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Extracting CBDa with cream??

Discussion in 'Concentrates' started by MinnBobber, Nov 6, 2019.

  1. MinnBobber

    MinnBobber Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,328
    Hi, anyone with good insight on extracting CBDa/CBD from legal CBD flowers, using cream?

    I have my first batch (1 gram) in the sous vide machine.
    What liquid temps have worked best? I set it at 150 F which is well below the 180 F curdling temp.
    I might raise it to 160ish??

    I have the flower pinched into tiny clumps, inside a hemp paper tea filter. That filter is in a small bottle with 3 TBSP? of half and half cream. That lid is lightly closed and sits inside a silicone sealable sous vide pouch.

    I will steep it for maybe 3 hours and then squeeze out the cream from the filter as best I can---garlic press?
    For a future bigger load, I could use my shop press and caged rosin plates??

    I'm excited as more reading last night on CBDa got me cranked to try it.
    R Mechoulam has found CBDa to be much more potent than CBD for some conditions.

    This method should yield a low rate of decarboxylation and give me CBDa to try.

    Probably a nice CBDa hot chocolate treat....

    What's your experience with cream or coconut oil extraction??
     
  2. invertedisdead

    invertedisdead High Standards

    Messages:
    5,083
    Location:
    The Full Spectrum
    I'm not sure, but I'm glad you made this thread as I just picked up some organic cream the other day to do a few experiments myself. What's interesting about cream is the fat and water is naturally emulsified - been reading about cannabis bioavailability and curious to see if the higher water content of the cream allows for faster onset or enhanced perceived potency/bioavailability versus other infusion methods (like my standard coconut oil capsules)

    Was reading an article the other day about the fat globules in cream being smaller in size than other fats for quicker absorption, that's what has me curious to experiment with cream as I'm intrigued by water soluble nano emulsions, and from some brief research it seems like cream may be a good home solution to vaguely attempt to approximate that concept.

    Check this out https://milkgenomics.org/article/milk-fat-built-digestion/

    I'm thinking of doing a rosin extraction and then infusing into cream as that's usually how I like to work, and the infusion time should be shorter since the cannabinoids have already been extracted. I'll be interested in hearing how your flower infusion comes out. I've been incorporating and researching THCA into my infusions as it appears to work on many of the same ailments as CBD, was intrigued with THCA after reading an article from Dustin Sulak MD about a patient whose "CBD oil" they tested didn't contain any CBD at all, nor THC, they found it just contained a tiny amount of THCA, and it was working on 1/10th - 1/100th of the equivalent dose of THC.
     
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  3. MinnBobber

    MinnBobber Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,328
    I am excited to finally try this experiment and CBDa as I've been meaning to for months!!!

    My CBDa cream experiment is a precursor to CBAa rosin extraction---maybe squish at 170F to avoid decarbing it.
    Have not really done much of any squishing yet.
    Hoped to find a legal CBD flower with 20% CBDa, but most of those with 20% + CBD claims are "suspect" IMO.

    The really interesting thing is the R Mechoulam, the godfather of cannabis research, says:
    The naturally occurring but unstable CBD acid (CBDA) is a thousand times more potent than CBD in binding to a particular serotonin receptor thought to be responsible for alleviating nausea and anxiety. OMG

    And if that's the case for anxiety and nausea, it is likely to be a powerful agent for other issues.

    Have you squished CBD buds, with what kind of yields? Very very interested in how that went.
    Real CBD figures seem to be more like 15% for high grade legal CBD flower.
    Hopefully, more breeding will develop much higher % for future CBD flower!

    I need to read your linked article now, thanks
     
  4. Sick Vape

    Sick Vape Solar Dabs

    Messages:
    383
    Location:
    Guinea
    I think with the method of @invertedisdead, making rosin first and mixing after, you are more likely to have CBDa, while in the sous-vide method you probably have a bit of conversion to CBD happening.

    I have squished quite a bit of quality CBD flowers and find the yields to be comparable to what I read about quality THC flowers. I do not know how high in CBDa my rosin is. I also wish I had a possibility to tell if the CBDa is already decarboxylated or not. (Sometimes the flowers are old)

    I am unsure in this moment if the decarboxylation rates of CBD are similar to these of THC, but I assume so.

    The temperatures/times occurring when squishing do not decarboxylate THCa substantially, apparently. I assume it is the same for CBDa.

    BTW I love THCa tincture, too.

    I tried to wash my used and emptied rosin bags with alcohol to get me some tincture. Tasty!

    I sometimes cook used parchment paper with some milk (and sometimes some alcohol in the beginning), to get the last bits of rosin, that seeped into my parchment paper, out.
    The result is a tasty milk with a nice effect.
    I do not know if cream can get absorbed faster by the body than pure fat, but maybe you get a similar effect than with lecithin, that also emulsifies water and fat (like cream is) and is said to rise absorption of cannabinoids.

    All the above works for THCa or CBDa too.


    P.S.: The "best" way to get CBD cream is to feed a cow CBD hemp. Then extract similar to cream :D
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2019
    shredder likes this.
  5. shredder

    shredder Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,518
    However you made it, I'd use lecithin. It's an emulsifier. Basically it makes oil particles smaller, and easier to be mixed and absorbed.

    I use sunflower lecithin powder. I mix it with coconut oil and heat and stir on a coffee warmer. When it's clear and the powder is gone, then I mix in concentrate. Either rosin or RSO.
     
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  6. Sick Vape

    Sick Vape Solar Dabs

    Messages:
    383
    Location:
    Guinea
    How much did you add?
    I once tried to add to some warm abv coconut oil. It made a huge clump that tasted a bit like plastic.
    I thought it did not mix back then. Maybe the coconut oil was too hot.
     
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  7. shredder

    shredder Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,518
    I add 1/2 tsp per one fluid ounce of coconut oil.

    It won't mix instantly. Gentle heat, and stirring work for me to get it mixed.
     
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  8. Sick Vape

    Sick Vape Solar Dabs

    Messages:
    383
    Location:
    Guinea
    Thanks alot for your reply.
    I probably did add too much into too hot oil. :D

    Just to make sure I got your reply right, because I am no so used to us units:
    tsp is teaspoon
    and what is more of a mystery to me, 1 fluid ounce of oil is 29ml or very roughly 30g or like 1 oz of bud?

    edit: because then there is us fl oz and imperial fl oz? holy maybe there is ru fl oz or continental fl oz. Caribbean fl oz weights only ⅔.
     
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  9. shredder

    shredder Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,518
    A fluid ounce like what's marked on a US measuring cup. Tsp = teaspoon

    What you probably did wrong before was not to stir. Lecithin in powder form is still a fat, and will melt into coconut oil when you stir it. It might take a few minutes, but not long.
     
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  10. MinnBobber

    MinnBobber Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,328
    I extracted one gram of CBD flower with the sous vide machine.

    I had previously done this with ABV, like 7 grams of ABV, which came out as easy to mask the flavor with chocolate.

    This canna-cream with virgin CBD flowers yielded some potent but nasty tasting cream. Chocolate addition doesn't mask the heavy taste.
    And, it has a caustic and nasty effect on my throat/mouth. It feels like it is almost burning the membrane.
    Is that normal?

    It was some potent CBD though, and lasted for several hours. I used about 1/3 of it.

    I wonder if one could water cure the flower and avoid the caustic? Is that likely from the chlorophyll ?

    Or maybe this method needs the cream to go into capsules, big ass capsules?
     

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