His_Highness
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king
Agreed....and.....
Someone will reply to the post, with fist raised, adamant that they drive better high let alone when they haven't used in hours.
Driving whilst high
- Thread starter bluenavey00
- Start date
Agreed....and.....
Someone will reply to the post, with fist raised, adamant that they drive better high let alone when they haven't used in hours.
Schlumples
Resident Otter
Is your implication that you can speak for all people better than themselves?Agreed....and.....
Someone will reply to the post, with fist raised, adamant that they drive better high let alone when they haven't used in hours.
Username checks out.
His_Highness
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king
Nope. Not speaking for all people better than themselves. Just pointing out the history of this thread when anything points out that driving high can be a problem.
If I'm interpreting the "Username checks out" comment correctly I guess I have to point out that my username was meant to represent the fact that I'm a guy and like to get high. Sorry if it offended.
Polarbearboy
Tokin' Away Since 1968
I jumped in the car ready to go snowshoeing, but when I got to the trailhead, the temp had only risen to 3 degrees F and the wind was stiff, and so I took two little draws and then went to a nearby wonderful microbrew pub and had fabulous tacos and an ale sampler. Its a three-day weekend up here and the ski throngs were on their way, plus it was a beautiful day, so I decided to drive another forty minutes to another excellent brew pub, to enjoy another of our northern offerings before the crowds arrive. This drive was through a big stunningly beautiful notch in the heart of the mountains on a bright sunny but wickedly cold day. I had another puff or two, and a big smile as I drove. At the pub, I had a mug(I'm a mug club member) and a half of my favorite IPA and some good chat. Then on my way back home, cutting through another notch in the mountains, after passing the last house, I stopped to pee and refilled my little Fury 2. A few fresh tokes took me up through the steep notch and down the North slope to home.
I've been doing this for many many years. Its now more than 25 years since I had a chargeable accident and probably twenty years since I got a ticket. Yes, I've been stopped. Even while toking! But I'm aware that doing what I do could be dangerous--so I am cautious. And I know these roads really really well.
I've been doing this for many many years. Its now more than 25 years since I had a chargeable accident and probably twenty years since I got a ticket. Yes, I've been stopped. Even while toking! But I'm aware that doing what I do could be dangerous--so I am cautious. And I know these roads really really well.
yogurtsauce
Well-Known Member
I drive high once in a while, but I don't like to. Even if I'm barely high, I'm still high. Driving high isn't just about yourself tbh, it involves a ton of other people. I personally think that it's incredibly selfish and dumb to drive high, even if you can. Just because you can doesn't mean you should.
Let's just say that weed makes you have a 1% higher chance of an accident, that's still non-0. And then let's say that you're a part of that 1%. If you weren't high you wouldn't have had an accident, and now you probably have another person involved. Imagine if you killed someone.
I pretty much view it as drinking and driving. I think if you're old and responsible enough to smoke, you should be responsible enough to drive sober, even if you know you can drive high.
I'm not saying that people are unable to drive high, I'm just saying that there's literally no point in being high while driving because you can risk your own life, people in your car, or some other random person.
And if you can't handle waiting 10 minutes to go home to smoke, that sounds like you have a problem.
Let's just say that weed makes you have a 1% higher chance of an accident, that's still non-0. And then let's say that you're a part of that 1%. If you weren't high you wouldn't have had an accident, and now you probably have another person involved. Imagine if you killed someone.
I pretty much view it as drinking and driving. I think if you're old and responsible enough to smoke, you should be responsible enough to drive sober, even if you know you can drive high.
I'm not saying that people are unable to drive high, I'm just saying that there's literally no point in being high while driving because you can risk your own life, people in your car, or some other random person.
And if you can't handle waiting 10 minutes to go home to smoke, that sounds like you have a problem.
EverythingsHazy
Well-Known Member
Since you acknowledge that it's dangerous, I'm curious...
Have you considered how you would feel if you happened to kill someone, such as a small child?
What about how you would feel if someone else who was driving while high ran over your kid or mother?
Would you be any more upset about it than you would be if they were sober?
Polarbearboy
Tokin' Away Since 1968
I am not promoting or defending driving while stoned. I am neither proud nor ashamed of driving while stoned. I'm just sharing the facts.
And absolutely I'd feel terrible if I hurt anyone.
And absolutely I'd feel terrible if I hurt anyone.
Gigsabits53
Well-Known Member
I think you make great points and it's probably the right way of thinking. But here's my question, why do we have to play this stupid game? I mean, aren't we tired of it yet? I know I am, live in an illegal state and it's very annoying that our govt is preventing people from getting cannabis. I'm approaching 60 years old and I have yet to purchase cannabis anywhere legally. It's time for some major changes.
Sorry for the rant.
Driving while high, I dont recommend it. I understand that many people can do it and some people may even need cannabis to drive, but I dont do it....anymore. I have done it but I do not like doing it.
Stay safe everyone!
howie105
Well-Known Member
We don't "have to" there are usually a range of reactions to chose from. We just have to be willing to live with their results.
Its like mosquitoes, once you get a handle on them they are just an occasional and momentary distraction.
I have lived in nothing but dark states all my life and have never had a problem getting pot with the exception for the early 70's and with one noticeable exception no legal hassles. We all find our own ways.
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ataxian
PALE BLUE DOT
I haven’t driven since I was told I have ATAXIA?
My love of car’s is replaced by vaporizer’s?
Growing is fun right where you live!
NORTH or SOUTH CANNABIS grow’s without secret methods!
In the 70’s super cropping is how we hide from the HELICOPTER
3 of the acres of beach front is all lazy ass surfer’s could handle?
At least it was free back in time?
Now money is the motivation?
Driving suck’s!
EverythingsHazy
Well-Known Member
I believe that you'd feel bad if you hurt anyone. I am just curious if you'd feel any worse if you did so while under the influence of Cannabis, or if you consider that factor to be insignificant.
yogurtsauce
Well-Known Member
I’d feel significantly worse if I was high, than if I was sober.
reasoning: now I have a dui, and it’s completely my fault for driving high
floribud
Well-Known Member
I'm sure if I'm stoned I don't have the reflexes to react as quickly in an emergency situation. BUT, I'm also much less of a dick. When people do annoying things, my mind is always saying "just let it go", when I'm sober I'm more likely to be saying "fuck that asshole!". So on the whole, being slightly stoned I'm less likely to drive like an asshole, BUT I'm not as good as avoiding split second "out of nowhere" situations.
EverythingsHazy
Well-Known Member
If there was no legal restriction, and no DUI, would you disregard the fact that you were high?
I'm not trying to trap you, or prove anything. I am just curious about the way people who have various stances on this matter are thinking and shaping their beliefs.
yogurtsauce
Well-Known Member
Nah. The weed would still make me fee substantially worse. Constant what-ifs.
What if I wasn’t high?
What if it was me being high that caused the accident?
What if I was sober, would I have then not got into the accident?
I am a man of science. If you take all of the drivers on the road, the majority is all the same, sober.
So when you’re high, you’re the outlier, because the majority of drivers are sober. So if you compare yourself to the average driver, what factor is different? You’re high.
If I drive around in bald tires and rear and someone because I couldn’t break in time, do I disregard the bald tires? I can totally drive on the bald tires, but should I?
The question for everyone in here isn’t whether driving high is right or wrong, because right and wrong is only subjective unless it’s governed. The real question is WHY do you drive high and support driving high. Why do you not drive high, and not support it?
Tranquility
Well-Known Member
While I understand your point, driving on bald tires is illegal in most states.
The real issue is, why do we just have one speed limit on the roadways? Each sign should have at least three speeds. One for inexperienced but the ninja reaction of youth, one for experienced and ninja reaction and one for experienced and old guy. While I might be able to react in near the same time frame as a young driver who does not recognize the danger as soon as I do, I can't match a 30 year old who's been driving at least a decade. Why is our speed limits the same?
C No Ego
Well-Known Member
the same reason we have one dollar to rule them all ... equality
yogurtsauce
Well-Known Member
Driving high is illegal in all US States
Since not many people have been posting facts and only anecdotal evidence, I will start. I will be posting facts that show how marijuana usage can affect driving, or how it can’t. No bias.
Source 1: The US Gov has known that weed impairs driving since 1993 .https://rosap.ntl.bts.gov/view/dot/1558/dot_1558_DS1.pdf?download-document-submit=Download
Source 2: "...the 3.3% THC dose increased body sway but did not affect brake latency." 2002.
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00213-002-1124-0
Source 3: "The unadjusted odds ratio for THC was 1.25, representing a significantly elevated risk of crashing by about 1.25 times or 25 percent. These unadjusted odds ratios must be interpreted with caution as they do not account for other factors that may contribute to increased crash risk. Other factors, such as demographic variables, have been shown to have a significant effect on crash risk. For example, male drivers have a higher crash rate than female drivers. Likewise, young drivers have a higher crash rate
26
than older drivers. To the extent that these demographic variables are correlated with specific types of drug use, they may account for some of the increased crash risk associated with drug use." Page 25-26, paragraph 4, and 1 with respect to page numbers. 2017.
https://rosap.ntl.bts.gov/view/dot/34995
Source 4: "Visual search frequency in these subjects did not change when they were treated with alcohol or marijuana alone. However, when treated with the combination of alcohol and marijuana, the frequency of visual search dropped by 3%. Performance as rated on the Driving Proficiency Scale did not differ between treatments. It was concluded that the effects of low doses of THC (100 μg/kg) and alcohol (BAC < 0.05 g/dl) on higher‐level driving skills as measured in the present study are minimal."
Summary: If you lick alcohol, you won't get drunk. If you smell weed, you won't get high. No shit it won't impair your driving. (For the people who are gonna argue that driving isn't affected.) 2001.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/hup.307
Source 5: "Alcohol significantly increased accelerator, brake, signal, speedometer and total errors but only the speedometer measure showed increased errors under marijuana. This increase suggests that the principal effect of marijuana was to reduce the time that subjects spent monitoring the speedometer." pg 175 paragraph 2
HOWEVER,
"The lack of marijuana effects may have been due in part to the doses being much smaller than were originally thought. Rafaelsen et al. (1973) reported that other workers who examined the same batch of marijuana suggested the subjects received doses of 3 to 8 mg rather than 22 mg THC." 175 paragraph 3
"The higher cannabis doses and the alcohol dose significantly increased brake time and start time. One of the subjects on the 12-mg-THC dose passed 8 out of 10 red lights without activating the brake pedal at all. The 16-mg-THC dose also increased start time. The number of gear changes significantly increased with alcohol and tended to decrease, but not significantly so, with cannabis. Neither drug affected mean speed." 176 paragraph 1
These are all simulations BTW.
"Both the alcohol and the higher dose of mari- juana were found to result in poorer car handling performance with significantly more cones being hit under these conditions. Under the higher mari- j uana dose, driving speed was reduced compared to placebo. The difference was small but consistent. In the second trial, three hours after treatment, differences among conditions were slight." 197 paragraph 4 THIS IS THE REAL WORLD DRIVING.
And this quote is for all of the people that drive more safe while high.
"In conclusion, marijuana impairs driving behavior. However, this impairment is mitigated in that subjects under marijuana treatment appear to perceive that they are indeed impaired. Where they can compensate, they do, for example by not overtaking, by slowing down and by focusing their attention when they know a response will be required. Such compensation is not possible, however, where events are unexpected or where continuous attention is required. Effects on driving behavior are present up to an hour after smoking but do not continue for extended periods." 187-88 last p and first p.
https://komornlaw.com/wp-content/up...ffects-of-cannabis-9780888683250.pdf#page=188
I challenge every person to find a peer reviewed article about the effects of driving high on marijuana.
Use this site if you don't have access to any other databases
https://scholar.google.com/
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Tranquility
Well-Known Member
Before disgorging disconnected facts with no context, you might want to frame what you're trying to say.
THE report summarizing the studies as of 2017 is at:
https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.d...juana-impaired-driving-report-to-congress.pdf
For a governmental report, it seems pretty fair.
yogurtsauce
Well-Known Member
you just put a link that I had already linked. I also put the source there so that the reader can get their own conclusion from the data presented. The fact that it came up that my data was taken out of contexts comes to show me that no one is gonna read the sources.
Not only that, but I did not omit the part where it says just because we have the data, doesn’t make it right because of other variables. You cherry picked my quote out of context and then said I was cherry picking. Nice.
Instead of criticizing and adding nothing, why not just go into the source provided, and pull out quotes that help support your argument? That’s what the link is there for. To supply context. I also point out where specifically in the source did I pull that quote.
In fact, the epilepsy (...) was made so that we can skip irrelevant content.
I fully encourage arguments about this subject. I just wish that there were more things than anecdotal evidence, and just telling people they’re wrong without input.
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Tranquility
Well-Known Member
Right. That's why I said you need to frame what you're trying to say. I've read as many, if not more, studies than you on the issue. They come down different ways no matter how fine you want to look at them. No one is going to read your links until you claim they mean something. What do they mean to you?
I "cherry picked" nothing. I made no claim for or against the post I replied to because I don't know your position. I'm not going to read a bunch of links unless someone connects them for me. You have not. Say what you're going to say and, if you think you have proof, link it. (Hint: you don't have proof, they don't have the data.)
To say what? What is your position? Drive while high? Don't? No proof it's bad? Tons of proof?
?
I see a bunch of links in this thread. They can't all reference personal experience.
yogurtsauce
Well-Known Member
My intention for those sources was not to pick a side. But to present facts in an unbiased manner. I’m not spending my time trying to interpreting data that already has been concluded in the conclusion statement. I’m just here to bring the facts on the table, so that readers can digest what they want. If they want to make their own conclusion from the sources they’re free to.
and there is data. The data they collected from real world tests.
Tranquility
Well-Known Member
What does the data tell us? (BTW data =/= proof)
yogurtsauce
Well-Known Member
The data tells us that people drive worse high or drunk.
We have data on being worse at driving. But there is currently no data on being high increasing driving skills, or keeping driving skills the same.
Tranquility
Well-Known Member
The data does not tell us anything of the sort. First, remove the stupid "high or drunk" part. To equate alcohol and cannabis in relation to driving is silly. The risk factors are not nearly the same. As to "no" data, if I look to the first page of the study I linked and you agree with related to impairment:
The same study looked at the speed at which the driver drove relative to the speed limit as a result of marijuana and alcohol use by the drivers. Subjects dosed on marijuana showed reduced mean speeds, increased time driving below the speed limit and increased following distance during a car following task. Alcohol, in contrast was associated with higher mean speeds (over the speed limit), greater variability in speed, and spent a greater percent of time driving above the speed limit. Marijuana had no effect on variability of speed. In the combined alcohol and marijuana condition it appeared that marijuana mitigated some of the effects found with alcohol by reducing the time spent above the speed limit (Hartman, et al., 2016).
Is it an increase or a decrease in driving "skills" to be more likely to follow the speed laws, give increased following distance and to generally drive slower? Safety is certainly improved, but "skills"?