Edibles never work: Crohn's, Dabs, and Tolerance plateaus

[4DaCrohns]

Edibles dont get me medicated
A open discussion into the idea of tolerance coupled with stomach or intestinal diseases inhibits absorption of THC/CBD

Powerful, plentiful and delicious, edibles have a solid place in the medical marijuana community. With many patients who prefer to medicate without inhalation of smoke, or at least to minimize their intake, edibles are the obvious choice (next to vaporization).

As many have experienced, edibles (depending) pack quite a punch. For some, too much even. But for the high tolerance patient, they are a god sent. However, with the rise of hash oil (wax, shatter, budder etc.) do edibles fall short?

For the purpose of anonymity, in our example we shall use the pseudonym David,

David has been using medical marijuana for over 2 years (started at 18, now 20). Stemming from his life long complications with Crohns disease, he plummeted into marijuana culture. Frequent dispensary visits, daily usage, and an abundance of strong weed always available. Flowers never failed in getting David blown, nor did edibles.

After the first year, however, David wished to pursue vaporization of oils. Mostly due to the growing hype, strength, and a general looking out for his vocal career. He starts out with a G-Pen, then moved to the Omicron, and eventually landed his own oil rig. And after months of dabbing, his tolerance was tough. Needed multiple dabs to get a buzz, bud did nothing and edibles were nothing but tasty.

Slight tolerance breaks attempted, but pain is a bitch, and left David with nothing except a lower tolerance for a short period of time. Accepting that pain was required to lower his tolerance, David quit wax and just vaped or smoked bud. After a while a a coupel more 7 day tolerance breaks ... he could feel weed again. Nothing comparable to what he had in the previous year, but something....enough to medicate.

Interestingly, edibles had no effect. Hash oil made, name brand, greatly reviewed - all did nothing. In addition, wax highs and bud highs are still definitely lack luster....nothing at all near what the average stoner person feels.

I've often pondered this issue. David has crohns disease, often times he doesnt absorb the nutrients he should be and has an amazingly powerful metabolism (all medically tested and confirmed, not guess work). Could this defeat the purpose of edibles? If he cannot absorb regular nutrients efficiently...why should THC/CBD be any different? But, if he has trouble absorbing THC/CBD , why can he still get "high" from wax and buds now but not edibles? Has wax destoryed his canna receptors? What can be done?

As stated before, David is a vocalist. Classically trained and is working towards that being his main form of income. Its also his dream job. He has so many professors and directors supporting him, and he wants to live up to the opportunity granted to him...but his needs for constant inhalation of vapor still leave the chords irritated.

My question, and introduction into the FC community revolves around this issue. Came here looking to find the smoothest vaporizer for obvious reasons, but now am searching for an answer to my troubles, and hopefully some wonderful insight and conversation between other members here. From my readings, I can see there is a nice level of intelligence here...not some punk budtender who (when i explain any of this to them) either looks at me like im crazy or just tries to offer me their "strongest" product there saying it will fix my tolerance problem.

I look forward to discussing this with you all, and thank you for the time taken to read this...i know its a lot.

Sincerely,

David

PS - pardon my switch from 3rd to 1st person. Horrible literary move on my part, but my point was made..and thats all I wanted.

 

[JCat]

I feel for ya' ... doesn't do what it used to for me either ... but it's still my preferred medication (after almost 2 decades, my tolerance is what my tolerance is ... the only things I find help are varying the strains and vaporizers as different vaporizers have a different "vape signature"--thanks stickstones for coining this phrase!)

I find by varying vapes and strains my tolerance stays at about 2-3g per day and I use some concentrates and tinctures to supplement especially for convenience (and I stay pretty much mildly high all the time ... perfectly fine to have a conversation with a police officer at a community event or while being pulled over by a ride program ... but definitely a noticeable effect and it does the job for me medically although I miss the days of getting blasted )

 

[Crohnie]

I also have Crohn's and I've noticed that edibles don't always have an effect on me...or it's very mild. I had a quad dose cheeba chew last week and it did almost nothing. And I was worried because I was warned not to eat a whole one.

Pretty weird coincidence that "David" and I are both classically trained singers who have Crohn's disease, vape herb, and USE FC!

Good luck to you in your career. Don't let Crohn's destroy your chances for a job as a classical singer. I always regret I wasn't strong enough to save mine.

 

[Enchantre]

I do not have Crohn's, but I am familiar with its effects, from friends, relatives, and anecdotal accounts.

I have seen two very different dietary approaches make serious attempts to "cure" it, but mostly they might, MIGHT, make one asymptomatic at best, and at least hopefully reduce symptoms.

One approach, the first I've seen with results, was the Raw Vegan diet. In the short term, it can be very helpful, but I would not recommend it for anything beyond a few months at the most (from personal experience). The other would be Paleo style eating. In particular, that branch of the paleo world that deals with digestive disease & allergies.
The main common denominator is elimination of known gut irritants, such as grains, sugars, seeds, and alcohol. Nightshades, FODMAPS, legumes, and PUFAs are usually eliminated or drastically reduced.

Wow... sorry, that was a bit overboard. Yup, I'm stoned.

Okay, onto the subject of edibles... I would make the guess that the gut inflammation, and the resulting auto-immune response is preventing the proper digestion & absorption of the cannabis. The liver, overloaded from the auto-immune response, cannot properly process the cannabis and release it to the bloodstream. Many edibles are made from items that create inflammation during digestion - this is my biggest gripe about them - things like wheat, corn, soy, and sugars.

Cannabis travels best in fats. I prefer to just use cannabutter or canna-coconut oil, often straight, as an edible. Put it on your veggies, rather than wrapping it in sugar & flour (brownie).

I have fibro, which for me provides chronic nerve pain and muscle weakness. I've tried oil pens, flowers, and dabbing, along with edibles. Even if I am not feeling the MMJ, not being high, if I have it in my system, the nerve pain is reduced. I cycle through my strains, and my methods, to keep from raising my tolerance too much.

I also think that even if our brains learn how to compensate really quickly from hitting MMJ, the internal, medical benefits stay the same - I feel like my "head high" becomes a "body high" much quicker than it did at first. Yeah, I'm not as "high" feeling, and not as long, but the relief I feel is still there.

 

[WaterBongs]

I suffer from IBD I believe it was, with a lot of acid reflux to treat, and an entire digestion system in havoc. I have many similar symptoms to Chron's.

I've always personally been a heavy medicate-r, needing lots of pot compared to many and preferring to be intensely baked all the time. Usually it takes a lot of edibles to get me to the same kind of place I'd expect from a dab, vape, or bong hit, but it is still achievable. Smoking can personally at times exacerbate symptoms by increasing acid production, putting heaviness on lungs, killing my throat etc.

Even smaller amounts of edibles alone will provide enough relief to at least get me asleep at night, comfortable, and finally wanting to eat haha. I use my stash of already-vaped weed in big graham cracker sized edibles after even heavily vaping on it, and receive a pretty great body high and relaxed head.

Throw a few claim dabs on top of that and you have enough "leftovers" to completely medicate and enjoy the whole night.

 

[vaporonly]

Okay, onto the subject of edibles... I would make the guess that the gut inflammation, and the resulting auto-immune response is preventing the proper digestion & absorption of the cannabis. The liver, overloaded from the auto-immune response, cannot properly process the cannabis and release it to the bloodstream. Many edibles are made from items that create inflammation during digestion - this is my biggest gripe about them - things like wheat, corn, soy, and sugars.

Cannabis travels best in fats. I prefer to just use cannabutter or canna-coconut oil, often straight, as an edible. Put it on your veggies, rather than wrapping it in sugar & flour (brownie).

i'm not an expert but I think this makes a lot of sense from what i've read.

there are many benefits to using coconut oil, i would try that.

http://www.ehow.com/facts_5652049_coconut-crohn_s-disease.html

this link says

The nutrients in coconut promote digestion and the absorption of nutrients that people with Crohn's disease otherwise have trouble extracting.

i would consider trying coconut oil even on it's own to see if it helps and bonus if it works for edibles.

edibles can be made with concentrates, and you can make them quite potent.

you could also skip the food part all together and just take canni-coconut oil in pills.

 

[4DaCrohns]

The amount of information I've gained from here, in such short time, is astounding!

I never anticipated how much you guys would have to say, its refreshing.
I have a lot to say in response, but am dabbed out at the moment . So i should have something in reply by tonight! (ill merge or delete this post so im not back to back posting)

Again thanks so much for the input! Special shout-out to any IBD or IBS people out there! No understands us like each other xD

Be back soon

 

[Mark4MMJ]

Edibles dont get me medicated
A open discussion into the idea of tolerance coupled with stomach or intestinal diseases inhibits absorption of THC/CBD

Powerful, plentiful and delicious, edibles have a solid place in the medical marijuana community. With many patients who prefer to medicate without inhalation of smoke, or at least to minimize their intake, edibles are the obvious choice (next to vaporization).

As many have experienced, edibles (depending) pack quite a punch. For some, too much even. But for the high tolerance patient, they are a god sent. However, with the rise of hash oil (wax, shatter, budder etc.) do edibles fall short?

For the purpose of anonymity, in our example we shall use the pseudonym David,

David has been using medical marijuana for over 2 years (started at 18, now 20). Stemming from his life long complications with Crohns disease, he plummeted into marijuana culture. Frequent dispensary visits, daily usage, and an abundance of strong weed always available. Flowers never failed in getting David blown, nor did edibles.

After the first year, however, David wished to pursue vaporization of oils. Mostly due to the growing hype, strength, and a general looking out for his vocal career. He starts out with a G-Pen, then moved to the Omicron, and eventually landed his own oil rig. And after months of dabbing, his tolerance was tough. Needed multiple dabs to get a buzz, bud did nothing and edibles were nothing but tasty.

Slight tolerance breaks attempted, but pain is a bitch, and left David with nothing except a lower tolerance for a short period of time. Accepting that pain was required to lower his tolerance, David quit wax and just vaped or smoked bud. After a while a a coupel more 7 day tolerance breaks ... he could feel weed again. Nothing comparable to what he had in the previous year, but something....enough to medicate.

Interestingly, edibles had no effect. Hash oil made, name brand, greatly reviewed - all did nothing. In addition, wax highs and bud highs are still definitely lack luster....nothing at all near what the average stoner person feels.

I've often pondered this issue. David has crohns disease, often times he doesnt absorb the nutrients he should be and has an amazingly powerful metabolism (all medically tested and confirmed, not guess work). Could this defeat the purpose of edibles? If he cannot absorb regular nutrients efficiently...why should THC/CBD be any different? But, if he has trouble absorbing THC/CBD , why can he still get "high" from wax and buds now but not edibles? Has wax destoryed his canna receptors? What can be done?

As stated before, David is a vocalist. Classically trained and is working towards that being his main form of income. Its also his dream job. He has so many professors and directors supporting him, and he wants to live up to the opportunity granted to him...but his needs for constant inhalation of vapor still leave the chords irritated.

My question, and introduction into the FC community revolves around this issue. Came here looking to find the smoothest vaporizer for obvious reasons, but now am searching for an answer to my troubles, and hopefully some wonderful insight and conversation between other members here. From my readings, I can see there is a nice level of intelligence here...not some punk budtender who (when i explain any of this to them) either looks at me like im crazy or just tries to offer me their "strongest" product there saying it will fix my tolerance problem.

I look forward to discussing this with you all, and thank you for the time taken to read this...i know its a lot.

Sincerely,

David

PS - pardon my switch from 3rd to 1st person. Horrible literary move on my part, but my point was made..and thats all I wanted.

Hey David,

I so know what you mean. First of all, I am diabetic and over weight. I don't need to eat cookies and candies, medicated or not! So, after wasting some money on edibles from dispensaries, I started to study about the whole cooking with Cannabis thing. Over the past four months I have done lots of research and many home tests. and in a nutshell, I found that, for me, the cannabis has to be decarboxylated. It's all about time and temperature.

What I really want to tell you though, is what I tried recently and it works great, so I've been doing it ever since. I vape some finely dried and ground herb in my MFLB. I usually vape it until it is nice and brown. I save the vaped herb and then re grind it in a coffee grinder - pulse it a few times. Re-grinding the herb breaks up mostly all the little clumps of unvaped trich.s that are stuck together and the plant material basically pulverizes into a powder. It also aireates the herb so when you put it into a warm liquid fat it gets fat onto more surface area allowing faster absorbtion into your blood! I then use the ground vaped herbs to cook with. It works best to combine the herb with some kind of fat.

Easiest way I have found is melting the butter in a nonstick pan, add your vaped herb and a couple of eggs. Cook on low stirring frequently, the butter, eggs, and herb all bind together nicely. If you burn the eggs. you've burnt some of the herb. That tastes bad. You’ll have to experiment with amounts, but for me 1-1.5g's of vaped and re-ground herb medicates me in about an hour and lasts a long time. Just a few days ago I cooked tortillas with the herb inside mixed up with shredded cheese and a little sour cream. I put 1.5g’s in each of those bad boys and I got super stoned in about an hour, and I stayed stoned for 4 hours. I shit you not!

Last tip. Get an eye loupe, cheap on amazon, and look at your herb after you’ve vaped it. See if there are any trichomes left. I hate wasting trich.’s.

Sorry so long. Good Luck

 

[Mark4MMJ]

Here's the two best articles I've found on decarboxylation, if anyone is interested.

Edibles ONLY work for me if the THC is Decarbed, and there needs to be a LOT of it in the recipe.

Link 1: http://is.gd/7EdS89
Link 2: http://is.gd/7TZ3Yb

It seems that my MFLB does a darn good job @ decarbing my herb, while still giving me a few good lower temp vapes so I get some of the other, more delicate cannabinoids that higher temps can destroy.

Here's a linkk for that info: http://is.gd/QzlVFV

~ SMMF - Stay Medicated My Friends ~

 

[djonkoman]

Easiest way I have found is melting the butter in a nonstick pan, add your vaped herb and a couple of eggs. Cook on low stirring frequently, the butter, eggs, and herb all bind together nicely. If you burn the eggs. you've burnt some of the herb. That tastes bad.

any reason why you're using low heat?

because that sounds very similar to how I sometimes make (non-medicated) stirred eggs for breakfast, but I prefer a higher(between medium and high), so that the yellow and white don't mix completely. would be curious to make it with some abv, since I have plenty of that and no plans for what to do with it. (I also usually use olive oil, and when I'm finished I add a pinch of salt and a generous amount of black pepper)

ontopic:
I don't have any medical issues related to my intestines, and I also seem to have a much higher tolerance for edibles than for vaping/smoking. I get the idea that the difference between people's base-tolerance/sensitivity for edibles is even bigger as with other methods of ingestion, that's why you often read the warnings online to start with a low dose, people having bad experiences with edibles etc. that's the siude of the spectrum of people with a high sensitivity/ low base-tolerance for edibles.
the first time I had edibles(brownies I made myself) there were a few of those people, they only had 1-2 spoonfulls(the brownies were a bit too soft) and got incredible high off of that.

personally I'm on the other side of the spectrum, if I eat edibles, I have to keep on eating till I don't want to eat anything anymore, and then eat some more. and then I have about the same experience as other's from one dose(1 brownie/1 slice of cake, where I eat half the cake). for that reason I also don't have edibles often, the act of vaping is more enjoyable, even if the edibles taste really good.

(while smoking/vaping, my tolerance isn't significantly higher as those other people)

 

[Enchantre]

I would suggest, djonkoman, that you have your liver function checked, and maybe enlist some probiotics.

This is personal opinion, I am not a doctor.

 

[Mark4MMJ]

I would suggest, djonkoman, that you have your liver function checked, and maybe enlist some probiotics.

This is personal opinion, I am not a doctor.

I had to look up djonkoman, lol. FUNNY / gulp gul gulp

 

[Fame Is A Vapor]

David (4DaCrohns),

I also have Crohn's. Diagnosed 5 years ago, also with ankylosing spondylitis.

I would really take Enchantre's advice to heart.

While tolerance may increase, this shouldn't affect the amount of medicine reaching the CB2 receptors in the intestines, which is what helps reduce/control inflammation. In fact, I'd look at feeling less "high" as a positive, regaining some cognitive functionality. I'll admit, I didn't think of it this way at first either, and was scared that feeling less "high" meant that it wasn't working for me anymore. But having quit for the last year, and seeing my regression in almost every way, I now know that that wasn't the case. The only thing that has helped this past year while off MJ has been the adoption of the Paleo diet. Definitely saw a reduction of symptoms, but not a cessation. I will soon be getting my MMJ card, so I'm excited to see how the two together will combat my Crohn's.
A recent study by the Meir Medical Center in Israel has shown just how effective MMJ (amazingly the study was with sativa, not CBD-heavy indica) can be at producing a positive clinical response in Crohn's patients (10 of 11 patients saw a positive clinical response, 5 of those 11 achieved complete remission!) This study is what so convinced me to enroll in the MMJ program and begin a controlled program of MJ medication + improved diet. PM me if you want any suggestions for good Paleo cookbooks. Happy to help out where I can.
I wish you, and all the rest on this thread, the absolute best!

 

[4DaCrohns]

So much info here to digest! I've been taking alot of notes from you guys and creating my own little informational guide :3

A few things I would like to comment on,

@JCat , @Enchantre , @Fame Is A Vapor

Ya know, I didn't think about it that way, truly medicating without some much emphasis on needing to get 'high'. But during the school year I stopped medicating for about 2 weeks, both for tolerance purposes as well as a need to heal my throat for a performance, and it nearly lead me to get some painkillers from my doctor. Digestion was rough, and my mood flew all over the place. Finding out both of those are signs of an upcoming flare up i resumed my medicating and it fixed it almost instantly. At first i thought these were psychosomatic symptoms of withdrawal from cannabis, but reading what you all have posted leads me to the conclusion that I took away my only current anti inflammatory medication, and my most effective one to date! The last one they had me on was a steroid hybrid that messed with my body too much. So in theory, the only safe way to take a tolerance break (so that I dont have to destroy my throat all the time) would be to go back on prescriptions =P.

Its nice to see also that many of you recognize the supreme benefits of using cannabis everyday for crohns patients. I often feel judged for my frequent usage and am disheartened when they put me in the category of 'drug head'. Do they get shooting pains from strictures in their colon? Have they had their terminal illuim removed as well a section of their small intestine? *sigh* thanks you guys for understanding.

@Fame Is A Vapor , @Enchantre

I had no idea what the Paleo diet was, but I see that I follow the diet almost to a T already.

I'm mostly gluten free
Non-dairy
no meats
no whole grains
heavy avoidance of processed foods

I need to add in more fish, but I try to eat it as much as I can when i go out

My first GI doc was also a nutritionist, and was really good at setting up a diet plan for me. But having been years since I've seen him specifically, I would openly welcome the Paleo diet! Expect PM's from me asking for cookbook recommendations and even restaurant referrals that have gluten-free options.

I would also like to share that I made edibles the other day with some success! I was so excited that i found a recipe that worked .... or so I thought.

Firecrackers! Never had one before and this being my second time ever making edibles. The first being snicker doodles about a year and a half ago.

Anyways, I used gluten free pop chips as my cracker of choice and jif peanut butter. I know people will say Jif wasnt the ideal choice, but its not cross contaminated with other products in the factory like Skippy. I put about 2 - 3 dabs on each cracker and used some old kief I found as well. After they finished I took one cracker with wax in it and one with kief. They came out tasting...alright, but the effect was what got my attention. Nothing for an hour but then I got a rush of going up for about two hours, but declined quickly as well. The rush wasmt anything too spectacular, but enough to be noticeable (which is more than what I can usually say for edibles). However, upon the decline it seemed to stop at a certain level of high and stayed their for the rest of the duration (which was about another 2 - 3 hours).

Overall I can certainly say I was surprised. I took a two day tolerance break before making these, as well as ate them on an empty stomach, but ive done those steps before with edibles to no avail.

My excitement was quickly quelled upon my next ingestion. I felt nothing. I have not been able to get high from those crackers since that day. Maybe my body just threw me a freebie? Who knows. But I tried to take the advice ya'll gave on making edibles into account.

Again, thanks so much for the support and activeness of this forum. Its really nice to see such a welcoming and positive community. Hope this forum keeps going and more discussions get started!

Stay medicated, and stay safe my fellow crohnies

 

[Mark4MMJ]

Paleo Diet? Never heard of it. I've tried every weight loss plan known to man over the last 30+ yrs. but I've never heard of this. I googled it and these are the foods I crave and gain the most health from. Wow, awesome, Thanks!!

Don't worry about those who judge you. They don't know the situation or truth about medicinal cannabis. I used to judge potheads, even when I was one, but knowledge is power. Anytime someone seems skeptical or judgemental, I just ask them to google the Endocannabinoid system. The blank stares are PRICELESS. ~ VAPE ON BRO'