makes for an outstanding vaping experience. That's pretty slow by the way - you will see the pulses in the device's LEDs, as you can in the above video - and it may take up to 30 seconds to heat a vapcap to temp at that PWM. But the flavor and overall experience of vaping at that temp are outstanding!

    Recommended Temp Settings and Usage for a Freshly Packed Bowl

    First heating: Max temp.

    Second heating: 16Hz, set to 50% duty cycle

    Third and and subsequent heatings: 16Hz, set to 30% duty cycle

    TIPS:

    I have found that I typically get better results using the above heat profile, as trying to heat a freshly packed, room temp Dynavap using a 16Hz/30% duty cycle (DC) profile takes a lot of time without providing much taste benefit over a shorter heating cycle. I think the greater benefits of PWM heat control reveal themselves once the Dynavap is already hot.

    You can change PWM outputs on the fly - you can switch from Full Power to Custom, or vice versa, in the middle of a heating cycle. The IH and controller won't care.

    You can try any values you'd like - up to 150KHz frequency and 100% DC - but be aware that higher values may not yield better results.

    Standalone PWM Controller for Other Desktop IHs Coming Soon!

    Oh, and one more thing - for desktop (i.e., mains-powered, not battery-powered) induction heaters, the PWM controller does not need to need integrated in the device itself, it just has to be inserted between the power adapter and the induction heater. I will be coming out with a standalone version of this PWM control pretty soon, and it should work with any non-battery powered IH.

    (The battery management systems in the portable units prevent the external PWM controls from working. You can use PWM control with a portable, but it needs to be inserted between the battery and the solid-state PWM trigger/relay. Due to the longer heating time, it's also likely to be a battery killer for portable units. The investigation continues...)

    OK. I'm done. Sorry for the wordiness, but I had a lot of material I wanted to share. Thanks for reading :D
     
  2. stardustsailor

    stardustsailor Well-Known Member Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    935
    Location:
    14-23-5-932-941
    So ,If I've understood correctly you 're applying PWM on the DC power input of a ZVS device .
    In other words ,a switching DC circuit controls the input power of another switching circuit ,
    with the latter expecting pure DC at it's input ...
    Well, that is actually a fine recipe for disaster ( fried MOSFETS at the ZVS circuit ,for example) .

    https://www.reddit.com/r/AskElectronics/comments/4mqatk/controlling_power_to_zvs_induction_coil/

    The PWM should be applied at the gates of the IH module's MOSFETS .
    Still being a very-very tricky thing to accomplish .
    Many variables have to be taken into account and a very careful
    selection ( & combination ) of MOSFET and PSU type is obligatory ,
    while a specialized MOSFET DRIVER IC is needed when a microcontroller is implemented .

    https://www.mouser.com/pdfdocs/Vishay_Zero_Voltage_Switching.pdf

    https://skaled.wordpress.com/2013/05/13/transistorsmosfet/

    https://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/MC34152-D.PDF


    Or you can follow a way different approach,regarding PWM controlled IH ...

    https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/15325008.2014.975386?src=recsys&journalCode=uemp20

    https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/4778210/

    http://www.arpnjournals.com/jeas/research_papers/rp_2015/jeas_0415_1880.pdf

    http://www.iitk.ac.in/npsc/Papers/NPSC2002/136.pdf


    PS :
    Your rig is still operating because of the low PWM frequency used ( 16 Hz ) .
    But being safe & reliable is another thing .

    :2c:
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2018
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  3. mr_cfromcali

    mr_cfromcali Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    38
    Thanks, @stardustsailor. You have given me a lot to read and a lot to think about. Thank you! I am obviously not coming at this with an EE background. I did not encounter any of the material you shared in my research, most likely because I was a) not using the right search terms, and b) hadn't experienced any issues or bad consequences. :shrug:

    So this is all news to me.

    Thanks. Well...hrm. :hmm: Again, you've given me a lot to read and a lot to think about, and I am not in any position to dispute the technical details raised above.

    "Ignorance is no defense, but I didn't realize I was breaking the law, officer."

    I wish it didn't work as well as it does @ 16 Hz. I wish it had failed early and loudly.

    :\
     
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  4. Hippie Dickie

    Hippie Dickie The Herbal Cube Manufacturer

    Messages:
    2,571
    Location:
    where the Cube rules!
    on the east coast it is 120v @ 60Hz
     
  5. felon167inc

    felon167inc Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    291
    interesting....how long till your portables?
    There is a line between slow heat and quicker for sesh times

    I do notice with low flame I get longer sesh and bit more flavour but in SJK china IH It is a bit quicker and sesh can be nicer to have with less heat ups

    In Aus we have 240v at I think 60 hz
    Unless using Solar off grid 12 v
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2018
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  6. mr_cfromcali

    mr_cfromcali Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    38
    I have two portable designs in the works. One design is basically ready now, (pic from my web site), but I need to build a batch to see if the design scales OK for production. I took this proof-of-concept/prototype camping for a week and it worked like a champ. It's a tight build, though, and it needs a little more refinement before I can sell copies of it:

    Click to play YouTube Video


    I have ten 1590BB housings and battery sleds on hand, so I plan on making a batch of them now that my store is open. There's quite a bit of enthusiasm for the portables, so they are getting my attention next.

    My other portable design is smaller and will be easier to produce, but my circuits for it have been flawed in various ways, so it's still in development. I have new PCBs for that design coming next week, so maaaaaaaybe those will be the ones that finally work? FC doesn't seem to offer the "eating popcorn" emoji, but that's where I feel I am with my smaller portable. I'll crank 'em out as soon as they work, but I'm not there yet.

    I've been working on the desktop units while I've been waiting for the corrected portable circuit boards to arrive. The desktop units crossed the line first as far as being ready to sell, so I decided to announce them instead of waiting for everything to be ready at the same time.

    Thanks - you are both correct. Noted!
     
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  7. Squiby

    Squiby Well-Known Member

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    2,645
  8. asdf420

    asdf420 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    395
    I want to mod my PSmini to do this. How about analog voltage control?
     
  9. felon167inc

    felon167inc Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    291
    what price are you looking at for those portables......
    The small compact size is alluring..... as long as longevity/reliability is there of course
     
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  10. mr_cfromcali

    mr_cfromcali Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    38
    I appreciate the interest in the portables. At the moment, though, the smaller one is still very much in development. As soon as the circuit proves out, I'll be able to do some real world testing. It's portable, and we all want it to be tough enough to haul around - "longevity and reliability", etc. A new batch of boards is on its way to me as I type this, so with luck, I can begin testing by mid-week and move this forward; otherwise, it will be another episode of CSI:Circuit Board Disasters. I'll share progress and/or setbacks as they come.

    As for the larger portable unit, I am confident that model works reliably in the field. I'm building a small batch this weekend to refine the design and also see how well my current production technique scales. I have a custom board in mind for this application, too, so this may get easier to build in the future. In any event, if the run I make this weekend is suitable for sale, I'll post a price and sell some. Until I have product, though, it's also still in development.

    I don't want to over-promise anything, so I ask for a bit more patience. I was alternating between working on portable designs and desktop unit designs, and I'm pivoting back to portables because that's where the obvious interest is. Believe me, I'm trying to move 'em along just as quickly as I can :D
     
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  11. Ramahs

    Ramahs Fucking Combustion (mostly) Since February 2017

    Messages:
    979
    Location:
    The Internet
    :popcorn:
     
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  12. stardustsailor

    stardustsailor Well-Known Member Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    935
    Location:
    14-23-5-932-941
    A PWM engine or a microcontroller are not needed to make an adjustable resonance frequency IH .

    All it is needed is a special MOSFET gate driver IC .

    A " SELF-OSCILLATING HALF-BRIDGE DRIVER " like the IR2153 .

    https://www.infineon.com/dgdl/ir2153.pdf?fileId=5546d462533600a4015355c8c5fc16af


    Resonance frequency is adjusted via a potentiometer .


    Couple of ( high-voltage ) IH circuits using the IR2153 .

    http://danyk.cz/induk_en.html

    http://danyk.cz/induk2_en.html

    http://www.jee.ro/covers/art.php?issue=WB1286956339W4cb56533d02a9

    http://www.electronics-lab.com/project/high-voltage-current-half-bridge-driver-using-ir2153-igbt/

    https://makingcircuits.com/blog/simple-induction-heater-circuit/
     
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  13. mr_cfromcali

    mr_cfromcali Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    38
    Cool - thanks, @stardustsailor. I will read through the links you shared. Those look like fairly straightforward circuits. Thanks!

    FWIW, I started this PWM+ IH project because I was intrigued by possibilities offered by the Arduino PWM MOSFET trigger these circuits depend on. My brain basically asked the question, "Hmmmm....I'm using an Arduino PWM MOSFET relay to control power to the IH...is there anything more interesting I could do with these devices if I fed this trigger something other than a simply 12V on/off signal? It says it takes PWM input, so let's give it some and see what happens." So I came at it from the "other" side, specifically looking for a PWM signal. I built an astable mono-oscillator circuit around a 555 chip with the intent of using that to generate a square wave PWM signal, then stumbled on to the digital PWM controller I eventually adopted for the design, since it seemed to work. Some mad-scientist style experimenting followed, and it would have ended there, except, again, it seemed to work, and I enjoyed some sweet, sweet, SWEET vaporization @ 16 Hz and ~35% power. Outstanding flavor, and all the other benefits I described. I was honestly surprised and thought I had found something pretty interesting.

    I've been replicating that experiment since mid-June, and it's been working for me pretty well...but I accept that my "shotgun wedding" approach of pairing PWM with induction heating is raw and unpolished, that the way I shoved PWM + IH together is not a happy marriage, and my application only "works" because my preferred frequency of 16 Hz is so slow that it's barely a frequency. Despite not keeling over immediately, my circuit is still living on borrowed time. I's a dead man walking. ;)

    ---

    My other takeaway from the last several days has been that there is significantly more interest in portable induction heaters than in desktop induction heaters. Cool! I've been working on a couple of portable heater designs, too, so I'll change my focus to those. Not a problem.

    I'll probably retire the design w/PWM. Or offer it as a custom build option, with the caveat that it shouldn't work and will likely fail, but it could work pretty well until it does fail (IMHO). ;)

    I do appreciate the links and the education! I'll look into the circuits you linked to, and if I feel I can build one, I'll do it and take it for a spin. In the mean time, though, I plan to move on to making something people seem to want. I enjoy making interesting things, and hopefully the good people of FC, r/vaporents, and r/Dynovap will like the portables once they are ready to go.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2018
  14. hopla

    hopla Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    167
    Location:
    Italy
    I don't know anything in that matter so maybe it's irrelevant but as far as portability is concerned the miniaturisation would seem to be one of the key factors.
    So do you guys know about that video
    Click to play YouTube Video


    The form factor is very tiny (without battery nor the heating coil but still very reduced)
    [​IMG]

    Will we see some IH that fit in the palm of the hand one of these days or are there limitations due to electric safety or power requirement? (i warned you, i'm really a newbie/uncultivated in electricity) :brow:
     
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  15. mr_cfromcali

    mr_cfromcali Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    38
    I have gotten them quite small, actually. Not quite as small as above, but small enough that I expect to be offering some nifty portables soon, as I outlined above.

    This is one prototype I made:

    [​IMG]

    The paper is the same footprint as the circuit board.
     
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  16. hopla

    hopla Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    167
    Location:
    Italy
    That looks very promising!
    Can't wait to see what the final product will look like :tup:
    With such a small footprint you could easily make 2 modules to separate the battery (usually the biggest piece if you want good autonomy) and the circuit board+heating piece.
    That modularity 'thing' (could be helpful for charging purpose and carrying more than one battery) came to my mind as i ordered some pieces to do one myself and noticed the 3500mah battery was 13.5cm... not that easy to fit in a portable device... but as i do it just for fun- and to have an excuse to buy a soldering iron- that will do :brow:
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2018
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  17. felon167inc

    felon167inc Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    291
    yes
    keen on the small size if reliable
     
  18. mr_cfromcali

    mr_cfromcali Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    38
    It's been a bit since I updated this thread, so I want to post a brief update on my shop and plans for heaters.

    PWM Controlled Induction Heaters

    After thinking things over, I am rebranding my PWM-controlled heaters as "experimental," since they are, in essence, experimental devices. I am continuing to offer them for sale. I have added a lot of material from this thread to my web site/store - appropriately attributed, thank you! - alerting potential buyers to the design issues that have been brought to my attention. A potential buyer may decide for themselves if they'd like to try one or not.

    I continue to use mine, and have been using it nightly since early June; it's been working great for me. I still think others might also enjoy the effects of slower induction heating on flavor, etc., but I'm not going to press the point, other than to say that if you get the chance, you should give it a try.

    Portable Induction Heaters

    I am moving forward with two portable designs as quickly as I can manage. One of these is travel-mug based, and it is coming along well enough that I want to share a few pictures of its prototype (still a work-in-progress as I type this). I plan to finish the prototype tonight or tomorrow, then move on to testing. I need to make sure it works, it doesn't get too hot, the battery life is OK, etc.

    These will be handmade devices, but the design is modular and I am hopeful that I can make them in small batches, assuming people want them and there's reason to make them in quantity, etc.

    Final price still TBD, depending on final build complexity, but they will most likely be in the $150-$200 range.
    I worked hard to keep the design modular, so I am hopeful I can make the pieces in batches and assemble several at a time. I would like to keep the cost down, but they will take time and effort to make, so we'll have to see if the design "pencils out" once I refine it.

    Caveat: This is a prototype, subject to change, and will only make it to production if it tests out. But I am hopeful. Let me know what you think. :)

    [​IMG]

    © FluxerHeaters.com, 2018. Work in progress, not complete as shown.

    [​IMG]

    © FluxerHeaters.com, 2018. Work in progress, not complete as shown.

    [​IMG]

    © FluxerHeaters.com, 2018. Work in progress, not complete as shown.

    [​IMG]

    © FluxerHeaters.com, 2018.

    Just wanted to share a little eye-candy before the weekend.

    I hope to have more info on this model next week. :D
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2018
  19. felon167inc

    felon167inc Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    291
    the smaller design would be of interest to me, any pics of that design?

    what batteries are you running with these units?

    Dynavap just showed teasers of their IH which is also a cup/mug style
     
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  20. Nina

    Nina Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    83
    They did?
    Where can I see it please?
    @mr_cfromcali I think the cup style induction heater looks cool:D
    although perhaps it would look more stable / secure if it were the other way round...ie the wide end on the bottom?
     
  21. felon167inc

    felon167inc Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    291
    It was apparently on the dv live video other night
    I saw pictures somewhere cant remember now where thought was here
     
  22. Nina

    Nina Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    83
    felon167inc likes this.
  23. mr_cfromcali

    mr_cfromcali Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    38
    Hi,

    Thanks for the replies.

    I do, but it's still not ready for prime time. I'll share a pic, though.

    This one has 3x 18650s. I have an alternate design for the same mug that will run 4x 18650 (2s2p), but it's a more time consuming, tighter build.

    I had heard they would be coming out with something eventually. Bad timing for me if they're launching it imminently, but that's out of my hands.

    Anyway, thanks.

    https://vaporasylum.com/threads/dynavap-induction-heater-test-unit.651/

    It's fairly bottom heavy w/the batteries. My goal was to keep it looking as stock as possible. I have a few other mugs in waiting if this one doesn't pan out, but there are a lot of things I like about this one. Besides, the prototype is almost done (a few more hours - designing takes considerably more time than building...). I'm liking it a lot, so I'll have one for myself in any event.

    Some family stuff this weekend, so I may not get back to this for a few days. I'll see what kind of time I can squeeze in.

    Thanks for the comments and feedback. :D

    =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

    Updated to add: the internals support pieces of the mug-based unit are made from garolite, a fiberglass reinforced epoxy resin. It isn't a form of plastic, or anything like plastic. It's a very strong, rigid, non-conductive, and phenolic (heat shielding) material. The final piece is going to be rock-solid. :D
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2018
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  24. mr_cfromcali

    mr_cfromcali Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    38
    OK, here's a pic, minus heat shielding and two sub-PCBs. The finished version will have a hole in the cover, and the cover will attach magnetically. Remember: This one isn't ready to go yet, so be patient. Not sure of the cost yet, but less than the mug based one, as it's a much, much simpler build.

    Power will be 2x 18650s, running at ~12VDC.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2018
  25. felon167inc

    felon167inc Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    291
    I like the size of this nice
    Keep us up to date with this please
     
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