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Fake Pax Vaporizers. Bootlegs?

Discussion in 'Counterfeit Vaporizers' started by mrweed, Mar 29, 2013.

  1. mrweed

    mrweed vaporizer review blogger

    Messages:
    474
    mod note: This post has been edited to remove information that could be used to find vendors of counterfeit Pax units. The entire thread has been edited so that the remaining posts are helpful in identifying counterfeits, not in how to obtain them. Please see vtac's policy statement for the reason we have taken these actions.

    Since I'm based in Germany and I'm searching for an oportunity to buy a pax (which seems impossible atm) I came across two Pax Vaporizers on [deleted]. Both chinese producers use pictures from the original ploom product.

    this one is clearly a fake, because they also sell fake magic flights

    [URL deleted]

    but this fabric claims they are the official producers... and they don't sell anything else than this product. Also the original Pax is produced somewhere in south china. would be too good to be true, cause they just want 69.40$ for a simgle piece (i found this information on another page where they offer it,too)

    [URL deleted]

    since, i couldn't get the official ploom one over here, i would have bought it and found out if it's a bootleg myself, to be honest, but they don't answer my requests?! maybe for the same reason than pax (europe).

    what do you think?!

    probably they are both fakes! and chinese vaporizers are mostly very bad and i can't recommend using them, but out of curiosity i would love to see one of these next to the original
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 16, 2014
  2. charliedontsurf

    charliedontsurf Glassblower

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    Location:
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    You read about this kind of thing happening to companies that choose to manufacture in China. There's a chance that the very same people who were contracted to make the Pax for the Ploom company are now churning out unauthorized copies.
  3. pakalolo

    pakalolo RoboMod v3.17 (ticking) Staff Member

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    It doesn't matter whether you sell them on eBay or what the scale would be, if you become a vendor you must register properly if you want to post on FC. I'm not sure we'll welcome a bootlegger, however.

    Ploom has no obligation to serve any market that they do not want to enter. That's a business decision. That doesn't mean it's morally right for anyone to start selling illegal copies, but your conscience is your business. People in the UK and Europe can do what they do for thousands of other products that aren't sold locally: import for themselves, or buy from bootleggers like you plan to become, or (here's a crazy idea!) buy something else. You'll be no different from the street marketer in Hong Kong who sells bootleg CDs containing thousands of dollars of pirated software. Your choice, of course.
    Oscar_Milde and hassan like this.
  4. tepictoton

    tepictoton Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, but this is getting a bit too hmmmm like mind police or something....

    We will see who we will welcome as a forum, no? Or is this now down to the personal opinion of mods?

    Not trying to be unnice or anything, just saying what I am seeing here.

    we can have different opinions about these companies, fact of the matter is they exist. This is a place for people to share experience and knowledge no?

    Or lets see it from a different point of view, maybe there is a market for both...?

    And please do not get me wrong, I would also love to see a world with only loving people and caring companies and so on, but I have a feeling that might be a bit unrealistic.

    Furthermore, customer is always king, and as such being told by Ploom no you cannot give us your money seems a bit like not really customer friendly. Companies can choose whatever strategy they want, but if you lived in europe and wanted one of these units, or a look-a-like, then what is wrong with that?

    and yes, you might also just look into something else then, I am not going to disagree on that one, but some people choose otherwise.
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  5. pakalolo

    pakalolo RoboMod v3.17 (ticking) Staff Member

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    I don't think you understand how this forum works. This is not a democracy. Whether we permit bootleggers isn't up to the members, it's up to vtac and the staff. We have the reputation of FC to consider and we're not about to compromise it by promoting the sale of illegal copies. If you feel that this is too much like "mind police" then you're free to not participate. Perhaps you should review the rules and terms of service, particularly these:
    • Rules are interpreted and applied at staff discretion.
    • Public discussions of staff decisions are not permitted on the site. If you have any concerns or queries relating to a staff decision please take it up in private with a staff member.
    • If you don’t like the rules or the moderation, feel free not to visit.
  6. Vidi

    Vidi New Member

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    3
    hi guys i received 10 units from [deleted], there are some differences between the genuine pax and that one, mainly in the colors, but overall it works great, i got it with a box which seems legit though after comparing it to the real one i found the inside was different.

    mod note: Portions of the original message not relevant to identifying counterfeits have been removed.
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 16, 2014
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  7. mrweed

    mrweed vaporizer review blogger

    Messages:
    474
    i find that pretty interesting. what's the problem with the colors?
    did you recieve a green one? if so, it's a official color. The chinese had it first though, because i saw this color on alibaba before it was released by ploom! true story

    mod note: Portions of the original message not relevant to identifying counterfeits have been removed.
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 16, 2014
  8. Vidi

    Vidi New Member

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    3
    I was reffering to the light color, they offered me the green color, but i didnt take it. i took the blue and black.
    The temperature colors are pale blue, purple and red. while its heating up it will show you the color of the temperature you chose, when its ready its will show blue.
    also you can only check the battery level after you take out the mouthpiece, shaking it with the mouthpiece on wont give you anything.
    last thing i noticed is that the standby mode isn't working well.
    ill post some photos if you'd like
    mrweed and salivape like this.
  9. salivape

    salivape Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    U.K.
    @Vidi how I envy you ya lucky bugger lol. No Im glad to hear someone has had better luck than me! Can you put up some photos? Im mainly interested in the packaging to see if it's the same as mine.

    my heat lights are blue, purple and red also
    Vidi and mrweed like this.
  10. Vidi

    Vidi New Member

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    3
    @salivape you should contact them, i have one that is not heating up and they are sending me a new one.
    mine also says plaom on the sterilizing wipe but other than that its ploom everywhere.

    [​IMG]

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  11. salivape

    salivape Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    264
    Location:
    U.K.
    @Vidi your box is much better than mine. Mine has the same image on the front but it just says 'pax vaporizer' in plain lettering. The box is also differnt in that mine has a lid rather than a slide out drawer. Also yours looks more genuine with the logo printed on the back of the unit. I'm pretty gutted.

    I have contacted the seller but I was hoping I could fix it with some lube (which they didn't supply) to save me waiting but if that doesn't work I will be asking for a replacement. Thanks for posting the photos!

    My box is like the ones pictured by this seller, although they've changed it from when I last checked.

    Also would you mind taking a photo with the mouthpiece off, looking down the vapour tube? I feel like maybe mine isn't aligned quite as it should be.

    mod note: Portions of the original message not relevant to identifying counterfeits have been removed.
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 16, 2014
    Vidi and mrweed like this.
  12. salivape

    salivape Well-Known Member

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    264
    Location:
    U.K.
    @Gabe you just reminded me, I'm pretty sure these knock offs don't have party mode. No mention of it in the manual and rolling it like you are supposed to doesn't activate it. That doesn't bother me as I probably wouldn't use it anyway but it could be a deal breaker for others.

    mod note: Portions of the original message not relevant to identifying counterfeits have been removed.
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 16, 2014
  13. Mylifeasazombie

    Mylifeasazombie New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Hello guys, first off i'd like to thank you guys for being so awesome! I've been a long time observer of this pax thread and would like to give you guys a comparison of my Alibaba pax copy and my authentic... I recently purchased a [counterfeit] pax from [deleted] And was quite frankly blown away with the quality of the product... So much so i purchased a real pax from my local head shop.

    Black = authentic
    Blue = Alibaba pax copy

    [​IMG]
    The outside packaging is identical... So ebay'ers watch out!

    My box for the "authentic pax" seems darker but i think thats due to it being in the window at the shop. But then again you will notice the booklet is darker as well.(see further below )

    [​IMG]

    again the back is slightly darker on the authentic...

    [​IMG]
    The cardboard inlay on the authentic has the cross pattern where as the copy has a white felt type of material. Both have pull tab!

    [​IMG]
    Both units are identical weight feel look and size. all materials from the fake fir the authentic perfectly and vice versa! So the parts are real or at least seem to be.

    [​IMG]
    The copy does not feature the "PAX" logo on the back...

    [​IMG]
    Book let and cleaning kit! Has a color difference on the booklet... The copy does not come with pipe cleaners or lube.

    [​IMG]
    This right here is the major difference between the 2 units... The led indicator light on the copy goes by a completely different color scheme...

    Light blue - low
    Purple - medium
    Red/pink - high

    Also the book on the copy claims to only heat up to 200 degrees or something... I found that the performance of the copy was pretty much equal to the authentic when it comes to heating up.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    The spelling on the copy is correct every where but on the alcohol wipes!

    Addition things...
    The copy has no serial number under the mouth piece so no warranty...

    There is NO PART MODE on the copy or at least i haven't found a way to activate it!

    Again the lex indicator light scheme is not the same ex: When it ready to hit instead of flashing green it shows purple.

    Lastly i couldn't get the copy to charge with the mouth piece on so i took it off and it charged fine the authentic can be charged with mouth piece attached!

    mod note: Portions of the original message not relevant to identifying counterfeits have been removed.
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 16, 2014
  14. flitze

    flitze Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    Germany
    these differences we have already found

    0) the main difference: it is fake! not by ploom = not genuie ect.
    the many small differences:

    1) $ -150 (up to)
    2) other light colors (running / charging / temp.)
    3) battery status only WITHOUT mouthpiece (Accor ding to the manufacturer Should be different in the new version)
    4) apparently there are only 2 status colors: green and red.yellow I have not seen until now
    5) charging indicator only WITHOUT mouthpiece.
    but so can be downloaded with (accor ding to the manufacturer Should be different in the new version)
    6) other battery (2200mah instead of 2300mah Disclosures / original 2600mah)
    accordingly less running time
    7) other charger (5V instead of 9V output)
    8) another screen
    9), the metal Seems to be brushed and anodized or so
    in the original works, the painted surface Appears (as the photos seem to me)
    10) other temperatures. I can not verify Whether the disclosures are correct.
    low 190° mid 210° high 230°
    11) different logo or no logo & other screw
    12) some marks of production are Significantly different (at the plastic for example)
    13) serial number STICKER Which Relates to the warranty in china (support is ok - had a bit correspondence)
    14) NO party mode
    15) own interpretation of the pcb motherboard
    16) different weight (fake 89g / 96g original)
    17) no mouthpiec-lubricant (but the rest of the cleaning kit)
    18) the case / the metal has a different finish.
    it looks more like brushed anodized aluminum.
    edit:
    19) another "snap-in/out" mechanism."2-click-system"if the mouthpiece is outside
    and you push it in ,you can hear a first click. and if you push it deeper it clicks again and the mouthpiece dont stay inside.hard to descripe.
    did I forget something?

    mod note: Portions of the original message not relevant to identifying counterfeits have been removed.
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 16, 2014
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  15. Francisco93

    Francisco93 Member

    Messages:
    4
    no lubricant..i think the pax cannot work without it..any alternatives to the lubricant?,cuz we will eventually run into a problem without it..
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 16, 2014
  16. Nlx22

    Nlx22 New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Hi, first i'm sorry for my bad english.
    I asked a guy who got both fake and real pax on youtube to make a short video to compare the efficiency of both vaporizers and i believe it could help some here.
    He doesn't explain everything but at least he give his opinion.

    Personnaly, this guy saved me 100$.
    He also did a video comparing the appearance and the packaging of both vaporisers, check his videos.
    I hope it could help some.
    Peace
  17. CumBustion

    CumBustion Member

    Messages:
    2
    pink when warming up, green when temperature reached.
    as for temp settings yellow orange red, so basically as original.

    mod note: Portions of the original message not relevant to identifying counterfeits have been removed.
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 16, 2014
  18. MileHi

    MileHi Member

    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    Colorado
    There doesn't seem to be a good way to post pics. I'll try this. The original PAX is on the left in all of the pictures. The knockoff is on the right.

    mod note: Portions of the original message not relevant to identifying counterfeits have been removed.

    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 16, 2014
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  19. MileHi

    MileHi Member

    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    Colorado
    There are "ridges" in the finish of the fake one, and the pic that shows both powered on shows the real PAX is purple in color while warming, and the fake one shows the temp selected (red - high in this case) while warming. Also the font on the "Designed in San Francisco" label is slightly different. All in all, it's a pretty good replica, and the manual is detailed and accurate with the colors of the indicator.
  20. MileHi

    MileHi Member

    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    Colorado
    I doubt any of the fake PAXes have a 9v output on the charger. The Chinese look like they came up with their own circuit board that runs on 5v not 9v. The voltage regulator was probably cheaper.

    mod note: Portions of the original message not relevant to identifying counterfeits have been removed.
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 16, 2014
  21. Ryandunn188

    Ryandunn188 Member

    Messages:
    7
    Location:
    uk


    is this one of you guys??

    not sure if its been posted but its a great side by side
  22. lwien

    lwien Well-Known Member

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    10,529
    Location:
    Arcadia, California
    Is there anyone else in this thread besides me who would not buy a knock-off regardless if it was a good knock-off or not? I just have an issue with the whole concept of buying anything that's a fake copy. Besides the gamble that one takes in doing this, for me, the pride of ownership goes down to zero. Supporting a company or individual who is partaking in ripping off an existing product, for me, has ethical issues that I don't want to contribute to.
  23. pakalolo

    pakalolo RoboMod v3.17 (ticking) Staff Member

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    Not me. These aren't knock-offs though, they are counterfeits. Everything about them is meant to fool the unwary into thinking the article is genuine, hence the recent switch in the screw used. If the box said on it "Pox by Phoom" then it would be a knock-off—but it says Pax by Ploom. That's much worse than a knock-off as far as I'm concerned. These sellers might be upfront saying that their products aren't genuine, but they say that with a wink to unscrupulous retailers who will not be as forthright.
    nopartofme and RUDE BOY like this.
  24. Lo

    Lo Combustion free since '09 Staff Member

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  25. MileHi

    MileHi Member

    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    Colorado
    HAPPY NEW YEARS from Colorful Colorado! I wish you a prosperous and joyous 2014.

    Now on to the reviews. While I was on vacation, I had my genuine PAX by Ploom repaired by the Ploom folks. It was about a year old and would not charge. I bought it through VapeWorld (full price - authorized reseller) who contacted Ploom and arranged service. Within a few days, Ploom contacted me with a free shipping email that I printed out. I sent it back in the original box. A few days later, I checked my email, and had a message from Ploom that my PAX was unrepairable and that they were replacing it with a new one - SWEET!

    I had already contacted [deleted] about my dead fake PAX, and he agreed to ship me the "new" model for free. No problem. He sent tracking, it arrived.

    Here's what the new model looks like:

    [​IMG]][​IMG]][​IMG]][​IMG]
    I personally think the fit, feel, and finish is much better than the first version. No ridges on the finish. The paint work is far closer to the powder coated like feel of the genuine PAX, and the lettering even was closer to the genuine article. Slightly different spacing and font. No rattles when shaking it. But it has the dreaded Philips head screw. No big deal in my book. This is a far better fake.

    Here are some pics of the genuine PAX on the left and the fake PAX on the left in each picture:

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Notice the pictures with the mouthpieces. On the first fake I bought from [deleted], the mouthpiece looked just like the genuine, but when you tried to clean it with a pipe cleaner, it had a tendency to tear. On the new fake model, the mouthpiece is more round, less oval, and the plastic is beefier. But, the plastic has less of a shiny appearance.

    On to some temp testing, with my handy Harbor Freight multimeter and thermocouple, since those ads like to show meters testing PAXes. Again, the genuine is on the left, the fake is on the right. All testing was done with a screen in place.

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    On high, the genuine PAX registered 419 degrees F (215 C), the fake came in at 416 F (213.33 C). Not bad, 3 degrees F difference. But while I was measuring, I notice the temp would swing more on the fake the the genuine unit. Ploom has better temp regulation, but the oven on the fake still gets hot enough.

    I had to take both the genuine PAX and the fake on a "test drive" side by side. No, I am not going to post videos on youtube showing how big a cloud each one blows. You will have to take my word for it. I did the same strain in each, on the same temp setting. My wife assisted. We started on medium - great clouds out off both, gave it a stir when it started seeming burnt, and finished off on high. Great clouds on both.

    Now the main complaint I have with the new fake from [deleted] is the motion sensor. The fake is still a 5V unit with no party mode. Now party mode looks cool, and keeps the unit from idling, but sometimes I want stealth, not disco lighting. But the motion sensors on all of the fakes - new, old, whatever, are finicky. You can hear the mechanism move. You can't on the genuine. And on the one I received, it was kind of like it had to be broken in, or after about 10 seconds of going green, it would idle out blue.

    Oh yeah, and the colors. The colors on this model much more closely match the one of the genuine. Green when ready, blue-violet pulsing when warming, yellow for low heat, orange for medium, and red for hot. Pretty good. But it charges red, not orange. Ok, kind of different. Here are pictures of the genuine on the left and the fake on the right warming and charging:

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    A few last things. The genuine PAX charges faster. Both last about the same amount of time

    So my overall impression of the fake PAX, no thumbs up, but no thumbs down - all based on the motion sensor. If it was dead on reliable, or if it breaks in well, it would be a thumbs up.

    On the subject of fakes and counterfeits - and that's what these devices are, if you can afford a genuine PAX by Ploom, buy it. It is a great product. They have great customer service. It is their design. If someone "procured" my design and started manufacturing fakes, I would be pissed! So if you can support it, buy it from the genuine maker.

    mod note: Portions of the original message not relevant to identifying counterfeits have been removed.
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 16, 2014
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